CCNP vs MCITP

Hello All!

I have been reading this site for awhile and this would be my first post. This site is AWESOME!.

Anyways, currently I am working for a help desk for the air force. We do basic network/system troubleshooting and basic system administraton (account management in Active Directory) type work. I am at my learning cap already with the job and I am just trying to get that paper experience before I move to a network technician/administrator position. I am about to start my Bachelors in IT at WGU in May(I graduate in April with AAs in Net/sys admin degree). My question is should I start studying for my CCNP or get my MCITP?

My only concern is if I am moving into the networking world, would a MCITP be useful to me just to have? Working in an enterprise environment, obviously my next job will be specialized in networking with little system administration. If you feel MCITP knowledge is useful for a networking job, do you recommend the SA or EA? I know many networking jobs only ask for CCNA but require some CCNP knowledge. I already have a home lab setup for CCNP and am just afraid that a CCNP would be overkill on my resume? Ive heard linux knowledge is useful for networking as well. I have a basic knowledge of linux and was thinking possible learning PERL too. Any input is appreciated!

Thanks,

chob11

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Comments

Roguetadhg

I don't know jack about MCITP - so I can't comment on how it weighs.

What do you think you like better? You've listed a heck of a lot: CCNP, MCITP, BSIT:Security, Administration, Network Designing, Linux+, Perl(?)

My job doesn't require any Cisco degrees, actually my manager doesn't have any Cisco degrees. Hell, I'm not getting any benefit from any certification studies with my current work other than a "Good Job". Paying out of pocket hurts a lot.

The CCNP will help you get weeded from other people, if nothing else. What a certification means past the paper is what you put into the certification - any certification. You don't need to have a certification to get an IT job. It will help, but most often can be overlooked if you have the knowledge. Get experience.

Keep in mind: If you have a certification listed and can't answer the "expected-to-know" questions, you've shot yourself in the foot... in a manner of speaking. Fluffing a resume can back fire.

chob11

Thanks for the feedback Roguetadhg.

I took out the degree info just to make it less confusing. Lol that was just info for myself.

I agree. I dont think CCNP would hurt to have unless it is just a paper and you dont have knowledge to back it up. I just hear so many people saying that people with CCNP with 1-2 years experience is frowned upon.

I know I am eventually going to get my CCNP but since I am in a waiting game to build my paper experience at this helpdesk job. But would MCITP be useful for me to have in a future networking job?

NinjaBoy

chob11 wrote: »

...My only concern is if I am moving into the networking world, would a MCITP be useful to me just to have? Working in an enterprise environment, obviously my next job will be specialized in networking with little system administration. If you feel MCITP knowledge is useful for a networking job, do you recommend the SA or EA? I know many networking jobs only ask for CCNA but require some CCNP knowledge. I already have a home lab setup for CCNP and am just afraid that a CCNP would be overkill on my resume? Ive heard linux knowledge is useful for networking as well. I have a basic knowledge of linux and was thinking possible learning PERL too. Any input is appreciated! ...

Networking is a broad gerneric term, especially when it comes to job descriptions... To some it's configuring switches, routers, VLAN, site-to-site links, etc (this would be the world of CISCO, Juniper, HP, etc). To others it means domains, forests, server work (this would be the world of Linux, Microsoft, Apple, etc). And to some it's a catch all for anything IT.

In the smaller organisation you'd have a very small team doing all of the above (or some of the above, then outsourcing the others). In large organisations, for the majority, you'd have separate teams doing very different things with no or little cross-over.

So it really depends on which area you want to go down. Take me (and my team) for example, I'm an IT Manager working in the education sector and the SMB/SME area (we/the department are employed by the educational establishment, but get contracted out to different organisations), we're not Cisco certified (but HP, MS, Comptia, etc certified) so we only do basic network infrastructure work, eg replacing switches, setting up switches, configuring VLANs (via the web interface). But our area of expertise is the Microsoft environment, so that's where we thrive and that's where our interests are. I know some people who make very good money, without touching servers and do the reverse of what we do.

So my question to you would be, where does your interest lay?

Roguetadhg

I'll be going for my CCNP once I get through my CCNA. I don't see what 1-2 years of experience is a bad thing, especially if you've put the time in to lab and read the materials to know the stuff. If you love it, you love it.

chob11

Thanks NinjaBoy for the reply.

My current interests are in LAN/WAN (Cisco, Juniper). My organization is very large. My next position would be aiming for would be very specialized in LAN/WAN (Cisco, Juniper). Like you said there would be very little crossover (may have some system admin type work). I understand CCNP..CCIE would be my route but would MCITP be useful to have?

NinjaBoy

chob11 wrote: »

Thanks NinjaBoy for the reply.

My current interests are in LAN/WAN (Cisco, Juniper). My organization is very large. My next position would be aiming for would be very specialized in LAN/WAN (Cisco, Juniper). Like you said there would be very little crossover (may have some system admin type work). I understand CCNP..CCIE would be my route but would MCITP be useful to have?

