Listing implied certs

tr1x

I'm sure this has been asked before.. but do you guys list implied certs on your resume? Such as CCENT if you have the CCNA? MCSA if you have MCSE, etc.

ptilsen

It depends. I wouldn't list MCSA if I had MCSE, nor would I list my Server 2008 MCTS subsets of MCITP:EA, if I had that. They have no standalone value as subsets when the higher-level certifications are present.

However, I do list MCP and Windows 7 and will continue to do so. MCP is used a search term and checklist criteria, even if foolishly, so it makes sense to have it on a resume. MCTS: Win 7, conf. is its own cert and MCITP:EA does not imply it since the Vista cert can also be used to fulfill the client requirement. Also, Windows 7 is another common search time, and it seems wise to include that on a resume.

CCENT does not make sense to include given CCNA. However -- get this -- CCNA does make sense to include given a CCNP, IMO. Once again, CCNA might be foolishly used as a search term/checklist item in such a way that it would detrimental not to list it. CCENT is not as popular or well known as CCNA, so it doesn't make sense to keep it.

In summary, do what the market wants you to do, even if it doesn't necessarily make sense.

networker050184

Agree with ptilsen. If this is something you are posting a job board then definitely leave the more popular search terms like CCNA, MCP etc.

tr1x

ptilsen wrote: »

It depends. I wouldn't list MCSA if I had MCSE, nor would I list my Server 2008 MCTS subsets of MCITP:EA, if I had that. They have no standalone value as subsets when the higher-level certifications are present.

However, I do list MCP and Windows 7 and will continue to do so. MCP is used a search term and checklist criteria, even if foolishly, so it makes sense to have it on a resume. MCTS: Win 7, conf. is its own cert and MCITP:EA does not imply it since the Vista cert can also be used to fulfill the client requirement. Also, Windows 7 is another common search time, and it seems wise to include that on a resume.

CCENT does not make sense to include given CCNA. However -- get this -- CCNA does make sense to include given a CCNP, IMO. Once again, CCNA might be foolishly used as a search term/checklist item in such a way that it would detrimental not to list it. CCENT is not as popular or well known as CCNA, so it doesn't make sense to keep it.

In summary, do what the market wants you to do, even if it doesn't necessarily make sense.

Wow, awesome reply.. thanks man. I didn't even think of employers searching for the certs. Great advice, much appreciated.

JDMurray

ptilsen wrote: »

CCENT does not make sense to include given CCNA.

The CCENT and CCNA are two different certs. Having the CCNA does not mean you also have the CCENT. You can get the CCNA without first getting the CCENT. Therefore they should be listed separately.

What doesn't make sense is listing both the CCNA and CCNA Security, as having the CCNA Security implies having the CCNA because it is a prerequisite cert.

All that being said, I always list all my certs here at TE because many people may not understand that having one cert means you also automatically have others (for example, having the CWSP means you also have the CWNA, but not necessarily the CWTS).

tr1x

JDMurray wrote: »

The CCENT and CCNA are two different certs. Having the CCNA does not mean you also have the CCENT. You can get the CCNA without first getting the CCENT. Therefore they should be listed separately.

What doesn't make sense is listing both the CCNA and CCNA Security, as having the CCNA Security implies having the CCNA because it is a prerequisite cert.

All that being said, I always list all my certs here at TE because many people may not understand that having one cert means you also automatically have others (for example, having the CWSP means you also have the CWNA, but not necessarily the CWTS).

I have to get the CCNA and the CCNA Security for school. I shouldn't list the CCNA once I've passed CCNA Security? What if someone from HR is looking at the resume who doesn't realize the implication?

ptilsen

JDMurray wrote: »

The CCENT and CCNA are two different certs. Having the CCNA does not mean you also have the CCENT. You can get the CCNA without first getting the CCENT. Therefore they should be listed separately.

I disagree. The CCENT has no standalone value, given the CCNA. Just as you wouldn't pursue a CCENT if you already have CCNA, you wouldn't list it on your resume. I understand your point that CCNA does not necessarily imply CCENT, but my response was about what makes sense to list on a resume, not necessarily what exam is or is not a technically subset of another exam.

Turgon

tr1x wrote: »

I have to get the CCNA and the CCNA Security for school. I shouldn't list the CCNA once I've passed CCNA Security? What if someone from HR is looking at the resume who doesn't realize the implication?

I have seen these debates for over 10 years. IT professionals are plugged into the nuances of certifications because we study them. HR are not. They recruit all manner of people for all manner of jobs. By all means make a distinction on your CV but get the lot on there so the spiders grab you. If it comes up in interview you can simply explain that it's a necessary evil to get spotted by the recruiters. No biggie.

JDMurray

If you are trying to use keywords to maximize the attractiveness of your resume to both hiring managers and automated search bots, I can't see why you would not put "CCENT" next to "CCNA" on your resume. What does not including "CCENT" buy you?

Valsacar

For me, I chose to keep my Security+ alive (switched to CE version since I currently work in DoD and they want that) even though I have CISSP. Mainly because of the above reasons, HR is told to look for X and probably doesn't realize that one is "higher" and therefore should also be accepted.

rwmidl

Valsacar wrote: »

For me, I chose to keep my Security+ alive (switched to CE version since I currently work in DoD and they want that) even though I have CISSP. Mainly because of the above reasons, HR is told to look for X and probably doesn't realize that one is "higher" and therefore should also be accepted.

