Thoughts: List current salary on job application?

rwmidl

A few weeks ago I was contacted via Dice from a local company interested in talking to me. After three interviews (two phone and one face to face/panel). Anyway, after the face to face interview, a few days later I was sent an application from HR (I'm thinking they are close to wanting to make an offer). One of the fields is current salary. Now, I'm not trying to jockey a huge raise (I will admit a decent one). I told HR during the first interview what my salary requirements were. My feeling is, if I've made it this far and they know/knew what I wanted, that amount is either a) in their range or b) they are going to try and lowball me assuming I get an offer.

What is everyones thoughts on not listing current salary? Is it kind of an a-hole move on my part? Is it not a big deal and I'm making it out to be a bigger deal than it is? My feeling(s) on not listing it are as follows:
1. They contacted me (granted my info was out there, but I did make it anonymous.
2. The amount I told them I would like is more than I currently make. HR offered to send me their benefit info (that's a first) and it included what my portions were. I would be paying about $130/per check more in health insurance for myself/family. Also, I'm not eligible for the 401(k) for 6 months. So I would have to do something else (after tax) until then. They also don't offer a pre-tax dependent care program.

Just curious as to everyone's thoughts.

Mrock4

rwmidl wrote: »

What is everyones thoughts on not listing current salary?

I don't like giving potential employers current salary, but push come to shove I will. That being said, generally they ask for "compensation", and I'll inflate it to include some of my benefits (ie: education, training, etc) because I do consider those compensation. Just my $.02.

TLeTourneau

I've generally not answered that question. My opinion is that the discussion should be about what I am worth to the prospective employer, not what I was worth to my current/previous employer. When I told my current employer my salary requirements they asked if that was what I was currently making and I told them it was less. I was in the odd position of taking a pay cut to go to work for them so that worked out well for me.

ptilsen

I've only been asked the question once, and I answered it truthfully and without hesitation. That was for my current job, which started my at about 38% higher than my last job. On the other hand, the job before that was a 21% raise of the job before it. I think both of those were nice jumps, so my anecdotes don't really indicate anything. That being said, my opinion is it shouldn't really matter. If it's the right place and they're going to compensate you appropriately, I don't think your previous salary should hurt. If it really hurts that much, you probably don't want to work there anyway.

paul78

I would answer it truthfully as ptilsen mentioned. I would expect any of my prospective employers would do a background check including previous employers and salaries.I work in financial services in the US and that is common practice, in a lot of cases its actually contractual.

undomiel

I now never ever put my current salary on any applications or answer any questions about my current salary. If they ask I tell them that information is private but then state the range that I am looking for. Back when I used to give my salary I found that places would come back with offers that are just a small bump over what you're currently making. Or even in one case they offered me the same salary for a city with a higher cost of living than where I currently was, and when I pointed this out they argued with me that it was the same amount that I currently make so I should be satisfied with it.

Ever since I've taken a hard line on not giving out my current salary I haven't had any arguments from potential employers requesting the information. They've been content with the requested range. It has only been recruiters that argue with me. Here is a good article on protecting your salary: Ask The Headhunter: Keep Your Salary Under Wraps

ChooseLife

I personally never reveal my current salary to anyone, including recruiters and prospective employers. It creates a lot of complexity and prejudice and sometimes awkwardness, which I prefer to avoid altogether.

When asked about the current salary in a written form, I skip the question.
If asked in a conversation , I put the following positive spin on it:

" - I am sorry, but I am not at liberty to disclose my current salary - it is a private arrangement between myself and the employer. I take the matter of maintaining confidentiality seriously, and hope you can appreciate this fact."

So far never had a problem with it, at least no one insisted after receiving this response.

Everyone

Don't do it. If you already gave them a salary range (personally I always try to get them to give me one), and that range is where you want to be, don't gimp yourself by telling them what you currently make. If they have a spot for "desired salary" on the application, feel free to fill that out since you already discussed it.

For the job I am starting in 2 weeks here, they asked my current salary, I told them I'd prefer not to disclose it, and that any offers be based on my experience and what I have to offer. They gave me the salary range. When I got to the point in the interview process that I had to fill out an application, I had to list every job I'd had within the last 7 years, and it wanted to know salary at each one, I left it blank. It asked what my desired salary was, I put in the midpoint for the range I was given. When I received my job offer, the base salary was the TOP of the range they originally gave me, about $7k HIGHER than what I put as my "desired salary". The base salary alone is a 34% raise for me.

To echo what undomiel said, giving away your salary more often than not results in offers that are only slightly higher than what you currently make. I've been there and done that as well.

To put to rest any fears about what paul78 said, background checks typically come AFTER job offers have been accepted. I've never had not answering salary history impact a background check. I just had a very extensive background check for the job I'm going into, and I did NOT answer salary questions on it either.

