Job Opportunity- Dilemma

darkerz

The job? Lab Engineer at Microsoft, main campus.

Hold on, put down the beers and fireworks.

The dilemma?

The staffing firm called me 2 times in 1 day, 1 was a HR interview, 1 was a technical screening. Now I'm due for a in person interview tomorrow.

The tricky part..

They really, really want to contact my current manager.

I feel uncomfortable. I have dealt with these firms and recruiters before. I know it's not a done deal until "their client" interviews me and I sign a paper.

What should I do? My experience in my current job is what got me the attention. If my manager keys in, all of a sudden, I fear losing my job. But, this is with Microsoft. One of the 3 companies I would jump ship for.

Gah.

Help??

Psoasman

Do you want to leave your current job at Microsoft? You are going to have to weigh the pros /cons of staying with Microsoft or taking chance on the other company. If your manager does find out and you don't get the new job, it could get difficult for you.
Personally, if I had a job at Microsoft, it'd take something substantial to tear me away from it.

nicklauscombs

Psoasman wrote: »

Personally, if I had a job at Microsoft, it'd take something substantial to tear me away from it.

the job being offered is with microsoft.

nicklauscombs

darkerz wrote: »

What should I do?

if you let them contact your current manager you have to go out guns blazing. i don't think i could stay at the old job if the new job didn't pan out.

cygnus21

That is a tough situation. I think if I were in that situation I would speak with my manager first and let him know what was being offered. Let him know that it is something you are seriously considering, and that you are letting him know out of respect for him and your current company, and not to start a bidding war. That way they can be prepared if you do get the offer. Also reassure them that you would give appropriate notice before leaving if that is what you decided to do.

Of course I am assuming that this was a headhunter that contacted you, and not something you actively looked for. if I am wrong in that assumption then it is a different story.

powerfool

I wouldn't let them contact your current manager, if I was you.

Now, if you decide to go for it and let them contact your manager, go with cygnus21's approach. Let your boss know that they contacted you and that you want to see where it goes. Keep things on the up and up, as best possible. If you do this, however, I wouldn't wait for Microsoft to offer you a job... I would start looking for other opportunities, right away. No telling if you will be let go shortly... and if you aren't let go, do you really want to stay at a place after that?

cyberguypr

powerfool wrote: »

I wouldn't let them contact your current manager, if I was you.

Now, if you decide to go for it and let them contact your manager, go with cygnus21's approach. Let your boss know that they contacted you and that you want to see where it goes. Keep things on the up and up, as best possible. If you do this, however, I wouldn't wait for Microsoft to offer you a job... I would start looking for other opportunities, right away. No telling if you will be let go shortly... and if you aren't let go, do you really want to stay at a place after that?

This. If you prove you know what you claim via interviews and references I don't see how not contacting your current manager can be a deal breaker for them. Only way I would accept contacting my manager is after they present an offer. If the Microsoft thing doesn't pan out and you can afford potentially being let go, then allowing contact now would not be a big deal. For me this is one of those principle things like not giving SSN and not listening to counteroffers after resigning.

universalfrost

one word of caution. I have heard this time and time again from almost everyone that I have met that works or worked for Microsoft.

Microsoft is very cut throat when it comes to the work enviornment. basically don't trust anyone except yourself. Someone is always out to get you so that they can then look good to the bosses.

I know that this might seem the norm at some companies, but I personally would not want to work in that type of environment. The first few times i heard this I thought the guys were just disgruntled or very timid (one of the programmers was a very very big introvert), but I kept hearing it over and over again from close to 90% of the folks I met that were working for or had worked for MS.

Maybe your section will be different. Just my 2 cents.

petedude

universalfrost wrote: »

Microsoft is very cut throat when it comes to the work enviornment. basically don't trust anyone except yourself. Someone is always out to get you so that they can then look good to the bosses.

Don't you hate that?

I have seen those sorts of environments lately. Nasty, nasty places to work. And hearing what you've said about M$, that explains why some sharp folks I've met left M$.

