Beyond frustrated over low compensation offers and what to do next

The Shadow

This post isn't meant to be a rant. I am just really frustrated here and I need some help.

I got laid off from my job about two months ago because of budget cuts (thankfully it wasn't just me). My old employer is really hurting to say the least. I've been sending out resumes and going on interviews like madness. I am sending out about 100 a week and I am getting about 2-3 interviews per week (which isn't bad). Sadly, the compensation offers are a joke. One place was offering $36,000 to $42,000 and another place was offering $42,000 to $48,000. Both of these areas are VERY affluent upscale areas. One place even paid 5 million plus for their building and they've been around for over 25 years.

I didn't kill myself going to college, and taking all of these certifications exams to make this little compensation. Plus I've been working in IT for about 7 to 12 years (depending on how you look at it). I put MCSE and the cities in my area on indeed.com/salary and they all show in the $70+ range.

Last year I decided to go the Exchange route to become a full time Exchange administrator with the goal of making better compensation. I am sick of being a generalist and I want to specialize in something to make better compensation. Since I have a strong background with Active Directory and Windows Server, Exchange seemed to be like a good fit.

So should I continue with what I am doing? Sending out resume, taking interviews, and working on becoming a full time Exchange admin. Or should I go the Cisco networking side of things to make the compensation that I want to make? At times feel that no place will pay me what I want unless I have my CCIE. I know that certifications don't equal a high paying job, but I just feel so trapped and I want to move forward with my life.

I am in my early 30s, I am living with my brother, and I am single. All of my friends who are my age have been married for years with REALLY good high paying jobs. They all have a house, children, and their spouses don't work. They worked hard and everything, but they haven't had to try nearly as hard as I am trying here. I don't think that they've even sent out 100 resumes through their lives. I am trying not to compair myself to others, but it's so hard not to.

vCole

What type of positions are you applying for? Where are you located? What was your salary range previously to being laid off?

Also, you need to sell yourself to the employer on WHY you should be getting $70k+.

shodown

it all depends on what you have been doing for those 7 to 10 years. if you stuck around and did low level jobs then the salary maybe correct, if you have done much higher level work maybe its time to look at the resume and find someone who will pay you what you are worth. You have the grind going on which is a big plus, now lets focus on getting it in the right direction.

Version4

I'm sorry to see that you are so frustrated with your chosen path, you don't need us to tell you it is rough out there at times. Lay offs are never easy and sometimes make you feel under-appreciated.

Based on what you have said, I can recommend a few things:
a) Let's take a look at your resume, any chance you can post it here? We have lots of people that are really good at resume reviews

b) Tell us what you WANT to do, what have been your interests the past 7 to 12 years in IT? Specializing is a good thing, you mention AD/Server/Exchange, is that what you truly WANT to do?

c) I know you are not trying to compare yourself to others, but you really are. If you are constantly comparing yourself to others, chances are you will never be satisfied. Forget about everyone else and focus on YOU and your strengths.

d) If financially possible, consider taking a short sabbatical. I know you have been laid off for two months, but there is such a thing as trying too hard. If possible take another few weeks or a month and do something you have always wanted to do. It doesn't have to be expensive, it just needs to be an activity you can focus on to get your mind off of the career grind. Most people find that this brief time off recharges the spirit, it might do wonders for you.

Overall, it sounds like you are a very knowledgeable person and have a lot of experience. You are also in a good position obligation wise, not very many additional things to worry about which makes you highly mobile and adaptable. Many of us would welcome your mobility

Hang in there, you aren't alone and you'll be back in the game soon enough

The Shadow

I am mostly applying for Systems Administrator positions. I live in Southern California, and I was making $30 an hour at my last position.

The Shadow

Version4 wrote: »

I'm sorry to see that you are so frustrated with your chosen path, you don't need us to tell you it is rough out there at times. Lay offs are never easy and sometimes make you feel under-appreciated.