DevilWAH

I will always find out what the salary band they are thinking of offering before I discuss my salary. And I always give a rounded figure of my total salary + benefits from the previous year.

But as people have said there is nothing forcing you to declare it. I think it very much depends if you think you previous company was paying you fairly. IF so then it should not be a problem sharing it with a potential employer as you wage should reflect the level of work you do.

however if you feel that you are under paid significationly you may not want to reveal it as it may make a potential employer wonder why you are attempting to make such a leep upwards and if you are capable of it.

networker050184

I have no problem giving my current salary. I've never been stuck with an offer on slightly higher than what I was making either. I'm not the type to be mysterious and beat around the bush with salary. When asked I tell them what I want to make and either they pay me that or not. Every job has offered me above what I have asked so far. That's a win/win IMO. If they aren't willing to pay what I'm asking we stop the process early and stop wasting both of our precious time.

erpadmin

It's pointless NOT to put current salary, as they can contact the HR department and ask them how much you make. HR departments can legally state the following:

1) Your current title and how long you've been under that title (as well as how long you've been with the company, period).
2) Your current salary.

HR departments cannot divulge much more than that (legally). Many do find cute ways to skirt that though, but they can divulge salary if/when asked.

Also, if you work for any public sector entity, your salary is public to the entire world via your state's website. Federal employees' salary is also public.

FWIW, I listed my salary on my application. I wasn't ridiculous in asking for a range as I had an idea of what they were willing to pay. I only wanted at minimum $10k more. Got that, and ended up getting $40k more than if I had stayed with my last employer.

Everyone

erpadmin wrote: »

It's pointless NOT to put current salary, as they can contact the HR department and ask them how much you make.

Rare that this would be done outside of a background investigation, which typically doesn't happen until AFTER you've accepted an offer. They certainly do this during a background check, but I've never seen an offer rescinded or changed (i.e. lowered) once things have gotten this far simply because you didn't disclose salary history.

erpadmin wrote: »

Also, if you work for any public sector entity, your salary is public to the entire world via your state's website. Federal employees' salary is also public.

They would have to know your pay grade. It's not like they list your name and what your salary is out there for everyone to see. They list what the current pay is for a given pay grade, at least for Federal. For State, it's often title and salary that are listed. Been there, done that.

erpadmin wrote: »

FWIW, I listed my salary on my application. I wasn't ridiculous in asking for a range as I had an idea of what they were willing to pay. I only wanted at minimum $10k more. Got that, and ended up getting $40k more than if I had stayed with my last employer.

$10k isn't hard to get when you list your salary, that falls into the "slightly more" category. $40k more, you should consider yourself lucky you even got the offer. Unless of course you were coming from one of those public sector jobs we were just talking about. People are typically pretty understanding of how underpaid public sector IT is, especially if you're coming off an Active Duty enlistment with any branch of the US Military. I had about a $40k raise doing that, and it was no secret that I was an E5 or how little an E5 makes.

I can only go off my personal experience, and it has been this.

Military to Job A, salary publicly available, got an offer that was somewhere in the $35k-$40k range more. Quickly realized I was underpaid.

Job A to Job B, gave current salary, got an offer for only $10k more. Grossly underpaid, found out my salary band went up to $15k higher than what they hired me at.

Job B to Job C, gave current salary, got an offer for only $12k more, still feeling very underpaid.

Job C to Job D, did NOT give current salary, got an offer for $30k more, $162k more if I include bonuses (none of my previous jobs had bonuses). Guess what, I don't feel underpaid anymore.

I could include offers that I did NOT accept for various reasons, but I think the ones I did accept are evidence enough.

networker050184

Or maybe it was just coincidence and the last job you got happened to pay more regardless?

Everyone

networker050184 wrote: »

Or maybe it was just coincidence and the last job you got happened to pay more regardless?

Maybe... so here another example.

I interviewed for a job last year at the same time I was interviewing for Job C. I didn't give away my current salary, and was told that the salary range for the job would START at $55k more than what I was making. It also had some pretty nice bonuses and benefits. After completing the interview process and being told I was a top candidate for the job, I made the mistake of disclosing my current salary. I was quickly told "I'm sorry we can't justify paying you that much based on what your current salary is". Then I was told they could start me out at $15k higher than what I was currently making, and I could work my way up towards what the position was supposed to pay within a few years. Kinda bummed me out, but I was still excited about the job. A week later they called to tell me that they had changed there minds and would not be making me an offer after all. They told me to keep in touch and finish a few certs, then maybe they'd have something for me in 6 months. No thanks.

networker050184

Guess you should have done a few more certs.

