How do you compete when you have a family, children, and other constraints?

N2IT

I suppose this post is geared towards the married family folk. How can we compete in a market that is driven by young ambitious professionals who have all the time in the world to study and learn.

I suppose this is a cop out statement, but in all seriousness how do you stay ahead or even just to keep up with the current trends and technologies? Kids have needs too, like assistance with homework, loving reiforcement, after school activities. The wife has needs obviously and we have needs as well. Do we need to stop focusing so much on certifications and accept the credentials we have and be proud of them? Or will this mentality kill us in the long run. Will we be delegated to the software librarian or software tester with this laissez-faire attitude?

networker050184

Its been the opposite in my experience. The single guys are busy partying, playing games etc. while the married guys are home bodies with the time to study. The married guys/gals also have more motivation to better their career.

In the end I think it just comes down to the individual though. If you have the drive to better your career and credentials you will make time for it.

SubnetZero

It's just a balancing act. I somehow managed to to study for the CCIE (which took me two years) with a wife, daughter, and two step kids. It was rough but well worth it in the end.

If you have the ability to study at work take advantage of that. Define your goals and set a schedule for when and how long you will study.

Your family obviously comes first but if you want to stay ahead in this field you have to keep current! Hopefully they understand that...

Good luck!

SubnetZero

networker050184 wrote: »

Its been the opposite in my experience. The single guys are busy partying, playing games etc. while the married guys are home bodies with the time to study. The married guys/gals also have more motivation to better their career.

In the end I think it just comes down to the individual though. If you have the drive to better your career and credentials you will make time for it.

Well said my friend, agree 100%

lunchbox67

What they said ... I got 4 of them at home. Just need to have balance, Danielson.

drkat

Guess it really depends on the home life situation. Some folks work tons of hours and then have a very demanding family life. I have a demanding family life which takes A LOT of my attention - I'm the driver I'm the financial adviser, I'm the bread winner I'm the "supportive husband" - doesn't make for A LOT of time to study after you try to squeeze me time into it. It can be very rough.

lenell86

This is an excellent thread, and I've been wondering the same exact thing. I used to never find the time when my first child was born but as we were able to put him in a schedule, I was able to slowly make more time to studying and eventually passed several certs.

Then my 2nd child was born and the cycle repeated itself, had no time to do ANYTHING school/cert wise. Then slowly got that kid on a schedule and then I started to get more time again to focus on studying. Like the poster said above, we've gotta make time since in my case, I am also the bread maker in the family and my wife understands that I need to keep current to be competitive in this market we are in. I feel bad at times since I really do my best to be the loving husband/father, but oftentimes I feel even the 2-3 hours I do get almost every night is not enough for the goals I'm pursuing. I really did wish I could have focused more in school and took some of the certs I'm studying for now when I was single but I was doing stupid stuff so we all live and learn.

I'll tell you though, starting a family really did kick it up a notch with me and drove my ambitions through the roof. I owe it to my family to succeed which is why I work/study so hard. In the end we really do have to take it as it is and use the time we do have wisely.

Forsaken_GA

It's a matter of discipline, and setting goals. For years, I had the ideas in my head of what I wanted to do, but never really clearly defined it, and always figured there was plenty of time. It was easy to procrastinate and chill out and pick at it, watching alot of tv and playing alot of games, all dosed with liberal helpings of naps and nights out.

It wasn't until I got fed up with not getting anywhere, and sat down and wrote out my goals, and a plan with a timeline on how I was going to get there that I gained any traction. For me, writing it down made it real. The ideas were out of my head, and I had something to which I could be accountable against.

This is why at 10pm, instead of catching up on tv before I go to sleep, I'm waiting on a rack reload so I can continue labbing.

lenell86

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

It's a matter of discipline, and setting goals. For years, I had the ideas in my head of what I wanted to do, but never really clearly defined it, and always figured there was plenty of time. It was easy to procrastinate and chill out and pick at it, watching alot of tv and playing alot of games, all dosed with liberal helpings of naps and nights out.

It wasn't until I got fed up with not getting anywhere, and sat down and wrote out my goals, and a plan with a timeline on how I was going to get there that I gained any traction. For me, writing it down made it real. The ideas were out of my head, and I had something to which I could be accountable against.

This is why at 10pm, instead of catching up on tv before I go to sleep, I'm waiting on a rack reload so I can continue labbing.

Bingo, cutting out the useless crap in our lives, you'd be amazed at what it accomplishes. Great advice!

bababooey1

lenell86 wrote: »

This is an excellent thread, and I've been wondering the same exact thing. I used to never find the time when my first child was born but as we were able to put him in a schedule, I was able to slowly make more time to studying and eventually passed several certs.