Based on what you have said, I can recommend a few things:
a) Let's take a look at your resume, any chance you can post it here? We have lots of people that are really good at resume reviews

b) Tell us what you WANT to do, what have been your interests the past 7 to 12 years in IT? Specializing is a good thing, you mention AD/Server/Exchange, is that what you truly WANT to do?

c) I know you are not trying to compare yourself to others, but you really are. If you are constantly comparing yourself to others, chances are you will never be satisfied. Forget about everyone else and focus on YOU and your strengths.

d) If financially possible, consider taking a short sabbatical. I know you have been laid off for two months, but there is such a thing as trying too hard. If possible take another few weeks or a month and do something you have always wanted to do. It doesn't have to be expensive, it just needs to be an activity you can focus on to get your mind off of the career grind. Most people find that this brief time off recharges the spirit, it might do wonders for you.

Overall, it sounds like you are a very knowledgeable person and have a lot of experience. You are also in a good position obligation wise, not very many additional things to worry about which makes you highly mobile and adaptable. Many of us would welcome your mobility

Hang in there, you aren't alone and you'll be back in the game soon enough

Thanks for the encouragement. I deeply appreciate it.

slinuxuzer

You have to counter, you don't just decline the offer, tell them X is the least you will work for, and expect the offer to come back no higher than that, most companys feel obligated to play this time honored game of negotiation, unfortunatley it isn't as easy as apply and get offered what your really worth, ever wonder how there are so many IT managers older than you, not half as smart, and they make more money? They have been through the negotiation routine more than a few times. Don't be afraid to quote your market research and explain to them your a senior systems admin with a 12 year track record of project completion under your belt.

Also if you get the chance to work with Vmware or other virtualization jump at it.

Iristheangel

The Shadow wrote: »

I am mostly applying for Systems Administrator positions. I live in Southern California, and I was making $30 an hour at my last position.

Hey there,

I live in SoCal too so I know the job market you're in. I went through a temp agency contracting and on my first try, I was hired as a FTE by the company I was contracting for much more than $30/hr. I've heard good things about Robert Half but haven't had personal experience with them. In Socal, Insight Global and The Capital Group are hiring for much higher than $30/hr depending on what jobs you take and they tend to have contract-to-hire positions. Even if it doesn't turn into something permanent, it prevents gaps in your employment, has the potential to expand your skill set, and can diversify your resume.

As far as your desire to specialize, I would warn against it. I know everyone will have different opinions on this but if you look at the majority of job postings out there, most employers are looking for someone who can wear many different hats and have a broad range of skills. If you spend too much time specializing on one thing, you might get pigeonholed into it and later become obsolete. That's my two cents and I'm sure others will disagree with me. Have a good day

The Shadow

slinuxuzer wrote: »

Also if you get the chance to work with Vmware or other virtualization jump at it.

I've never touched VMware, but I did setup Hyper-V at my last position.

ptilsen

I agree with slinuxuzer -- you have to be countering their offers. Counter at $75K or so and see what they come back with. IMO you're worth more like $80K with your experience, certs, education, and the skill level I'm assuming you're at.

Also, post your resume if you haven't. A well written resume in some ways is more important than any of your qualifications; if they are not presented correctly it will impact whether you get interviews and how you're perceived at an interview.

Everyone

IMHO 2 to 3 interviews scheduled per 100 resumes sent out is awful. That's only a 2%-3% success rate.

If you want a high salary, just throwing your resume to every job listing out there is not the way to go. You need to put a lot of time into your resume, and be selective with what jobs you're applying to.

Many interview processes can take a month or longer to go through. Find out the pay range up front, if it's not in the range you're looking for, don't even start the interview process. If they won't tell you, do some research and estimate it.

Are you bound to your current location for any reason? Broadening your search and being open to relocation may get you what you want faster.

ptilsen

Everyone wrote: »

IMHO 2 to 3 interviews scheduled per 100 resumes sent out is awful. That's only a 2%-3% success rate.

If you want a high salary, just throwing your resume to every job listing out there is not the way to go. You need to put a lot of time into your resume, and be selective with what jobs you're applying to.

Many interview processes can take a month or longer to go through. Find out the pay range up front, if it's not in the range you're looking for, don't even start the interview process. If they won't tell you, do some research and estimate it.

