How do I move forward in my career?

zenhound

I'm pretty new to the forum and looking for some advice. I've been lurking for a while and using study ideas and methods I found here I was able to pretty quickly pass my A+ cert, so, thanks for that, this is a great resource.

I'm stuck in my current position and can't seem to find a way out. I work in government, got the job 6 years ago. This is my first government experience. In the late 90s/early 2000s, I worked in a NOC for an internet backbone/data center, doing reactive break/fix type first line troubleshooting. If something broke we looked at it and if we couldn't figure it out in a few minutes, passed it to the appropriate people. I was eventually promoted to Tech 2, and then on to a technical account manager position. The economy collapsed with the dot com bust and I decided to go back to school so I had been out of the field for a while. I took this position, which is very entry-level, as both a way back in and a way into the government system, which I'd been interested in for the supposedly good benefits.

It's six years later, the good benefits weren't really that good (except for retirement which is great). And it's apparently impossible to move forward in the government system. As long as I've worked there only a few people have ever been promoted, and it mostly seems to depend on who you know (which isn't supposed to happen in the government system, but yeah). I'm actually a really good employee, go the extra mile, people like me, all that jazz. I have a couple people much higher up the chain willing to recommend me. Yet...nothing. Some of it is that positions just never open up, and some of it is that I can't get past HR. I guess I don't know the exact right words to put on the application, and some of it is that they want you to have the silliest specific experience. Like you must have experience working with a specific program in their department, but, well, how can you get that unless you already work there? And HR is completely inflexible, if the posting says "must have experience with tying shoes professionally" and you don't have that you won't get moved on.

So my big question is how do I get out? I'm totally willing to stay within the government system, but it's starting to seem unlikely. I was just offered a position about two months ago, after the usual painful interview and wait process, which would have been a 50% raise. Unfortunately I had to back out because it required a polygraph, which they didn't include in the posting. Yay. I'm willing to move to the private sector, but am having trouble getting responses from positions that pay the same as what I'm making and/or are permanent employee positions. Seems like everything is contract, and I can't be without health insurance.

Sorry to have written a book. I'm just trying to paint an accurate picture of how stuck I am. My current plan is to take the next few months to work on some certs, maybe start WGU for an MS. All of that is good, although it's hard for me to choose a cert path. Do I do the comptia stuff? I did A+ because it was mostly review, and a specific position I applied for required it. Would it benefit me to do Sec+/Net+? Should I go right to Microsoft or Cisco? Or something random like ITIL, which seems to be worshipped by our management?

TheCudder

Security+ & Network+ would benefit you if you're looking to stay in the government/military environment. As for MS or Cisco, are you looking to go towards Systems Administration (Microsoft) or Network Administration (Cisco), that will answer that question? Most people who apply for gov't jobs just take the job description and basically work that into their resume, even thought its not true (not saying i recommend doing so). Additionally, you'll find yourself having to re-locate for open positions.and try working yourself back home --- yea, sucks.

You may also want to Google "Defense Directive 8570" (DoDD 8570), to show the minimum certs needed to have certain positions for the government

DigitalZeroOne

Most jobs are about who you know, Government jobs are also all about what paper you have. I'm a contractor and I can say that degrees and certs are the key to a lot of jobs. Yes experience counts, but they also look for key materials. As mentioned, Security+ is one, having a degree is also at the top of the list (The first Gov contracting job that I was offered required that I have a Bachelors). Besides the certs listed for the DoDD 8570, sometimes there may be certain key OS level certs.

For a past job I had, some people needed to have a CCNA, some needed an MCITP, it was all dependent upon what job you performed.

I'm amending my post --

It is quite possible to move to a contractor and still receive health and retirement benefits, the downside is that contracts can end very quickly, so the possibility of being without a job is easier as a contractor. This is where paper and experience come into play, because a new company may just pick you up for the contract that the old company had. Above all else, I feel as though certs and degrees play the biggest role, at least from what I've seen.

rwmidl

zenhound wrote: »

I was just offered a position about two months ago, after the usual painful interview and wait process, which would have been a 50% raise. Unfortunately I had to back out because it required a polygraph, which they didn't include in the posting.

