How hard is it to get a job? (possible future IT student)

Technikal

I need advice, i planned on going to college for IT (with a focus in networking), but over on Dice almost everyone says its super hard to get a job and the pay isn't great especially just starting. are they exaggerating?

I don't want to have a bachelors degree and have to compete with 100's of applicants for a $12/hr help desk job lol.

Should i change career plans?

tpatt100

First bit of advice:

Don't read the Dice forums, I was updating my resume last year and noticed they had a forums section and checked it out. Holy hell the amount of angry trolling going on in there.

Second, there are too many things that can impact your job search that are different from everybody else's. Location, number of applicants, experience level, are you male, female, fat, skinny, etc etc. It really is a matter of perspective and too hard to say "it's easy" or "it's hard".

If your competing with 100s of applicants for a 12 dollar an hour job, then ask yourself "why am I competing with hundreds of people?" Is it because I am the same as them? then you need to correct that problem and find a way to make yourself stand out from the others.

You are going to hear from people "get this cert" or get that cert, if your lacking experience then get the certs and don't expect much from them until you get experience. And that is going to be hard since people are not retiring like they used to so people are staying where they are at much longer.

Network and I don't mean IT networking. Find some friend, family, church member, club member, people you play golf with etc, etc find somebody who knows you enough to trust your character to recommend you if they know of an opening.

edit: holy heck first post I see is another Indian bashing post, yup Dice forums still sucks.

ptilsen

This has not been my experience, nor the experience of my colleagues. Actually wages will vary based on a few factors, with regional cost of living differences being the greatest, but typical starting helpdesk wages are in the $13-$16 wages. A real helpdesk at $12/hr doesn't make sense in most regions for employers or employees. Employers would drive employees to get to leave for a $14-$17 job in less than a year, creating extremely high turnover (even for a helpdesk, which by almost by definition has high turnover to boot). Employees would have no justification to work in IT since they could get into low-end retail management positions making the same with far less effort.

Even if you do start your career at such a low wage, chances are, as I indicated, you'll get a substantial raise within a year.

As far as difficult finding a job, I'm not familiar with that. Of course, that is the case in some regions and some specific sectors of even IT, but overall IT is one of the fastest growing professions in the US. The medical industry is probably the only one growing faster.

I, for one, have had no major problems finding jobs over the last six or seven years. My longest stint of unemployment was less than two months. My experience during that time frame was that the low-end of the mid-range jobs (such as junior systems admins, "senior" helpdesk or DST roles, etc.) are the hardest to come by. The easiest jobs to come by are the entry-level (such as most helpdesk jobs) and the more experienced jobs (systems analyst, administrator, engineer, etc.). I don't have any hard numbers to back this observation up, just my experience as an IT professional and working with other IT professionals, mostly in my region.

Long answer made short: No, do not change your career plans. If you want to work in IT, there is good money to be made and jobs to be found.

Priston

Everyone on Dice is on Dice because they are looking for a job... Don't let them discourage you because they can't find a job.

Technikal

what about the future? how many of our jobs will continue to be outsourced to other countries? plus advancement in technology like Cloud computing will deplete the need for IT professionals in the near future, thoughts?

its between IT and medical laboratory technology as my career choices. i know i can make $30k easily with an associate degree as a medical lab technician while i probably won't be able to find an IT job without a bachelors? or has Dice mislead me a lot?


If i could get an entry level IT job with my associates, to work as im pursuing my bachelors than I will probably stay with it, but I have doubts.

N2IT

I like your idea of getting a degree. I also think it's great you have your associates. If you are on the fence about going into IT, I would consider getting a degree with a broader scope than IT. Maybe like Business Adminstration with an emphasis in IT or something similiar. Mathmatics is a solid degree as well.

That's if you are on the fence about the status of IT.

ptilsen

Technikal wrote: »

what about the future? how many of our jobs will continue to be outsourced to other countries? plus advancement in technology like Cloud computing will deplete the need for IT professionals in the near future, thoughts?

its between IT and medical laboratory technology as my career choices. i know i can make $30k easily with an associate degree as a medical lab technician while i probably won't be able to find an IT job without a bachelors? or has Dice mislead me a lot?