Are you bound to your current location for any reason? Broadening your search and being open to relocation may get you what you want faster.

All great advice. Take time to write good cover letters and be selective. Spray and pray with your resume rarely has good results. Edit: Rhyme unintentional.

The Shadow

Thanks everyone! Here is my resume. I changed my name and I changed the company names.

resume.doc

Mrkali

Whereabouts in So Cal are you located, if you don't mind me asking? LA area?

The Shadow

LA Area, but I have had a few interviews in Orange County and in San Diego.

Iristheangel

The Shadow wrote: »

Thanks everyone! Here is my resume. I changed my name and I changed the company names.

resume.doc

Looking through your resume, some of the things that jumped out at me were the last two jobs that you were employed at for only a couple of months. If it was me, I would just take those off and fill it in the entire time slot with something about how I was a self-employed doing consulting and contracting during that time (if it's applicable to you or if you were a contractor as opposed to a FTE). Obviously big gaps in the resume are bad but jobs that are only 3-4 months in length that you were laid off from can be just as difficult to explain if you get to the interview for those good jobs.

Some of the wording could be changed as well so it doesn't look quite as repetitive between different titles and makes you look more responsible. For example, the "Part of a team" part could be taken out or worded differently. You supported those workstations. If it was me, I would own it. Employers and HR are usually smart enough to know that you weren't the only IT guy there or they can ask for clarification if they need it. Your resume is your time to shine and sell yourself. You want them to think about what YOU supported, not what you and your team supported. That's just my take on it.

One last thing, I would recommend separating you certifications and degree. Sometimes separating them can draw more attention to the fact that you finished school AND went out of your way to be certified.

The Shadow

Iristheangel wrote: »

Looking through your resume, some of the things that jumped out at me were the last two jobs that you were employed at for only a couple of months. If it was me, I would just take those off and fill it in the entire time slot with something about how I was a self-employed doing consulting and contracting during that time (if it's applicable to you or if you were a contractor as opposed to a FTE). Obviously big gaps in the resume are bad but jobs that are only 3-4 months in length that you were laid off from can be just as difficult to explain if you get to the interview for those good jobs.

Some of the wording could be changed as well so it doesn't look quite as repetitive between different titles and makes you look more responsible. For example, the "Part of a team" part could be taken out or worded differently. You supported those workstations. If it was me, I would own it. Employers and HR are usually smart enough to know that you weren't the only IT guy there or they can ask for clarification if they need it. Your resume is your time to shine and sell yourself. You want them to think about what YOU supported, not what you and your team supported. That's just my take on it.

One last thing, I would recommend separating you certifications and degree. Sometimes separating them can draw more attention to the fact that you finished school AND went out of your way to be certified.

Those were actually contract jobs through an employment agency (like Kforce and apex).

CloudKill9

I know this isn't my thread but had a question regarding what Iris said.

Should you list a job that you worked at for a few months that you weren't laid off from?

Keener

Keep your Head Up and Have Faith (not necessarily religious based). As others have said, you seem to be in a flexible situation. Take advantage of that. I have relocated 2 times for jobs. Neither worked out long term, but I gained experience. My first relocation was also for my first job in IT. My wife and I were just married and bought a house 3 months before we moved for the job. Without that relocation I probably would not be where I am at today, though.

Unfortunately, some companies out there are just low-balling people because they can. Let's face it. Some people will take just about anything for a job in this economy.

I am not to your experience level and I have been "rutted" in the break/fix and Helpdesk arena for a while. I tried going for my MBA to move into management and then was forced into a relocation because my wife lost her job. I had 6 years experience (at the time) in a helpdesk role, 1/2 way to my MBA (helping to better understand business side), and was making $26 an hour. I was getting job interest paying $11-$13 an hour and wanting 3-5 years experience. And that was for a big size company (like Emerson). Heck, my first job in IT was at $18 an hour 7 years ago. I even told the recruiter good luck! His basic response was that he understood and thanked me.

It doesn't make sense, but that's the way some companies are treating things.