Out of curiosity, if you were offered the position, why did you turn it down because it required a Poly? Do you just not want to go through the experience? Do you have something to hide? Having a clearance with a Poly can be worth it's weight in gold.

Turgon

zenhound wrote: »

I'm pretty new to the forum and looking for some advice. I've been lurking for a while and using study ideas and methods I found here I was able to pretty quickly pass my A+ cert, so, thanks for that, this is a great resource.

I'm stuck in my current position and can't seem to find a way out. I work in government, got the job 6 years ago. This is my first government experience. In the late 90s/early 2000s, I worked in a NOC for an internet backbone/data center, doing reactive break/fix type first line troubleshooting. If something broke we looked at it and if we couldn't figure it out in a few minutes, passed it to the appropriate people. I was eventually promoted to Tech 2, and then on to a technical account manager position. The economy collapsed with the dot com bust and I decided to go back to school so I had been out of the field for a while. I took this position, which is very entry-level, as both a way back in and a way into the government system, which I'd been interested in for the supposedly good benefits.

It's six years later, the good benefits weren't really that good (except for retirement which is great). And it's apparently impossible to move forward in the government system. As long as I've worked there only a few people have ever been promoted, and it mostly seems to depend on who you know (which isn't supposed to happen in the government system, but yeah). I'm actually a really good employee, go the extra mile, people like me, all that jazz. I have a couple people much higher up the chain willing to recommend me. Yet...nothing. Some of it is that positions just never open up, and some of it is that I can't get past HR. I guess I don't know the exact right words to put on the application, and some of it is that they want you to have the silliest specific experience. Like you must have experience working with a specific program in their department, but, well, how can you get that unless you already work there? And HR is completely inflexible, if the posting says "must have experience with tying shoes professionally" and you don't have that you won't get moved on.

So my big question is how do I get out? I'm totally willing to stay within the government system, but it's starting to seem unlikely. I was just offered a position about two months ago, after the usual painful interview and wait process, which would have been a 50% raise. Unfortunately I had to back out because it required a polygraph, which they didn't include in the posting. Yay. I'm willing to move to the private sector, but am having trouble getting responses from positions that pay the same as what I'm making and/or are permanent employee positions. Seems like everything is contract, and I can't be without health insurance.

Sorry to have written a book. I'm just trying to paint an accurate picture of how stuck I am. My current plan is to take the next few months to work on some certs, maybe start WGU for an MS. All of that is good, although it's hard for me to choose a cert path. Do I do the comptia stuff? I did A+ because it was mostly review, and a specific position I applied for required it. Would it benefit me to do Sec+/Net+? Should I go right to Microsoft or Cisco? Or something random like ITIL, which seems to be worshipped by our management?

Lots of people work in government in the US. The military/government complex is enormous. Upwards mobility can be difficult. Potentially better in the private sector but it's very competitive there. If you want to do really well in the private sector, spend the rest of this year getting ready for it so you can get a gig and move upwards from there.

WafflesAndRootbeer

rwmidl wrote: »

Out of curiosity, if you were offered the position, why did you turn it down because it required a Poly? Do you just not want to go through the experience? Do you have something to hide? Having a clearance with a Poly can be worth it's weight in gold.

It is great to have, but you can easily get disqualified from a polygraph, which is not a useful screening tool as anyone who is a pathological liar can pass one and people can also get false positives simply based on whatever goes through their head when asked a question. If you do get disqualified from a polygraph, there is also the possibility of being blacklisted from future government jobs depending on what they ask and who is asking it.

hiddenknight821

WafflesAndRootbeer wrote: »

It is great to have, but you can easily get disqualified from a polygraph, which is not a useful screening tool as anyone who is a pathological liar can pass one and people can also get false positives simply based on whatever goes through their head when asked a question. If you do get disqualified from a polygraph, there is also the possibility of being blacklisted from future government jobs depending on what they ask and who is asking it.