Then my 2nd child was born and the cycle repeated itself, had no time to do ANYTHING school/cert wise. Then slowly got that kid on a schedule and then I started to get more time again to focus on studying. Like the poster said above, we've gotta make time since in my case, I am also the bread maker in the family and my wife understands that I need to keep current to be competitive in this market we are in. I feel bad at times since I really do my best to be the loving husband/father, but oftentimes I feel even the 2-3 hours I do get almost every night is not enough for the goals I'm pursuing. I really did wish I could have focused more in school and took some of the certs I'm studying for now when I was single but I was doing stupid stuff so we all live and learn.

I'll tell you though, starting a family really did kick it up a notch with me and drove my ambitions through the roof. I owe it to my family to succeed which is why I work/study so hard. In the end we really do have to take it as it is and use the time we do have wisely.

Even at night, I only ha

Woops, ran out of time

lenell86

LOL oops!

Turgon

lenell86 wrote: »

Bingo, cutting out the useless crap in our lives, you'd be amazed at what it accomplishes. Great advice!

Yup. TV. WoW and all the other nonsense.

All family dynamics vary. Some guys dont see their spouses much as they work different shifts so they have time alone time to study. Others have jobs where there is plenty of slacktime. If that is the case..use it wisely!

For my part, two kids here, one 4 and the other 1. Very little downtime at work to study anything heavy. After work busy with the family. Once the kids are asleep my wife enjoys my company as its been a tiring day for her. Weekends lots of house stuff to catch up on and she rightly wants a hand with the kids having had them all week. Little and often works. Make sure to cover all your commitments and you should find at least 1 hour a day someplace to study something.

petedude

Turgon wrote: »

Little and often works. Make sure to cover all your commitments and you should find at least 1 hour a day someplace to study something.

Amen to all that.

That's one of the reasons a good self-paced college program will work, as well.

Psoasman

I agree that the "young folks" have more time, but my observations is that they don't use it. I am one of the older guys in my dept (36). I spend the bulk of my downtime at work studying.
My wife doesn't work and really wants to continue staying home with the kids. My drive is to allow her to do that. That's one of the reasons I am doing my B.S. in IT. That will allow me to apply for higher level positions and positions where if you don't have that degree, you are not even considered.
We got rid our TV and its a wonder how much extra time you have for family stuff. Since I am fortunate enough to be able to study at work, my time at home is reserved for family.

onesaint

This.

lenell86 wrote: »

I'll tell you though, starting a family really did kick it up a notch with me and drove my ambitions through the roof. I owe it to my family to succeed which is why I work/study so hard. In the end we really do have to take it as it is and use the time we do have wisely.

This.

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

It wasn't until I got fed up with not getting anywhere, and sat down and wrote out my goals, and a plan with a timeline on how I was going to get there that I gained any traction. For me, writing it down made it real. The ideas were out of my head, and I had something to which I could be accountable against.

And this.

Turgon wrote: »

Little and often works. Make sure to cover all your commitments and you should find at least 1 hour a day someplace to study something.

My wife and kids drive me to want to provide accomplish as much as I can, and be a good role model. I set out a 5 year plan and stick to it (even though it gets shuffled around a bit). After the kids home work is done, they are bathed and asleep, the wife and I have some quality time and she goes to bed early. It's then I have study time. Sometimes it's 1 hour and sometimes 3-4 hours. I don't watch TV much, if at all, and video games don't advance my current goals.

Oh, and most important of all, my wife totally supports me in my goals. So, I'm taking a Saturday morning class on Eucalyptus (also doing self study and online courses) and she's taking a painting class in the afternoon. Sunday is family play day (chores get mixed in). We balance and support each other.

Keeping up with current tech? news feeds and pouring over TE for good leads.

ETA: and with that it's 1:40AM and I'm going to be an hour later than I wanted to. LOL.

John355

Hi Guys,
Well, have to say, it should be damn hard for family guys to study and get certified to retain the edge among the competition.
I am 19 myself and have passed the CCNA. I realize from this thread that I should do the bulk of certs before marriage and also the value of free time I have. I hope to utilize it the best.
Cheers!

Forsaken_GA

onesaint wrote: »

My wife and kids drive me to want to provide accomplish as much as I can, and be a good role model. I set out a 5 year plan and stick to it (even though it gets shuffled around a bit). After the kids home work is done, they are bathed and asleep, the wife and I have some quality time and she goes to bed early. It's then I have study time. Sometimes it's 1 hour and sometimes 3-4 hours. I don't watch TV much, if at all, and video games don't advance my current goals.