Valsacar - out of curiosity why did you choose to switch your Sec+ to the CE when you have your CISSP? I recently had this discussion and I choose to not change my Sec+ since I'm focusing on keeping my CISSP up to date with the CPE's. CISSP meets almost every category of the 8570 requirements (IAT and IAM). Just curious is all (and to answer the OPs original question, on my resume I list all my certifications even if they overlap - MCSA and MCSE for example. Just mainly to hit any possible keyword searches).

Valsacar

rwmidl wrote: »

Valsacar - out of curiosity why did you choose to switch your Sec+ to the CE when you have your CISSP? I recently had this discussion and I choose to not change my Sec+ since I'm focusing on keeping my CISSP up to date with the CPE's. CISSP meets almost every category of the 8570 requirements (IAT and IAM). Just curious is all (and to answer the OPs original question, on my resume I list all my certifications even if they overlap - MCSA and MCSE for example. Just mainly to hit any possible keyword searches).

Because some people are dumb and I don't want to deal with the "but it says you need Security+ CE version" argument. Keeping your CISSP maintained will keep Security+ (as well as A+ and Net+) maintained, so it's just a matter of a few bucks that my company repays me for anyway.

powerfool

On my LinkedIn profile, I list EVERYTHING.

When I send out a resume, I tailor it for the position (I don't blindly apply to a bunch of jobs), so whatever is relevant stays.

That being said, I haven't applied to a job in over two years, but I have received several job offers (and I mean actual job offers, with dollar figures and all). These have come from folks finding me on LinkedIn, people in my personal network, or folks finding old resumes out on Monster that aren't even nearly as impressive as my current experience would express.

When it comes to searching, you need the relevant terms. Also, I place the year attained next to my certifications. Since my certifications span more than ten years, I like it show that in my record; it backs up my years of experience and shows my commitment to improving and proving myself over my entire career.

djfunz

powerfool wrote: »

Also, I place the year attained next to my certifications.

I never even thought of this but it's a great point. Someone with an A+ or Net+ from 2006 might not be up to speed on the latest tech compared to someone who just received their certification. Thanks for the tip.

rwmidl

Valsacar wrote: »

Because some people are dumb and I don't want to deal with the "but it says you need Security+ CE version" argument. Keeping your CISSP maintained will keep Security+ (as well as A+ and Net+) maintained, so it's just a matter of a few bucks that my company repays me for anyway.

Ok that works

Mike-Mike

JDMurray wrote: »

If you are trying to use keywords to maximize the attractiveness of your resume to both hiring managers and automated search bots, I can't see why you would not put "CCENT" next to "CCNA" on your resume. What does not including "CCENT" buy you?

I agree with JD, why not list as much as you can?

N2IT

I think it depends on the method you are applying. If you are applying on line and the company uses an automated device to weed through the resumes then add as much as you can. Infact at the bottom in no fill text I listed about 100+ keywords so the system hits the resume.

dave330i

For the company resume I need to list every cert because it increases our billing rate with the gov't. For the personal resume I don't list the lower level certs.

ptilsen

JDMurray wrote: »

If you are trying to use keywords to maximize the attractiveness of your resume to both hiring managers and automated search bots, I can't see why you would not put "CCENT" next to "CCNA" on your resume. What does not including "CCENT" buy you?

That's a fair point. The only reason I would see not putting a certification on a resume would be the limited space a resume offers, but those five letters probably aren't going to make or break it on the average resume.

tr1x

Would you guys go so far as to list all the sub-exams for like an MCITP or MCSE?

JDMurray

I've been looking at resumes with certs listed on them since the late 1990's. This thread makes me realize how few of those listed certs included the year each cert was obtained (is my 2004 Security+ worth the same as a 2011 Security+?), and I've never see anyone list the scores they got on their cert exams (to brag on Web sites, yes, but never on a resume).

ptilsen

tr1x wrote: »

Would you guys go so far as to list all the sub-exams for like an MCITP or MCSE?

No, because MCTS is hardly used as a search term at all. The MCSE exams are not certifications in and of themselves, so listing an exam doesn't do much good.

I'm not sure listing dates for certifications makes any sense. It's definitely not traditional, and I don't feel it adds value to the resume either way. I definitely wouldn't list scores, either.

networker050184

ptilsen wrote: »

I'm not sure listing dates for certifications makes any sense. It's definitely not traditional, and I don't feel it adds value to the resume either way. I definitely wouldn't list scores, either.

Agreed here again. I don't see anything positive coming from a date, but I can see someone drawing conclusions that your knowledge may be outdated.

Valsacar

Here is a perfect example of why I choose to keep Sec+ active even though I have CISSP.

"EDUCATION:

1. Bachelor Degree in Computer Science or a related technical discipline, or the equivalent combination of education, technical certifications or training, or work experience is desired.

2. Master Degree in Computer Science or a related discipline is beneficial.

3. CISSP certification a must.

4. CCNA, or other related Network Certification is desired.

"
....

"1. Must be capable of obtaining and maintaining a Secret Security Clearance.

2. Must be able to achieve ITIL Foundation and Security+ (or equivalent) Certification within six months of hire.

"....

MUST have CISSP, MUST achieve Sec+ (or equivalent) withing 6 months of hire... got to love HR people.

NinjaBoy

Valsacar wrote: »

...MUST have CISSP, MUST achieve Sec+ (or equivalent) withing 6 months of hire... got to love HR people.

This and this:

Recent Person spec I came across wrote:

Essential: MCSE, Desirable: MCP

Is why I list all certs...