Is it still worth studying computer science in the UK?

UnixGuy

Let's discuss this

Is it still worth studying computer science in the UK? | TechRepublic


Opinions ?

Turgon

UnixGuy wrote: »

Let's discuss this

Is it still worth studying computer science in the UK? | TechRepublic


Opinions ?

Yes. Having a science degree always has weight later in your career. I have worked with a lot of people with good jobs who have computer science, physics or electrical or electronic degrees.

UnixGuy

Turgon wrote: »

Yes. Having a science degree always has weight later in your career. I have worked with a lot of people with good jobs who have computer science, physics or electrical or electronic degrees.

I noticed a serious difference in this regard between the UK and the US. In the US, if you have a degree from places like MIT or Carnegie Mellon, you will get good employment, and a great level of knowledge is expected from those graduates. However in the UK, I noticed that degrees from places like Cambridge/Oxford or King College London or Manchester Uni don't carry the same weight in the UK like top-tier degrees in the US, or am I wrong?

Turgon

UnixGuy wrote: »

I noticed a serious difference in this regard between the UK and the US. In the US, if you have a degree from places like MIT or Carnegie Mellon, you will get good employment, and a great level of knowledge is expected from those graduates. However in the UK, I noticed that degrees from places like Cambridge/Oxford or King College London or Manchester Uni don't carry the same weight in the UK like top-tier degrees in the US, or am I wrong?

Yes you are wrong. You cant beat a solid science degree from any University, especially those you listed. Once you have some good years of experience in having that academic background will set you well placed for senior jobs.

UnixGuy

Turgon wrote: »

Yes you are wrong. You cant beat a solid science degree from any University, especially those you listed. Once you have some good years of experience in having that academic background will set you well placed for senior jobs.

I agree on the general science part. But my point here "Computer Science" and specialized Computer science degrees from those top-tier universities in the UK, they don't provide immediate employment in the UK like the top-tier degrees from the United States seems to provide some sort of higher chances of decent employment plus a good foundation/technical knowledge BEFORE having those years of experience. Is this is true ? I think that's part of what the article is arguing about, and I kind of agree.

Don't get me wrong, Cambridge is my dream university for postgrad, but for undergrad, maybe things are little bit different?

Turgon

UnixGuy wrote: »

I agree on the general science part. But my point here "Computer Science" and specialized Computer science degrees from those top-tier universities in the UK, they don't provide immediate employment in the UK like the top-tier degrees from the United States seems to provide some sort of higher chances of decent employment plus a good foundation/technical knowledge BEFORE having those years of experience. Is this is true ? I think that's part of what the article is arguing about, and I kind of agree.

Don't get me wrong, Cambridge is my dream university for postgrad, but for undergrad, maybe things are little bit different?

I did some post grad work at Cambridge. It helps but I have to say I didn't hawk it when applying for IT jobs as I didn't get a degree out of my brief stint there..

Immediate chances of work in the UK for graduates will be restricted to graduates with first class honours degrees from the top Universities. The rest will have to apply for graduate jobs and take their chances. Many will end up working call centres until they can get out. I was a contract network designer at O2 for six months and I can tell you that the cubes were full of graduates with degrees in everything..

But in the longer term, once you have some experience, having that science degree will impress people when you apply for senior jobs.

UnixGuy

Turgon wrote: »

I did some post grad work at Cambridge. It helps but I have to say I didn't hawk it when applying for IT jobs as I didn't get a degree out of my brief stint there..

Immediate chances of work in the UK for graduates will be restricted to graduates with first class honours degrees from the top Universities. The rest will have to apply for graduate jobs and take their chances. Many will end up working call centres until they can get out. I was a contract network designer at O2 for six months and I can tell you that the cubes were full of graduates with degrees in everything..

But in the longer term, once you have some experience, having that science degree will impress people when you apply for senior jobs.

Interesting yes I guess, it's almost everywhere like that I guess. I think that the recent change of curriculum in Computer Science degrees (as the article referenced) is mandatory, as some *top* schools have outdated topics.

The point here, a graduate from a top-tier university doesn't necessarily have to work in cubes, they can and should be taught high level IT work. True, experience is required, but not everyone should go all the way up from cubes, that's the point of intense education - internships - projects- homeworks..etc. Theory is a must, but there's plenty room for serious practical work too. Just my opinion..

Turgon

UnixGuy wrote: »

Interesting yes I guess, it's almost everywhere like that I guess. I think that the recent change of curriculum in Computer Science degrees (as the article referenced) is mandatory, as some *top* schools have outdated topics.