To be honest, IMO, if that's the way your career is heading then "no". Just like Cisco & Juniper certs, Microsoft certs have a shelf life now. If you're going to be working day in and day out with LAN/WAN technologies with only a touch here and there on server, I would first specialise in my main working field and just brush up on server work. Then in the future if your job requires it, then go for certification in your secondary field. Doing it this way will save you both time and money.

However the choice is yours, if you feel like you want to go down both routes (having the time and the money), who am I to stop you?

Roguetadhg

Going for multiple certifications are rough. You take more time studying for both than what you would have just going for a single study.

ptilsen

If networking is your career track, then focus on CCNP. There are some positions that really benefit from someone with broad knowledge both with Microsoft and Cisco, but not many. I've only see a handful of people with MCITP:EA/MCSE and CCNP or CCIE on this site, and I've only met one in person. CCNP is a bit higher level than MCITP:EA/MCSE IMO, and the Microsoft cert doesn't add that much to a CCNP holder's resume.

Really, only a very high-level generalist or a security professional would really get much out of both. MCITP:EA is not an easy track by any means, and there is virtually no overlap with the day-to-day job of a typical CCNP, which makes it even more difficult.

chob11

ptilsen wrote: »

If networking is your career track, then focus on CCNP. There are some positions that really benefit from someone with broad knowledge both with Microsoft and Cisco, but not many. I've only see a handful of people with MCITP:EA/MCSE and CCNP or CCIE on this site, and I've only met one in person. CCNP is a bit higher level than MCITP:EA/MCSE IMO, and the Microsoft cert doesn't add that much to a CCNP holder's resume.

Really, only a very high-level generalist or a security professional would really get much out of both. MCITP:EA is not an easy track by any means, and there is virtually no overlap with the day-to-day job of a typical CCNP, which makes it even more difficult.

Awesome thanks for sharing your valuable experience!

malcybood

If you want a job in networking then go for CCNP.

A network manager will not even consider an MCITP as a beneficial certification to him and his team unless you tick all the boxes from a networking perspective.

Even the I can almost guarantee that you won't be quizzed on anything related to te MCITP in an interview and probably not in your job.

Having both paves the way to becoming a solution architect, however realistically you probably wouldn't be ready to do a role like that until the 7-10 year experience mark where you've had hands on with servers, networks and application design and deployment.

As a biased network guy who has done both server and network support networking is the more interesting technology with things such as wan optimisation etc becoming main stream. There's a lot of stuff in networking that make me and more importantly the customers I work for say "wow, can you really do that?"

From a server perspective i personally find saying "rebooted the iis box and it resolves the issue" a real drag.

I do find vm ware interesting though to be fair so if I was ever going to cross over to te server side then that's as far as I'd go, dealing with vm ware and blade centres etc.

As mentioned this is all just my opinion and observations working in a mixture of enterprises, global outsourcing companies and Cisco gold partners!

Hope this helps

effekted

Take a look at job postings in your area or the area you intend to be if you are looking at moving after being out of the military. In my area I see quite a few network positions that have a small focus on networking and a primary focus on server administration (Exchange, DBA, IIS). Which really annoys me because if it's a heavy system role then change the damn title to System Administrator!

My goals for this year are CCNA>CCNA Security and then jumping into the CCNP Security track (goal is to have Secure and Firewall knocked out) since I want to focus primarily on perimeter security/firewall administration. But at the same time I will be expected to have some system administration skills so next year I may add MCITP:SA depending on how much time I have with Juniper/Extreme studies (We're a Juniper Routing and Extreme switching shop with Cisco ASA/Juniper SSG firewalls). So I have a nice exposure to several top vendors.

Todd Burrell

Speaking as someone who has the MCITP:EA and is now working on the CCNP I can speak some about both certs. If you want to go the network path the CCNP is the way to go and I would skip the MCITP. As others on this thread have stated MCITP is NOT an easy cert to get and I'm not sure how much it would really help you. And MCITP:EA is a VERY detailed exam track with a number of pretty hard exams.

And as for the experience issue - I think it depends on the job and the person. I know of some network folks that have 15-20 years of on the job 'experience' but I know more about networking from getting my CCNA. So years of experience does not necessarily mean that you are good at your job. Spending many years going things the wrong way is not worth that much. In today's environment in the IT industry certs are becoming more and more important and many times they end up being the tiebreaker between 2 comparable candidates.

Good luck.

getitngo

I currently work for a wireless provider and I am working on getting on the network side of things. I talked to one of the hiring managers about things that she would like to see on my resume (after I got my MCITP). And she pretty much gave me a learning track which goes like this:

N+
CCNT
CCNA
UNIX
Juniper

In between those you have courses by:
Motorola
Lucent
Nortel

So if you are wanting to get into the network (internetwork) side of things and I would go for the CCNP instead of the MCITP

chob11

This is awesome feedback. Thanks guys. I feel convinced to continue with ccnp studies. I am probably going to get some security concentration as well. Knowing the government, security is everything.