Cloud schmoud. Infrastructure doesn't work on magic. IT will always be a professional career, with experienced professionals' salaries somewhere around accountants', not far from lawyers'. I'm betting the rest of my life on that. Indians can do math and learn law, too. Americans will still hire Americans (or at least residents) for the good jobs for so many reasons.

I started my career in IT with an A+, 3/4 of my high school diploma, a driver's permit and a good attitude. I make way more than the average college grad and all I have is a fake AAS. I have a colleague in the same job position who has no degree. Dice forums are most likely filled with trolls, people with poor resumes/interviewing skills/job searching skills. A degree helps, but the idea that it's necessary is nuts. Most "real" schools don't even teach skills relevant to IT infrastructure. A drop-out with a A+ is more likely to be able to fix a computer than a Bachelor of Computer Science with no job experience, in my experience. I still think a degree is hugely important, and actually I think most of us should get CS degrees even to work in infrastructure. But, you don't need it to get a job.

If IT's your passion, finish your degree and don't look back. If it's not your passion, you should probably do something else.

Qord

There are WAY too many variables to answer your question. It depends on where you live, what's around and available, and what you're willing to take, as well as many other things. Don't pay any attention to job site forums, a lot of the Dice folks are mad because they can't find the job they want, not because they can't find a job in general. Beggars can't be choosers, and that crowd tends to be choosy.

N2IT wrote: »

I like your idea of getting a degree. I also think it's great you have your associates. If you are on the fence about going into IT, I would consider getting a degree with a broader scope than IT. Maybe like Business Adminstration with an emphasis in IT or something similiar. Mathmatics is a solid degree as well.

That's if you are on the fence about the status of IT.

This is exactly what I would say. Go for a broader degree if you have any doubts.

As a fair warning, your first IT job will most likely be competing with others for a low paying helpdesk gig. Look at it as an opportunity to learn, not just about IT but working in IT as well.

Zartanasaurus

Priston wrote: »

Everyone on Dice is on Dice because they are looking for a job... Don't let them discourage you because they can't find a job.

Yeah the forums on Dice are horrible. I think a lot of the people there are from California, which may have been hit harder by the recession, so their perspective of the IT field is skewed.

You don't need a Master's or a Bachelor's or even an Associate's to get started. But if you're deciding on IT vs medical laboratory technology and are afraid to do the former because the latter guarantees $30K, you give me the impression you don't have the passion for IT. Yeah, you just might have to get $12/hr or even less on a help desk to get your foot in the door. We pay the entry level folks about $15 - $16/hr here, but I've worked in places that paid much less. I started at $10/hr on a help desk.

techdudehere

It's possible to make money in IT, but it's not particularly easy. I expect most IT "growth" to be low paying positions with few benefits and stressful conditions. However, there are lots of great IT positions, too. I would look for positions with large corporations, government agencies, or Universities.

I would try to get scholarships and use grants rather than loans. Public Universities are usually a better value than private. Too many loans and you will delay saving for retirement and other important financial goals. Remember that you work to live, not live to work.

30k per year is all lab techs make? That's awful! I hope there is a path to increase earnings? I assume you live in a rural area? Unless working remotely, it will be difficult to find IT work in a rural area.

Education takes time and money, you are smart to do your research in advance, I recommend you talk to people working in at least three fields you have even the remotest interest in, just like you've done here with IT. It's better to start off on the right ladder than realize you're half way up the wrong one years later.

Technikal

ptilsen wrote: »

Cloud schmoud. Infrastructure doesn't work on magic. IT will always be a professional career, with experienced professionals' salaries somewhere around accountants', not far from lawyers'. I'm betting the rest of my life on that. Indians can do math and learn law, too. Americans will still hire Americans (or at least residents) for the good jobs for so many reasons.