The point here, a graduate from a top-tier university doesn't necessarily have to work in cubes, they can and should be taught high level IT work. True, experience is required, but not everyone should go all the way up from cubes, that's the point of intense education - internships - projects- homeworks..etc. Theory is a must, but there's plenty room for serious practical work too. Just my opinion..

I agree and thats why you should aim to be top of the class and go on to research which can lead to fine jobs or look at a degree with a year in industry. Unfortunately for many graduates the jobs just aren't there at the moment, but as I say..10 years down the line having a good science degree will count.

UnixGuy

Turgon wrote: »

I agree and thats why you should aim to be top of the class and go on to research which can lead to fine jobs or look at a degree with a year in industry. Unfortunately for many graduates the jobs just aren't there at the moment, but as I say..10 years down the line having a good science degree will count.

This is true in most places in the world that I know of. Interesting though, I noticed that postgrad degrees from France have a mandatory 6-months internship PLUS and a thesis that should be done at a company. This is like a year of employment and a valuable experience IMHO.

GAngel

Computer science is one of the few degrees that make you marketable in any country. Like accounting and engineering it transcends borders. The UK is still considered the second best place in the world to get a degree after the US and the big unis there still have a large alumni network of very successful grads. In canada, Aus and the mid east where I've worked they are all very well regarded and they've always been well regarded in the U.S. All the top professors at UK and US universities rotate anyways it's the same material from leaders in the field.

ChooseLife

GAngel wrote: »

The UK is still considered the second best place in the world to get a degree after the US and the big unis there still have a large alumni network of very successful grads. In canada, Aus and the mid east where I've worked they are all very well regarded and they've always been well regarded in the U.S.

Thanks for this comment. Lately I have been considering getting a Master's degree in UK, rather than US/Canada (I'm in Canada). One big concern I had is how much recognition/respect this degree would receive once I am back to North America. Others' comments, supporting or opposing GAngel's opinion would be appreciated. The main reason for me to do in UK is to live in Europe for some time...

alxx

UnixGuy wrote: »

This is true in most places in the world that I know of. Interesting though, I noticed that postgrad degrees from France have a mandatory 6-months internship PLUS and a thesis that should be done at a company. This is like a year of employment and a valuable experience IMHO.

Thats what they do here(Aus) for undergrad Engineering degrees, one year experience made up of two six month internships , not compulsory at all uni's yet was at the one I'm study at. Science students are also encouraged to do internships but not compulsory yet.

Going to be a big lack of physicists here soon as very few are studying it.
Forensics ,chemistry ,make up the bulk of science students,then environmental science followed by nanotech then with materials and physics a long way down.

Finished my last physics subject last semester and there were 9 of us in the class.Compared to 100+ in final year chemistry subjects. Physics isn't promoted in a sexy way (no TV shows like CSI).

erpadmin

alxx wrote: »

Thats what they do here(Aus) for undergrad Engineering degrees, one year experience made up of two six month internships , not compulsory at all uni's yet was at the one I'm study at. Science students are also encouraged to do internships but not compulsory yet.

Going to be a big lack of physicists here soon as very few are studying it.
Forensics ,chemistry ,make up the bulk of science students,then environmental science followed by nanotech then with materials and physics a long way down.

Finished my last physics subject last semester and there were 9 of us in the class.Compared to 100+ in final year chemistry subjects. Physics isn't promoted in a sexy way (no TV shows like CSI).

I'm a big Star Trek fan, and believe it or not, it was Star Trek that got me interested in physics and got me sold on taking it in high school. (Much of the psuedo-technical stuff is based on the fundamentals of physics.)

In college (well...pre-WGU), I took a Chemistry in Criminal Forensics class just for fun (free elective). This was pre-CSI, other cop(per) shows that deal with forensics. I actually learned a lot in that class as well...but I have to stress that CSI did not exist at the time.

I think physics will become "sexy" again when quantum computing becomes a reality. Quantum computing is quite promising...

alxx

one of my coworkers is doing her PhD on quantum wires and the husband of another workmate works in the same lab(another uni) on vacuum physics.

I'm more an engineer than physicist (not that I've finished either yet).

Did the double degree as it had a lower entry mark than either Applied Physics or Engineering

erpadmin

ChooseLife wrote: »

Thanks for this comment. Lately I have been considering getting a Master's degree in UK, rather than US/Canada (I'm in Canada). One big concern I had is how much recognition/respect this degree would receive once I am back to North America. Others' comments, supporting or opposing GAngel's opinion would be appreciated. The main reason for me to do in UK is to live in Europe for some time...

