Abal1 wrote: » Hello Friends and study mates. I need your honest opinions regarding the following. First of, I have 6.5 yrs experience working for a large ISP, troubleshooting and repairing DS0 - OC192 from layers 1-3. Therefore, I do lots of MPLS, BGP and other troubleshooting, as well as layer 2 ethernet troubleshooting such as vlans etc... FWSM ASA, NAT, access-lists etc... I have my CCNA and CCNP in R&S and JNCIA. That is my background. Recently I decided to do my CCIE but I'm very indecisive about the CCIE track I should go for. I have access to CCIE lab for R&S and Security at work, but my interest lies in VOICE mainly because of the demand and the pay. BTW I have no voice experience whatsoever. Anyway, after comparing the study topics for all, I came to the conclusion that I can do the VOICE in 1 to 1.5yrs max though I hear voice is harder all the time, I've been reading the CVOICE 6 and some parts of CVOICE v8 and I don't believe it's any harder than R&S. Besides there is less topics and technologies to study for voice than for R&S. But I don't want to base my judgments after only looking some parts of VOICE and thinking it's easy and finding out later on it's harder than I thought, after spending so much time and money on it. Because if I do go with voice I'll have to spend a few grands on lab equipment. So here is you guys role, I need your feedback, experiences, guidance and opinions to help me decide. Thank you all in advance!
Sa'ad wrote: » I see where you're coming from man. Touch one to decide on. I'd probably go for voice just because it's the hottest CCIE now a days and it pays much more, since you care more about what's in demand and pays well.
networker050184 wrote: » Why would you even consider going for a Voice IE if you have no experience with the techonology? If your expereince is in R&S then go for that.
Sirsamon wrote: » I have to smile when people ask these questions, especially ones with experience its very easy to answer what do you want to do ? Also use sound logic not, i might do this as it has less to learn, or i might do this it earns more. (these options have nothing to do with it). its all about what do you want to do and love to do. anything else you will get bored or disillusioned and not be happy.
shodown wrote: » I think voice is hard cause I dont have my CCVP and I have years of experience from small 10 seat CME systems all the way up to multi cluster 30,000 seat global systems, so I question guys who get it with no real work experience or access to a serious lab. Its a technology that really builds on previous underlying things being done, and with R&S when its not configured right you get no IP reachability, with voice it may not be until high call volume or ever 10th call. You add in all the applications, like IM, Call Center, Voicemail it gets messy really fast. With that said, most guys who I knew took the lab always fail because of time.
sieff wrote: » @Abal1 - Have you considering CCIE - Service Provider at all? I've worked for an ISP before as well and I would think a CCIE-SP would definitely demand a promotion and lead to a position in the ISP Backbone provisioning and design side.
instant000 wrote: » I honestly think you're looking at this the wrong way. You admitted to having lab access to the equipment for the r&s AND the security tracks at work. You admitted to having YEARS of experience in the R&S and Security tracks. You admitted to having ZERO voice experience. Also, the only reason voice is in so big demand right now is that tons of people are realizing that they need to go VOIP, so during this phase, they are working at transitioning from their old PBX to a VOIP system. For this reason, they want the Voice Experts. I can see this providing work for the next few years, mainly because companies are finally seeing the logic to going VOIP. Do not worry, just like they realized they didn't necessarily need an MCSE to run their servers, they will eventually realize they don't need an IE Voice to run their voice. (Though it's nice to have during the migration/setup.) What is readily apparent, though, is that regardless of whatever fads come into play: Voice, Wireless, etc., the foundation of it all is in routing&switching, as EVERYTHING rides on top of that. You can have routing and switching without voice, but you CANNOT have voice without routing and switching. The same for Wireless, and anything else you want to tack on top. The next big fad will probably be IPv6 (if they're smart, they're on top of this already). I can forecast this providing work for the next ten or twenty years, easily, as organizations will likely run dual-stack for several years before finally transitioning over to full IPv6 (if ever). Now, if you WANT to do this, AND you cannot be swayed in any manner, then go ahead and do it. It's just hard for us to recommend striking into something you lack experience in, that is not foundational, when you have years of experience in foundational topics.
Abal1 wrote: » Recently I decided to do my CCIE but I'm very indecisive about the CCIE track I should go for. I have access to CCIE lab for R&S and Security at work, but my interest lies in VOICE mainly because of the demand and the pay. BTW I have no voice experience whatsoever.