I got lucky with my girlfriend (who more likely than not is going to end up my wife). She had to do something similar to CCIE lab study when she went for the Professional Engineer exam, so when I explained to her that I was going to need to ignore her for large periods of time, she understood. We worked it out and compromised and she understands that the weekend is for her and the kids entirely, I put the books away, I don't fire up the lab, and she doesn't hear the words 'packet', 'frame', or 'ospf'. But during the week, my 4 hours a night of study time are sacrosanct. She also understands the sooner that I get this done, the quicker this condition ceases to exist, so she's kind of like another check on my discipline. If she asks me how my studying went that day, and I didn't get it done, and there was no good reason for that, having to admit that feels like I let her and the kids down, and no man wants to feel that way... so I do the studying.

rwmidl

Maybe a different view, but when I was young and single I was interested in anything and everything technology. I could stay up all night working/playing/learning. Now that I'm married with kids, I don't have that time or luxury any more (or patience). I'm more focused on what I need to do and learn for my job as well as keep me competitive. I'm not concerned about knowing everything (or trying to). I would try to focus on what you need to do for your job as well as keep yourself competitive in the market.

It also helps (as others have said) to have a spouse/SO that supports you. My wife got her Masters degree before we were married. So she understands that when I'm studying for something, I need the time to focus. But at the same time, when I'm studying I also make time for my wife and kids. Kids grow up quick. If you spend all of your time focusing on studying/certs/jobs next thing you know your kids will be all grown up. Listen Harry Chapin's "Cat's in the Cradle" if you're not sure what I'm talking about.

N2IT

rwmidl wrote: »

Maybe a different view, but when I was young and single I was interested in anything and everything technology. I could stay up all night working/playing/learning. Now that I'm married with kids, I don't have that time or luxury any more (or patience). I'm more focused on what I need to do and learn for my job as well as keep me competitive. I'm not concerned about knowing everything (or trying to). I would try to focus on what you need to do for your job as well as keep yourself competitive in the market.

It also helps (as others have said) to have a spouse/SO that supports you. My wife got her Masters degree before we were married. So she understands that when I'm studying for something, I need the time to focus. But at the same time, when I'm studying I also make time for my wife and kids. Kids grow up quick. If you spend all of your time focusing on studying/certs/jobs next thing you know your kids will be all grown up. Listen Harry Chapin's "Cat's in the Cradle" if you're not sure what I'm talking about.

Im trying to get in position to support the family for 3 years. She has almost all the requirements to enroll at University of Minnesota Duluth for their doctorial CRNA program. She needs anothe 6 months of work experience and her critical care certification.

Pressure is on, but I really want to see her accomplish her goals. First to be a PHD and second to get her CRNA license. This along with my children and my own self worth drives me. Not to mention the 200,000 a year plus signing bonus if she gets the doctorial one.

Within 5 months she has accomplished all her Nursing training and passed all her exams including two challenging exams ACLS and PALS. She is currently enrolled in Organic Chem and Physics. She is a machine on a mission.

jmritenour

My family doesn't hold me back or slow me down - just the opposite. I bust my ass to rise to the top so I can better provide for them.

It means burning the candle at both ends sometimes, getting creative with my studying and labbing schedules, but it's doable. I still manage to have tons of daddy-daughter time on the weekends, and do plenty as a family.

Anything is achievable as long as you believe it is. See my signature - St. Francis says it all. Do what you must, then do what you can, then you'll eventually be doing things you never thought you could.

Everyone

I'm awesome and I dominate everything I do.

Also I'm still somehow the "young" one everywhere I work. Even with a wife and 3 kids, some coworkers have larger families. I'm not worried about the fresh out of college kids coming in. I have something they'll never be able to catch up to me on, experience.

Zartanasaurus

networker050184 wrote: »

Its been the opposite in my experience. The single guys are busy partying, playing games etc. while the married guys are home bodies with the time to study. The married guys/gals also have more motivation to better their career.

In the end I think it just comes down to the individual though. If you have the drive to better your career and credentials you will make time for it.

I agree. Just because you have the time doesn't mean you use it wisely. Ideally we'd all make the exact right choices at 18 and hit the ground running, but older, more settled people can be more motivated by their situation than the kid who thinks he has all the time in the world.

Forsaken_GA

Everyone wrote: »

I'm awesome and I dominate everything I do.

Also I'm still somehow the "young" one everywhere I work. Even with a wife and 3 kids, some coworkers have larger families. I'm not worried about the fresh out of college kids coming in. I have something they'll never be able to catch up to me on, experience.

They'll be able to catch you just fine if you don't keep learning. There's a point where experience has diminishing returns. Anyone who's in a job where they're doing the same thing every day and they can recognize any problem that comes in because they've seen it before is at risk of stagnation.