I can't see a UK degree not being a respected degree in North America (US, Canada and yes, even Mexico.) Especially one from Cambridge or Oxford, but I'm sure the other universities are quite good. The only thing I'd hate though (which you being a Queen's subject won't have a problem with) would be writing in Queen's English. It's not even so much adding the letter "u" to certain words that would bother me, but even the syntax is different, like "Do you have a pen?" vs. "Have you a pen?" Still...I, as an American, would totally respect a UK degree. I see so many central Asians coming to North America with their degrees from their countries and they don't have a problem. (And yes....their country...they didn't all study in England, the US, Canada, etc...)

ChooseLife

erpadmin wrote: »

I can't see a UK degree not being a respected degree in North America (US, Canada and yes, even Mexico.) Especially one from Cambridge or Oxford, but I'm sure the other universities are quite good. The only thing I'd hate though (which you being a Queen's subject won't have a problem with) would be writing in Queen's English. It's not even so much adding the letter "u" to certain words that would bother me, but even the syntax is different, like "Do you have a pen?" vs. "Have you a pen?" Still...I, as an American, would totally respect a UK degree. I see so many central Asians coming to North America with their degrees from their countries and they don't have a problem. (And yes....their country...they didn't all study in England, the US, Canada, etc...)

Thank you for the input, appreciate it!

Presence of "u"s in words does not bother me, their absence does :P

UnixGuy

alxx wrote: »

Thats what they do here(Aus) for undergrad Engineering degrees, one year experience made up of two six month internships , not compulsory at all uni's yet was at the one I'm study at. Science students are also encouraged to do internships but not compulsory yet.

Going to be a big lack of physicists here soon as very few are studying it.
Forensics ,chemistry ,make up the bulk of science students,then environmental science followed by nanotech then with materials and physics a long way down.

Finished my last physics subject last semester and there were 9 of us in the class.Compared to 100+ in final year chemistry subjects. Physics isn't promoted in a sexy way (no TV shows like CSI).

At which uni did you do your undergrad if I may ask? I'm looking at postgrad universities right now and I came across some interesting programs in Aus, but was surprised by the expensive tuition (more expensive than anything in Europe or the US) plus the lack of funding and scholarships is shocking.

alxx wrote: »

.... Physics isn't promoted in a sexy way (no TV shows like CSI).

God bless the big bang theory

UnixGuy

GAngel wrote: »

Computer science is one of the few degrees that make you marketable in any country. Like accounting and engineering it transcends borders. The UK is still considered the second best place in the world to get a degree after the US and the big unis there still have a large alumni network of very successful grads. In canada, Aus and the mid east where I've worked they are all very well regarded and they've always been well regarded in the U.S. All the top professors at UK and US universities rotate anyways it's the same material from leaders in the field.

I agree, but I wasn't negatively surprised by the curriculum of some of the very respectful universities in the UK, however, according to the link I posted above, it seems that the government is upgrading the curriculum. Oxford and Cambridge are still 1st tier universities.

UnixGuy

ChooseLife wrote: »

Thanks for this comment. Lately I have been considering getting a Master's degree in UK, rather than US/Canada (I'm in Canada). One big concern I had is how much recognition/respect this degree would receive once I am back to North America. Others' comments, supporting or opposing GAngel's opinion would be appreciated. The main reason for me to do in UK is to live in Europe for some time...

You can do in UK, and the degrees are great at some universities (be careful when selecting a uni), but since you are from Canada, you will have to pay international students tuition which can be painfully expensive.

If you want to experience Europe, I recommend Germany or Switzerland, the education is almost free (about 600 Euros per semester).

Search European universities here:

Find Master's Studies in Europe - MastersPortal.eu



About recognition in North America, make sure the university is highly ranked. These are the famous ranking schemes:

http://shanghairanking.com/ARWU2011.html

Country guides, course information and university rankings for undergraduate degrees | Top Universities



please let me know if you need further help

ChooseLife

UnixGuy wrote: »

You can do in UK, and the degrees are great at some universities (be careful when selecting a uni), but since you are from Canada, you will have to pay international students tuition which can be painfully expensive.

If you want to experience Europe, I recommend Germany or Switzerland, the education is almost free (about 600 Euros per semester).

Search European universities here:

Find Master's Studies in Europe - MastersPortal.eu



About recognition in North America, make sure the university is highly ranked. These are the famous ranking schemes:

http://shanghairanking.com/ARWU2011.html

Country guides, course information and university rankings for undergraduate degrees | Top Universities



please let me know if you need further help

Much appreciated. A lot of food for thought