Turgon wrote: » Do CCIE in R&S, every other CCIE is overated IMHO as they all build on it. Cisco is not no 1 on SP/Voice/Storage/Wireless.
Sett wrote: » I don't agree with the SP part. Most of the ISPs out there are using CRS in their core and it has proven to be very fast and reliable platform. It's a little subjective, but for me it's better then any of the competitive products. There are other series which are popular within the ISPs like GSRs, ASRs. Imo Cisco is strong in the SP market but it's definitely behind in the other segments(Voice, WiFi...) Overall CCIE:SP is valuable cert to have but it makes more sense to take the R&S first.
Forsaken_GA wrote: » Cisco is certainly a player in the SP market, but their market share has been shrinking. Juniper has been giving them a rough time. They've still pretty much got the Enterprise market locked down, but others are making inroads into their margins as well. There's a reason folks like Dell and HP are buying storage and networking companies - they want to offer complete end to end enterprise solutions. Which isn't to say pursuing CCIE's is bad. Competition is a *good* thing in the market place. Hopefully it'll get Cisco out off whatever their smoking and make them realize they need to cut their profit margin a bit if they want to stay competitive.
Forsaken_GA wrote: » Your motivation is seeking voice is where I question whether it's the best track for you. You seem to have plenty of R&S experience, so I think you already have a good foundation there, so you don't necessarily need to pursue that track. If you were completely new to the network world and didn't have a solid R&S base, I'd also be telling you to go for R&S first, and you'd be insane if you didn't (or very, very gifted).
Abal1 wrote: » Thanks for your kind words Forsaken, I decided to go with R&S a few times but I always ended getting bored with the study material and topics and it just seems interminable. So I checked voice like a month ago for the first time and boy I was very impressed. I like reading more about voice now than I do R&S. So yeah I decided to do the CCNA-V to see if this is what I really want to do for the next few years or not. If I don't like it, then I will not have lost no more than 2-3 months hopefully. But if I go for the CCVP that will require me more time and money. If I'm gona do the CCVP then I'll have to do the CCIE whether I like it or not because by then I will have invested a lot money and time in voice.
Sirsamon wrote: » So its looks like i am right so far, you are going with CCNA voice to see if you like it or back to R&S.
MrBrian wrote: » What a fun story to read. Sounds like it definitely could apply to Abal1 too. Like you said, definitely not the framework for building experience/knowledge for everyone. However, I agree there is a pocket out there for people that this would work with. Just a brutal onslaught of expert level topics, labbing, troubleshooting.. relentlessly until you get it. If your story's true (cause who really knows right?), than right on.. bottom line is you had a goal and then achieved it. The desire and ambition is respectable. I myself have an inkling to make "big bucks," or at least what I would consider an above average salary. Not trying to toot my own horn at all, but just describing myself (as many here are probably similar): I have a respectable IQ.. strong logic.. good at math.. etc My contention is that there's no right way for every person. Do what you want, but be aware of the consequences (i.e. not having real world experience). Just for the record though, going for CCIE before a job, yeah I think that's crazy. Not as much as the fact that you'll be missing real-world experience (which is bad, but hey, if you bang your head enough through elaborate labs that you create on your own equipment, than you've got some experience in tow), but more for the fact that you'll be missing out on $$$ the whole time you're studying for the CCIE. But I think it would be interesting to look at the comparison of someone attempting their CCIE while working full-time, to someone who does not work, but studies 8-9 hours every day. You can't really underestimate how rapidly one can learn topics while studying all day with no job. Now let me say, rushing through topics is a completely different story. I'm talking about someone reading various books on the technology at hand, not just a Cisco certification book. Endless research plus labbing. It's almost like a person going for their Masters while in school full-time, compared to someone working while taking a night class here and there, chipping away at the Masters (not a perfect comparison at all I know, but still). Let me be clear, I don't suggest going for the IE before a job at all. But I wouldn't knock someone for dedicating themselves like that. It all would come down to, can they catch on in the workplace. My opinion would be yes, they'll catch on much much quicker than a CCNA or CCNP would, but that's the kind of pay they might have to start at. Either way, they'll have to prove themselves on the battlefield, that's what it all comes down to. Bottom line, if you want it, go for it wholeheartedly, and take no prisoners. Leave no stone unturned. Tell yourself "I won't burn out, I won't burn out" over and over.. and then you might trick yourself into not burning out . Sometimes you have to deceive yourself for your own personal gain, lol.