That is a good example, but sounds like they did you a favor anyway. I'd want to work somewhere that values ability regardless of current salary.

higherho

I always get the feeling that companies ask you for your previous salary to evaluate your value. That and a good gauge on how much profit they can obtain off you because you dont understand what your worth. I always felt that their is three branches in IT to determine an individuals worth; Experience, Education, and Certification.

networker050184

The way I see it people should do their research and know what they are worth. Do not take an offer less than that unless you are desperate. If you go into the process prepared you will come out on top. If they don't want to pay what you are worth then you really don't want to work there anyway.

N2IT

erpadmin wrote: »

It's pointless NOT to put current salary, as they can contact the HR department and ask them how much you make. HR departments can legally state the following:

1) Your current title and how long you've been under that title (as well as how long you've been with the company, period).
2) Your current salary.

HR departments cannot divulge much more than that (legally). Many do find cute ways to skirt that though, but they can divulge salary if/when asked.

Also, if you work for any public sector entity, your salary is public to the entire world via your state's website. Federal employees' salary is also public.

FWIW, I listed my salary on my application. I wasn't ridiculous in asking for a range as I had an idea of what they were willing to pay. I only wanted at minimum $10k more. Got that, and ended up getting $40k more than if I had stayed with my last employer.

Agree with this.

I would like to add something else. HR is beginning to not even answer those questions, because the HR employee might slip and saying something they shouldn't say. So to mitigate against that risk, they aren't saying anything at all or sometimes just verifying they worked there. My boss and I had this discussion one time at lunch and he said this former employer would only verify dates. No titles no salary.

paul78

Everyone wrote: »

To put to rest any fears about what paul78 said, background checks typically come AFTER job offers have been accepted. I've never had not answering salary history impact a background check. I just had a very extensive background check for the job I'm going into, and I did NOT answer salary questions on it either.

Yes.Very true. I misintepreted the OP. A submission to background check should only occur after a job offer which is a condition of employment. I guess it all also depends on where you are in your career and the industry practices you are in. If you dont want to tell, don't. But I would never suggest putting anything on a job application which was not true. In most corporations, lying on a job app is terms for dismissal. But you can always omit the info or agree to provide if there was an offer or add caveats on benefits to indicate total compensation. r

rwmidl

Thanks. To be clear I wasn't saying I was "lying" or misrepresenting myself on it. I just wanted to hear everyone's thoughts. That being said, it can be a compelling argument that what I make is a private matter between myself and my current employer. In most cities/businesses, HR probably (or should) have a good pulse on what the going rate is. If they don't well maybe that is their own fault?

paul78 wrote: »

Yes.Very true. I misintepreted the OP. A submission to background check should only occur after a job offer which is a condition of employment. I guess it all also depends on where you are in your career and the industry practices you are in. If you dont want to tell, don't. But I wont never suggest putting done anything on a job application which was not true. In most corporations, lying on a job app is terms for dismissal. But you can always omit the info or agree to provide if there was an offer or add caveats on benefits to indicate total compensation. r

paul78

rwmidl wrote: »

Thanks. To be clear I wasn't saying I was "lying" or misrepresenting myself on it. I just wanted to hear everyone's thoughts. That being said, it can be a compelling argument that what I make is a private matter between myself and my current employer. In most cities/businesses, HR probably (or should) have a good pulse on what the going rate is. If they don't well maybe that is their own fault?

Right you are. If the hiring manager or HR isnt able to figure out the rates, well.. Sometimes its really just to figure out if they can offer you a lower rate. Or to figure out if you were under compensated which implies a potential issue.

I am not trying to imply you were being dishonest. Sorry if it came across that way. Some companies do have zero-tolerence and mstakes on certain topics have no exception process.

If you can keep your salary private and use it as a negotiating tactic - absolutely go for it. A good hiring manager will appreciate a mature and seasoned discussion when hiring.

ptilsen

rwmidl wrote: »

In most cities/businesses, HR probably (or should) have a good pulse on what the going rate is. If they don't well maybe that is their own fault?

Hey, in this industry, HR doesn't even know how to title our jobs properly, must less what skills, certifications, experience, education, and salary range to look for.

techdudehere

I'll let them know my current salary as soon as they let me know the former employee's salary. Perhaps, they'd like the entire staff to share salaries with one another? If they do not plan to use your current salary in negotiation, then what purpose does this information serve? In a smaller environment, one could simply ask the HR department to not disclose salary information. Unfortunately, this is unlikely to work in a larger environment, but I doubt policy would allow such disclosure in any event. I know I'd be interested in knowing what employees make when I interview, but I won't ask for that information. Likewise, I won't disclose my current salary to employers. What can be discussed is what they are prepared to pay and what I am willing to accept.