Good Luck and keep us posted.

Iristheangel

The Shadow wrote: »

Those were actually contract jobs through an employment agency (like Kforce and apex).

Most of the time, you're going to get a glance or two at your resume before someone decides whether to take a deeper look at it or call you. I'm not saying contracting is bad because that's how I got my current job and it's completely legitimate work, but to someone taking a quick glance at it, they're going to see the top two jobs on your resume being under 6 months and move on. Most of the time their eyes won't get past the first two to see that you were working at "ASDF School" the whole time. It's crappy and it's not right, but that is the way that HR does it these days. The important thing is to get into an interview and the rest is impressing them with the knowledge and skills you have. For me, I have an additional part of my resume that lists my skills and I include hardware, systems and languages that I have experience in through side consulting gigs I didn't list in my resume.

Iristheangel

CloudKill9 wrote: »

I know this isn't my thread but had a question regarding what Iris said.

Should you list a job that you worked at for a few months that you weren't laid off from?

It really depends. I would say no in almost every case unless you have NO other IT experience whatsoever. That's just my take on it

The Shadow

I am all for relocating. I've had an interview for a job about 3 hours north of me, and I have interviews about 3 hours south of me.

I am trying here, I just don't want to sell myself short and work for peanuts.

it_consultant

The Shadow wrote: »

Thanks everyone! Here is my resume. I changed my name and I changed the company names.

resume.doc

Based on your resume you are a $53K a year employee in Denver Colorado. That is just based on your resume and nothing else so please don't take offense. I think you are not getting a good response because your resume doesn't scream high powered professional.

I would rewrite the resume to be more of a functional resume. If you are really good at exchange, like you can recover from disasters, set up multi site environments, set up clusters, etc. then you should be in my salary range. If that is all true, that needs to jump off the page.

Everyone

The Shadow wrote: »

Thanks everyone! Here is my resume. I changed my name and I changed the company names.

resume.doc

Margins are too small. The smallest they should be is the "Narrow" margin setting in Word, which is 0.5".

Use tables! Without borders of course. You can arrange/align things a lot nicer with tables instead of using a bunch of tabs or spaces.

You should have a summary.

Death by bullets. Not only do you only seem to only be listing responsibilities, you also start too many of them with the same word. Count how many times you started one with "Provided" or "Resolved". A good resume will show both responsibilities AND accomplishments. I prefer a paragraph outlining responsibilities followed by a couple of bullets showing accomplishments. I've had great success with that format.

Where you have "ASDF School"... looks like you worked there, left for 2 years, then came back? Did you have the same title and responsibilities both times you worked there? Even though it was the same company, you may consider listing it twice to keep things in a chronological order that will make a little more sense. Put wherever you worked between July 2008 and July 2010 (looks like "JKL Inc") between it.

1 page or 2? Make up your mind. 1 page then only a small portion of a second page doesn't look good. With 12 years experience you should have enough to warrant 2 pages, but if it's hard to fill out a second page, it may be easier to cut it down to 1.

The Shadow

Everyone wrote: »

Margins are too small. The smallest they should be is the "Narrow" margin setting in Word, which is 0.5".

Use tables! Without borders of course. You can arrange/align things a lot nicer with tables instead of using a bunch of tabs or spaces.

You should have a summary.

Death by bullets. Not only do you only seem to only be listing responsibilities, you also start too many of them with the same word. Count how many times you started one with "Provided" or "Resolved". A good resume will show both responsibilities AND accomplishments. I prefer a paragraph outlining responsibilities followed by a couple of bullets showing accomplishments. I've had great success with that format.

Where you have "ASDF School"... looks like you worked there, left for 2 years, then came back? Did you have the same title and responsibilities both times you worked there? Even though it was the same company, you may consider listing it twice to keep things in a chronological order that will make a little more sense. Put wherever you worked between July 2008 and July 2010 (looks like "JKL Inc") between it.

1 page or 2? Make up your mind. 1 page then only a small portion of a second page doesn't look good. With 12 years experience you should have enough to warrant 2 pages, but if it's hard to fill out a second page, it may be easier to cut it down to 1.