Everyone

darkerz wrote: »

The staffing firm....

I have dealt with these firms and recruiters before. I know it's not a done deal until "their client" interviews me and I sign a paper.

This threw up a red flag for me.

Microsoft has their own recruiters. They do have a contract with a company called "Search Wizards", however they act as Microsoft employees, all of their communications will come from an @microsoft.com address. When they call you, they will always identify themselves as being with Microsoft. If you are working with any other 3rd party firm, I would run.

Microsoft follows a pretty standard interview process. Recruiter will call you, do a phone screening. If you pass the phone screening, they will send you a link to fill out a pretty simple/standard application. After that the next step is usually a technical interview. If you pass the technical interview, the next step is usually an interview with the hiring manager, that will cover more behavioral/HR type questions.

I've been through their process a couple times for "Premier Field Engineer" positions in different divisions. The process was very similar each time, only varying slightly. I've made it all the way to the end each time and been told that it was down to me and 1 other person.

In my experiences, their recruiters have been very nice and very helpful. They gave me very valuable feedback after each interview, and often gave me advice on how to prepare for the next interview. I've never had one demand to speak with a current manager. In fact the last time I went through this process with them, I intentionally left that field BLANK on my application. I didn't even give a phone number for my current employer, because I didn't want my current employer to know I was looking for a new job. I was never even asked about it. They did call the references I gave though.

Everyone

universalfrost wrote: »

one word of caution. I have heard this time and time again from almost everyone that I have met that works or worked for Microsoft.

Microsoft is very cut throat when it comes to the work enviornment. basically don't trust anyone except yourself. Someone is always out to get you so that they can then look good to the bosses.

I know that this might seem the norm at some companies, but I personally would not want to work in that type of environment. The first few times i heard this I thought the guys were just disgruntled or very timid (one of the programmers was a very very big introvert), but I kept hearing it over and over again from close to 90% of the folks I met that were working for or had worked for MS.

Maybe your section will be different. Just my 2 cents.

I think it depends on the division. I've heard some say that the "politics" were a downside to working there, which may go along with what you're saying. However I've heard far more positives, and despite the fact that nobody seems to like their upper management (i.e. Steve Ballmer) right now, most seem to really enjoy working there. It's also been consistently ranked as a top place to work at by several places.

blargoe

Everyone wrote: »

I think it depends on the division. I've heard some say that the "politics" were a downside to working there, which may go along with what you're saying. However I've heard far more positives, and despite the fact that nobody seems to like their upper management (i.e. Steve Ballmer) right now, most seem to really enjoy working there. It's also been consistently ranked as a top place to work at by several places.

I hear the same kinds of things from Microsoft employees or former employees, but to be honest most of the people I've interacted with have been in the PFE role or an Account Manager. One thing that always comes up in conversation is that management tends to want to shift people into a different role after a couple or three years at most so they don't burn out.

Everyone

blargoe wrote: »

I hear the same kinds of things from Microsoft employees or former employees, but to be honest most of the people I've interacted with have been in the PFE role or an Account Manager. One thing that always comes up in conversation is that management tends to want to shift people into a different role after a couple or three years at most so they don't burn out.

Most of my interactions have been with PFEs and TAMs too. PFE sounds like one of the more desirable jobs. Most of the PFEs I've talked to have been a PFE for 5-10+ years.

Turgon

darkerz wrote: »

The job? Lab Engineer at Microsoft, main campus.

Hold on, put down the beers and fireworks.

The dilemma?

The staffing firm called me 2 times in 1 day, 1 was a HR interview, 1 was a technical screening. Now I'm due for a in person interview tomorrow.

The tricky part..

They really, really want to contact my current manager.

I feel uncomfortable. I have dealt with these firms and recruiters before. I know it's not a done deal until "their client" interviews me and I sign a paper.

What should I do? My experience in my current job is what got me the attention. If my manager keys in, all of a sudden, I fear losing my job. But, this is with Microsoft. One of the 3 companies I would jump ship for.