To put it in simpler terms - if you're a cashier at wal-mart, from managements perspective, the 2 year cashiers experience is about the same as the 20 year cashiers if all they've done is run a register at the front. If the 20 year can also run layaway, sell guns back in sporting goods, and competently answer questions back in electronics, *then* they have the edge.

Turgon

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

They'll be able to catch you just fine if you don't keep learning. There's a point where experience has diminishing returns. Anyone who's in a job where they're doing the same thing every day and they can recognize any problem that comes in because they've seen it before is at risk of stagnation.

To put it in simpler terms - if you're a cashier at wal-mart, from managements perspective, the 2 year cashiers experience is about the same as the 20 year cashiers if all they've done is run a register at the front. If the 20 year can also run layaway, sell guns back in sporting goods, and competently answer questions back in electronics, *then* they have the edge.

Depends on the type of experience as well. Not to deride the poster of course because I know he has good experience. The senior roles these days demand good technical skills of course but importantly experience of handling things and strategic decision making with commercial things in mind. I have found that having access to that kind of work the last few years has helped me way more than learning more obscure R&S stuff Im never going to use. But one thing feeds another.

daviddws

Man I can relate to this one. I have two kids (6 and 8 ) who were (4 and 6) when i started my masters program. It was VERY HARD to study with kids coming in the room every 5 minutes. Some weekends I would tell my wife... "can you dissapear somewhere.. maybe to your sisters house.. please??". Now im studying for Security+, MCTS, MCITP, and ITIL .. in that order. Approaching the big "40" in a few months, I can feel time pulling at me in terms of actually giving a s#$t for studying.. but I feel this is necessary in todays economic climate. After these certs, I'm not sure how motivated i will be, considering I have like 15 years of IT related experience.

SteveLord

7, 6, 2, 1. Given my wife and I's schedules, we both have little time. My parents also work nights and do not live in homes large enough to accommodate my kids comfortably. That and paying a babysitter to watch 4 kids is out of the question.

Admittedly, I am annoyed when people with 2 or less kids whine about not having any time for anything, whether it be studies or just getting out of the house. Or if their kids are old enough to drive, be home alone, etc. Put a sock in it.

Turgon

SteveLord wrote: »

7, 6, 2, 1. Given my wife and I's schedules, we both have little time. My parents also work nights and do not live in homes large enough to accommodate my kids comfortably. That and paying a babysitter to watch 4 kids is out of the question.

Admittedly, I am annoyed when people with 2 or less kids whine about not having any time for anything, whether it be studies or just getting out of the house. Or if their kids are old enough to drive, be home alone, etc. Put a sock in it.

I can relate. There is no help from grandparents here of any consequence due to distance issues. So we are stuck with them practically 365, 24/7. 4 and 1.

N2IT

daviddws wrote: »

Man I can relate to this one. I have two kids (6 and 8 ) who were (4 and 6) when i started my masters program. It was VERY HARD to study with kids coming in the room every 5 minutes. Some weekends I would tell my wife... "can you dissapear somewhere.. maybe to your sisters house.. please??". Now im studying for Security+, MCTS, MCITP, and ITIL .. in that order. Approaching the big "40" in a few months, I can feel time pulling at me in terms of actually giving a s#$t for studying.. but I feel this is necessary in todays economic climate. After these certs, I'm not sure how motivated i will be, considering I have like 15 years of IT related experience.

I can feel that time pulling at me too. I'm at the point where the big bang might be this damn PMP and then I'm out.

N2IT

SteveLord wrote: »

Admittedly, I am annoyed when people with 2 or less kids whine about not having any time for anything, whether it be studies or just getting out of the house. Or if their kids are old enough to drive, be home alone, etc. Put a sock in it.

That's fine Steve, but the questions is/was how do you keep abreast of the technologies. Do you study at work? I know you have a state gig, so do they send you off to training? Do you study at home, are you past that stage and just learn as you go?

That's where I was getting at.

SteveLord

Sorry for not complimenting my rant by also addressing the core topic. My bad on that.

Anyway I read up on stuff online through a few sites and forums. I get MaximumPC in the office. I network with a lot of people in the state. I sit in on meetings with security freaks, even if I only understand 10% of what they're saying. I've gone to training classes for SQL, Crystal Reports, Excel, Access, Dreamweaver, Network+, Security+ and Windows XP MCP. If I can prove it will be useful to my job, they will generally pay for it.

Being a JOAT, I am seen as the one who should have some kind of remotely logical explanation for everything IT in the office. Networking with the subject matter experts has really helped.

Everyone

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

They'll be able to catch you just fine if you don't keep learning.

Who says I ever stop learning?