I usually just do a one page resume, but I wanted to show all of you my work experience.

I left the ADSF School, then I got a job at "JKL" but it was a contract positon and just as it ended I got really sick for about 14 months. Once I was better I was able to go back to the school. I had the same job title.

Everyone

The Shadow wrote: »

I am all for relocating. I've had an interview for a job about 3 hours north of me, and I have interviews about 3 hours south of me.

I am trying here, I just don't want to sell myself short and work for peanuts.

Right you shouldn't ever sell yourself short, but that is exactly what your resume is doing.

I just took another glance while writing this reply and noticed "Document procures". I'm sure that is meant to say "Document procedures".

Like it_consultant said "You are not getting a good response because your resume doesn't scream high powered professional."

It seems like you have quite a bit of SMB experience, with maybe some smaller Enterprise experience put in. To make the big $$ you either need to step into larger Enterprise environments, or go MSP or consulting if you want to stay in the SMB sector. In-house SMB just won't pay the higher salaries.

eansdad

Job dates are confusing with the double date job. Going from tech coordinator to tech 2 title seems odd. Titles don't line up with job duties like Network Technician doing mostly desktop support type work. Last few jobs are mid level but short term. Looks like you left 2 jobs (tier 2 and tech co) for the sys admin position which didn't work out.

I would clean up the dates and add something next to the job like ABC Inc, - Temp Contract, then the hiring agency. This would eliminate any speculation of if you were fired or job hopping. Separate certs and education and maybe also add a skills section to help get through the HR filters. If they are looking for a systems admin with sccm exp then they might filter by sccm missing your resume. I might also take out 50 workstations part of sys admin job. Looks like a big title for a small time company. You could have been CTO but 50 users doesn't impress. Upgrade the 2003 to the MCITP:SA more and more jobs are looking for the newest certs. CCNA would also be a benifit. I'd also hold off on countering a $48k job with $70k+. I've seen people do this and not get the job.

whatthehell

Sorry to hear about your situation.

It sounds like you are done with technical support? Or looking for anything at this point? Preference in location?

@IristheAngel --- good recommendations! Do you know anyone working at Insight Global or the Cap Group? How do they like working there?

The Shadow

Everyone wrote: »

Margins are too small. The smallest they should be is the "Narrow" margin setting in Word, which is 0.5".

Use tables! Without borders of course. You can arrange/align things a lot nicer with tables instead of using a bunch of tabs or spaces.

You should have a summary.

Death by bullets. Not only do you only seem to only be listing responsibilities, you also start too many of them with the same word. Count how many times you started one with "Provided" or "Resolved". A good resume will show both responsibilities AND accomplishments. I prefer a paragraph outlining responsibilities followed by a couple of bullets showing accomplishments. I've had great success with that format.

Could you please give me an example of this format?

The Shadow

whatthehell wrote: »

Sorry to hear about your situation.

It sounds like you are done with technical support? Or looking for anything at this point? Preference in location?

@IristheAngel --- good recommendations! Do you know anyone working at Insight Global or the Cap Group? How do they like working there?

I am pretty much looking anywhere and everywhere between San Luis and San Diego. Which I've ad interviews in both places. I don't know anyone at Insight Global or the Cap Group

Iristheangel

whatthehell wrote: »

Sorry to hear about your situation.

It sounds like you are done with technical support? Or looking for anything at this point? Preference in location?

@IristheAngel --- good recommendations! Do you know anyone working at Insight Global or the Cap Group? How do they like working there?

Hey! Nice to see another OC nerd I know a few people at The Capital Group now and they claim it's awesome. I didn't choose to go that route because they tend to reup the contracts every 6 months instead of transferring to permanent employment. Great pay though and the few people I know that work with them have been there for a couple years now.
I worked through Insight Global for about 8 months and got my current job there. Insight Global is good at pushing for you to be hired as a FTE, but there have been times where they'll agree with the employer to pay the contractors X amount and then try to actually pay the contractor less so they can pocket the cash.