But wouldn't they use that against you without your knowledge if you withdrew from the process? I believe withdrawing can backfire as well. I think it's better to try than not trying at all. Polygraph isn't the only test anyway. I believe we would have to pass a psychological test too. Don't forget they may also have to interview with a few people that knows you.

Zartanasaurus

Polygraphs are junk science anyway. There's a reason they aren't admissible in a court of law. Their only value is self confessions. The actual science is junk. Nothing to be afraid of.

Valsacar

ITIL isn't random, the DoD (and I'm sure other US Government organizations) are taking it as the next best thing, a lot of contractors and GS in my area are being told they NEED to get it.

As already mentioned, you could move into the contractor side (I assume you already have at least a SECRET). Contracting overseas is the best IMO, all the normal benefits plus things like housing (which, depending on contract, could means actual cost or could be a set amount that you can keep the difference) and no federal taxes (last years limit was something like 91k, not including housing). If you have kids their school (either in DoD or private foreign schools) is normally covered as well. If you're interested GDIT (branch of General Dynamics, my company), BAE, Northrop Grumman, Booze Allen, and Cubic are the big ones around. Cubic is the smallest, in our area (Korea) it's basically the McDonalds of contracting (not a great place to work, but gets your foot in the door).

Sometimes to move up you have to move out. Another one to look at, if you're looking for pure government work, is the Foreign Service (Department of State). They have FSS that have IT as one of the fields, pretty nice packages as well (as long as you like travel).

powerfool

You didn't say if you were working for the federal gov't or something different (unless I missed it).

If you are working for the federal gov't, you could take a look at usajobs.gov and look for a position in a different agency. Many folks go that route when they are looking to get a paygrade bump or two. Some agencies are top heavy and can no longer promote... others are becoming that way and are quickly promoting folks.

If this is your only gov't experience, I wouldn't worry about the retirement so much with only six years in. If you said you had 12 years in, I would say you should try and find another gov't job. You can always just look at getting a private sector job or go the contractor route.

If I had that many years of experience and I was stagnant, I would be upset, as well. Best wishes.

powerfool

rwmidl wrote: »

Out of curiosity, if you were offered the position, why did you turn it down because it required a Poly? Do you just not want to go through the experience? Do you have something to hide? Having a clearance with a Poly can be worth it's weight in gold.

My aversion to such a proposal would be that a job that requires that level of interrogation is not going to offer the flexibility that I desire. I have no interest in a job where I have to be physically located on-site 100% of the time I do my work. My current work allows me to VPN in and have a flexible schedule, occasionally working from home (a few days each month).

zenhound

Sorry, I should have been more clear that I'm with non-federal, state/local government. I definitely do not have and do not want secret or any other clearance level for a variety of reasons, both philosophical and practical. For instance, state applications are rather hilariously subject to open record laws here in CO, so anyone who felt like it could get my packet of answers about everything I've ever done. No thanks. It might be a western thing, but plenty of us out here don't want any employer, government or otherwise, giving us rectal exams for the privilege of work. Doesn't mean we have anything to hide or are guilty of anything.

I agree that retirement isn't worth much at this point, especially given my age (mid30s) and the fact that the legislature is constantly making noise about cutting it down to nothing. I think I probably should take the next year or so to cert/skill up and jump ship. I've never seen a more dysfunctional department than the one I now work for.

I tend to be more interested in the server side of things, possibly moving into a development role in the future. Then again, might be easier for me to hit networking hard and go that route since I have more of that exp.

Thanks for the replies, lots to think about.

WafflesAndRootbeer

hiddenknight821 wrote: »

But wouldn't they use that against you without your knowledge if you withdrew from the process? I believe withdrawing can backfire as well. I think it's better to try than not trying at all. Polygraph isn't the only test anyway. I believe we would have to pass a psychological test too. Don't forget they may also have to interview with a few people that knows you.

If you withdraw right before the polygraph, it can be unofficially interpreted as a red flag, but AFAIK, they only keep your records if you go through the clearance process and are disqualified at any point or if you get approved for a clearance, because that would be applicable to future clearance investigations.