Savvy

I just wanted to say thanks for asking this question, as it was something that had been on my mind as well. Obviously, the answer is to decide what your passion is in and specialize down that career path. I still have to decide which route I want to go down when my time in the AF comes to a close (just reenlisted last week, so that's still a little ways off).
What is your AFSC currently? I'm a 3D1X1 which kind of limits my growth past desktop support, which is why I have to specialize in my free time. I wouldn't mind having experience working with routers/servers though before I get out. You seem to be quite driven so far though. I can only advise you to keep it up, and it will make the transition back to civilian life that much easier. I have a bit of catching up to do (need to finish my degree up first).

it_consultant

Beware of the pigeonhole. A CCNP without Microsoft knowledge is much less marketable than a CCNP with at least a medium amount of sysadmin knowledge. Same thing with Microsoft, there are plenty of MCITPs who struggled through the networking exam and have never touched a Cisco/HP/Juniper device; there is a much better market for MCITPs who have a minimum of a CCNA. Enterprise IT is much more demanding than it used to be, the days of being a specialist in one area (Network, Sysadmin, etc) are growing smaller. In fact, I ought to throw telephony in here too but that is outside of the original question.

spiderjericho

I think new IT techs or those with ver little experience tend to be a jack of all trades.

"I'm going to be a Cisco Certified Architect/CISSP/Microsoft Architect/vmWare Design/yadda, yadda."

The problem is memory retention and day to day use. And also the little issue of real-world experience.

I think you need to figure out what your area of expertise is and focus on it. If it's network engineering, do CCNP. And as some said maybe CCIE, then delve into Juniper.

Not to say, you shouldn't know how Microsoft's suite of products interact with the network. You should, but it doesn't require an MCTIP:EA.

And if you're a system admin, you should Have some knowledge of networking like CCNA and Net+, just so you know how to interact with the Network engineers.

it_consultant

spiderjericho wrote: »

I think new IT techs or those with ver little experience tend to be a jack of all trades.

"I'm going to be a Cisco Certified Architect/CISSP/Microsoft Architect/vmWare Design/yadda, yadda."

The problem is memory retention and day to day use. And also the little issue of real-world experience.

I think you need to figure out what your area of expertise is and focus on it. If it's network engineering, do CCNP. And as some said maybe CCIE, then delve into Juniper.

Not to say, you shouldn't know how Microsoft's suite of products interact with the network. You should, but it doesn't require an MCTIP:EA.

And if you're a system admin, you should Have some knowledge of networking like CCNA and Net+, just so you know how to interact with the Network engineers.

Its interesting you should say this - my real world experience contradicts a lot of this thinking. In fact, I have considerable experience in Cisco, Microsoft, Security, VMWare, and telephony. I am not some sort of super ninja, most of my colleagues are similarly credentialed. It is wise to educate ones self with as much breadth as you can handle, it will only improve your career.

ptilsen

it_consultant wrote: »

Its interesting you should say this - my real world experience contradicts a lot of this thinking. In fact, I have considerable experience in Cisco, Microsoft, Security, VMWare, and telephony. I am not some sort of super ninja, most of my colleagues are similarly credentialed. It is wise to educate ones self with as much breadth as you can handle, it will only improve your career.

I can corroborate what you're saying with my own experience, but from what evidence I've seen most IT professionals are not IT consultants or generalist sysadmins. We are the exception to an industry that generally favors the specialized.

gbadman

ptilsen wrote: »

I can corroborate what you're saying with my own experience, but from what evidence I've seen most IT professionals are not IT consultants or generalist sysadmins. We are the exception to an industry that generally favors the specialized.

I would agree with that. I don't think that sort of bandwidth is a realistic target that people finding their way in the industry should be encouraged to aim for. Nor is it necessarily desirable.
If someone is lucky enough to have a lot of high level experience in multiple areas of systems engineering as well as multiple areas of network engineering (as I presume you two do), and all that knowledge is actually current, then more power to them. However I would bet that this is so rare as to be statistically insignificant. The realistic scenario as I see it is where a highly-skilled systems engineer dips their toe into networking, or vice versa (though I think the former is more common than the latter).

I actually see the trend as moving away from the JOAT thing. As the body of knowledge in each of those two professions (I exagerrate for emphasis) increases with time, so the idea of mastering both becomes less feasible (in the same way as the old style polymaths in mathematics, art and philosophy are now virtually extinct). With the rewards in IT ever-decreasing, it is important to gain high level skills that would be in high demand. and from an employer perspective, it must be far better to emply a multi-CCXP and a muilti-MCITP than ten JOATS.

it_consultant

I recommend people specialize, mine is Exchange, I have made more money fixing poorly implemented Exchange systems than any one other skill. When you are just starting out, I feel like it is a good idea to be more of a generalist since your specialty will likely be determined by the needs of your particular area. I have found that a lot of niche specializations are probably not where you would want to focus when you are starting out, like VMWARE. I can do 90% of what a VMWARE specialist can do and I have no specific training in VMWARE. The VMWARE experts I defer too specialized in VMWARE after being a JOAT or they came from another specialty. The reality is, a VMWARE expert with little breadth in other areas is not very useful.

I think this is the best way to keep your job. You can more easily transition between specialties when one becomes more important and others become less important. I think EVERYONE who wants to do this day in and day out have to know both Cisco and Microsoft plus at least one platform (SQL, Exchange, Oracle, VMWARE, telephony, etc).