ChooseLife

Everyone wrote: »

After completing the interview process and being told I was a top candidate for the job, I made the mistake of disclosing my current salary. I was quickly told "I'm sorry we can't justify paying you that much based on what your current salary is".

This is exactly the "bias" I was talking about earlier. Proposed compensation should be based on one's value to the new company, which in turn is based on the candidate's competence in the area of expertise, his experience, and soft skills. The idea that it should in any way correlate with the candidate's previous compensation, in my opinion, is wrong, and yet this misconception seems to prevail in HR minds.

paul78

ChooseLife wrote: »

This is exactly the "bias" I was talking about earlier. Proposed compensation should be based on one's value to the new company, which in turn is based on the candidate's competence in the area of expertise, his experience, and soft skills. The idea that it should in any way correlate with the candidate's previous compensation, in my opinion, is wrong, and yet this misconception seems to prevail in HR minds.

Yes - thats just poor management decisioning. Although, I've never worked anywhere where the HR dept was authorized to make those types of decisions. I am guessing that HR making the business hiring decisions is some artifact of specific industries. Sounds like an odd practice to me.

ChooseLife

paul78 wrote: »

Sounds like an odd practice to me.

Maybe those stories stand out, but seems that more often than not, when someone discloses their current salary to the prospective employer, the latter comes back saying "since this how much you are making now, here is how much we will give you".

Heny '06

10k more than what you make or, place your total compensation not the salary only IE bonus, profitsharing, 401k etc.

Mrock4

Just to add to the conversation (again)- I did in a previous interview, disclose my previous salary (which was low, since I was in the military), and the employer immediately low-balled me, justifying it with "that's what you made, we're not paying much more than that", even though at the time, I was asking for much lower than the average for CCNP's in this area.

Current position didn't ask, gave me a salary based on my qualifications/abilities, so I never had to give it up.

erpadmin

Everyone wrote: »

Rare that this would be done outside of a background investigation, which typically doesn't happen until AFTER you've accepted an offer. They certainly do this during a background check, but I've never seen an offer rescinded or changed (i.e. lowered) once things have gotten this far simply because you didn't disclose salary history.


They would have to know your pay grade. It's not like they list your name and what your salary is out there for everyone to see. They list what the current pay is for a given pay grade, at least for Federal. For State, it's often title and salary that are listed. Been there, done that.


$10k isn't hard to get when you list your salary, that falls into the "slightly more" category. $40k more, you should consider yourself lucky you even got the offer. Unless of course you were coming from one of those public sector jobs we were just talking about. People are typically pretty understanding of how underpaid public sector IT is, especially if you're coming off an Active Duty enlistment with any branch of the US Military. I had about a $40k raise doing that, and it was no secret that I was an E5 or how little an E5 makes.

No, I was not lucky...the raises are[were] dictated by the current union contract/collective bargaining. Only reason I got 40k more was cause I stayed put for six years. My last job, I would have needed a decree from God to bump me up so much as $10k...I'd have been stuck at the same step [thanks to stupid municipal union...] Not going to tout my own horn, but the interview I had (which was a 360 interview...my first and currently only one like that) I was hitting every question they threw. Plus, I was so comfortable, that I even threw in a couple of jokes for laughs. (I was seriously looking, but I wasn't desperate either....I could have stayed put for another year, need be.)

I max out of my current title next year. By that time, I will also (hopefully) be finishing my Master's. It's going to be an interesting ride for everyone involved to see how much I'm valued....

Everyone

erpadmin wrote: »

No, I was not lucky...the raises are[were] dictated by the current union contract/collective bargaining. Only reason I got 40k more was cause I stayed put for six years. My last job, I would have needed a decree from God to bump me up so much as $10k...I'd have been stuck at the same step [thanks to stupid municipal union...] Not going to tout my own horn, but the interview I had (which was a 360 interview...my first and currently only one like that) I was hitting every question they threw. Plus, I was so comfortable, that I even threw in a couple of jokes for laughs. (I was seriously looking, but I wasn't desperate either....I could have stayed put for another year, need be.)

I max out of my current title next year. By that time, I will also (hopefully) be finishing my Master's. It's going to be an interesting ride for everyone involved to see how much I'm valued....

Again, that's a unique situation. Your union controlled wages were for a public sector job right? If so, could have been public knowledge that you were underpaid. If not, easy enough to explain that you can make a $40k pay jump because your previous salary was union controlled and you hadn't received a raise in the last 6 years. I had a job like that before, a contract with the USAF, the wages for the contract were tied to a state wage and determination scale for the state the base was located in. Never got a raise while I was there because that stupid scale never changed.

If you were not in that situation, and tried to make a $40k jump, you'd be VERY lucky to get it if you disclosed your salary. Much easier to get a big jump like that if you avoid disclosing your salary history.