Gah.

Help??

Not a chance. Nobody contacts your manager until you have a written offer of employment on the table. If anyone objects to this, run away..far far away. You might not get an offer from Microsoft and you will have blown your cover and maybe even future job prospects out of the water in the company you presently work for. Can you really afford for your next paycheck to be at the whim of an employer who you are counting on to be reasonable about things? They care not a jot about your career plans.

ptilsen

If Bill Gates and Linus Torvalds resurrected Steve Jobs, founded a start-up together, interviewed me for a job and asked to speak to my current manager before offering me the job, I would probably decline them.

erpadmin

cyberguypr wrote: »

This. If you prove you know what you claim via interviews and references I don't see how not contacting your current manager can be a deal breaker for them. Only way I would accept contacting my manager is after they present an offer. If the Microsoft thing doesn't pan out and you can afford potentially being let go, then allowing contact now would not be a big deal. For me this is one of those principle things like not giving SSN and not listening to counteroffers after resigning.

+1!

It is job (if not career) suicide to have a potential company contact a current manager (even if you're on great terms with him/her) WITHOUT having a written offer in-hand.

I don't care what company it is, be firm and tell them heck no. Especially if this is a 3rd party firm.

thenjduke

I would tell them no. Why ruin your current situation for a situation that is not 100% offered?

Ryan82

I'm pretty sure in my paperwork it mentioned that they wouldn't contact my references unless that was the final step towards producing an offer letter. This wasn't through any sort of third party though so your experience may be different. In fact to my knowledge they never contacted any of my references at any point. Perhaps you could provide them previous employers reference info and they would be satisfied with that if you are uncomfortable with providing your current employers info.

darkerz

Hey guys, just an update.

I decided to cut ties with the recruiter, I did not like the way she handled business nor reacted to my reasonable conditions of "you can contact previous references, look up education records and see my current documentation with xxxxx to observe my job duties and title, pay, etc". My previous references were more than happy, and since my last gig was a competing agency, the recruiter had to sign a non-disclosure to verify my employment... Pretty simple, right?

Well, I guess not.

There will be other opportunities, but from now on... I think I'll avoid recruiters. They are slime.

Now I see where that view comes from on here.

Sort of sad, the job was a perfect fit and geographically walkable even.

Onwards to better things! (CCNP, Security +, and B.S. in IT)

erpadmin

darkerz wrote: »

Hey guys, just an update.

I decided to cut ties with the recruiter, I did not like the way she handled business nor reacted to my reasonable conditions of "you can contact previous references, look up education records and see my current documentation with xxxxx to observe my job duties and title, pay, etc". My previous references were more than happy, and since my last gig was a competing agency, the recruiter had to sign a non-disclosure to verify my employment... Pretty simple, right?

Well, I guess not.

There will be other opportunities, but from now on... I think I'll avoid recruiters. They are slime.

Now I see where that view comes from on here.

Sort of sad, the job was a perfect fit and geographically walkable even.

Onwards to better things! (CCNP, Security +, and B.S. in IT)

Smart man!

Seriously, you are not the first nor last guy who has seen the light on recruiters. Usually those who haven't are those who haven't dealt with them. Just remember this: if the recruiter is an IN-HOUSE recruiter, that's when you show the utmost respect/formality as they are an extension of HR. An out-house recruiter (hey, I actually like that term....it fits!) you can pretty much turn off that formality and lay down the law. If they don't play ball, you can tell them what to do with themselves. (That type of treatment will only fly when you are currently employed. When you're not employed, that treatment will get done to you....lol. But when you're currently employed, the ball is certainly in your court!)

cyberguypr

darkerz wrote: »

I think I'll avoid recruiters. They are slime.

That's bumper sticker material right there.

jmritenour

darkerz wrote: »

There will be other opportunities, but from now on... I think I'll avoid recruiters. They are slime.

Very true. People are an organization's most valuable resource - I wouldn't want to work for a company that takes a hands off approach to the recruitment/hiring process anyway.