I started my career in IT with an A+, 3/4 of my high school diploma, a driver's permit and a good attitude. I make way more than the average college grad and all I have is a fake AAS. I have a colleague in the same job position who has no degree. Dice forums are most likely filled with trolls, people with poor resumes/interviewing skills/job searching skills. A degree helps, but the idea that it's necessary is nuts. Most "real" schools don't even teach skills relevant to IT infrastructure. A drop-out with a A+ is more likely to be able to fix a computer than a Bachelor of Computer Science with no job experience, in my experience. I still think a degree is hugely important, and actually I think most of us should get CS degrees even to work in infrastructure. But, you don't need it to get a job.

If IT's your passion, finish your degree and don't look back. If it's not your passion, you should probably do something else.

I browsed entry level jobs and some of these employers requirements seem unfair vs the salary, it's discouraging.

Zartanasaurus wrote: »

Yeah the forums on Dice are horrible. I think a lot of the people there are from California, which may have been hit harder by the recession, so their perspective of the IT field is skewed.

You don't need a Master's or a Bachelor's or even an Associate's to get started. But if you're deciding on IT vs medical laboratory technology and are afraid to do the former because the latter guarantees $30K, you give me the impression you don't have the passion for IT. Yeah, you just might have to get $12/hr or even less on a help desk to get your foot in the door. We pay the entry level folks about $15 - $16/hr here, but I've worked in places that paid much less. I started at $10/hr on a help desk.

i haven't started school so I don't really know if i have a passion for IT, i like computers and technology/electronics that type of stuff although i wouldn't consider it a passion, but I do enjoy setting up home networks for friends/family whenever they get new internet hardware or fixing problems with existing setups. i also had to configure my own network to get my ps3 to work for online gaming, which i enjoyed even though it was a pain at times lol.

techdudehere wrote: »

30k per year is all lab techs make? That's awful! I hope there is a path to increase earnings? I assume you live in a rural area? Unless working remotely, it will be difficult to find IT work in a rural area.

30k is entry level for a 2yr degree, technicians usually make 30-50k, while technologist (4 yr degree) make 50-70k. and i live in columbus ohio, pretty big city, i live close to downtown.

It's better to start off on the right ladder than realize you're half way up the wrong one years later.

this is why i have so much thinking to do, I mean i could always continue with IT and see how it goes after my associates, get some basic certs like A+, if i'm not happy with it or can't find a job then i will just start taking classes to become a medical lab technologist. maybe do some part time pc repair on the side or something idk.

i want to become either a network/server/database administrator or engineer, just not sure if i could be committed enough to work at a crappy help desk job for 3-5 years after schooling to do so

hackman2007

I am a recent graduate, so I know the feeling you have.


What you need to figure out is...
1. What do you like specifically? You mention network/server/database administration/etc, but what in particular do you want to specialize in? Are you a network person, a system administrator, system engineer or database administrator? You need to figure this out.
2. You don't need to start out with help desk! While this is a good way to start, you don't necessarily need to start there. Don't pay attention to job descriptions, they are describing an ideal candidate.
3. Always, always, always, always do an internship, co-op, something!!!!!!!
4. Stop looking at job descriptions and figure out what you want. If you do what you like, money will follow. If you try to follow the money, you will end up in a job you hate and the money will end up disappearing.
5. I'm not sure how old you are, but yes, it is important to think about the future but try not to make that your only purpose. You only live once, enjoy it! Most of the time it's not what you know, but who you know.


What I would recommend strongly against is to just go to college without any specific goal in mind. While a degree is great, you need to have a plan. I can see you have that, which is great!

techdudehere

If I were you, I'd go with the medical lab career as long as you are certain the employment prospects are good. If you're going to get into IT, you should be aware that it will be a rough path. If you decide to start with only certifications, expect to endure the 3rd party support path which is something like a episode of Survivor. You watch in horror as your team members are tossed on a regular basis and hope you are not next. You work at a frantic pace for little pay. Only someone working for a temp agency would be jealous of your benefits package. I would say going the degree path and doing some serious internships/networking would be a much better path if getting into technology at all. I would focus on the larger organizations. If you get into the whole 3rd party situation, then you will need the highest level certs or experience as a higher level staffer to escape intense micromanagement.

Technikal

For now I know I enjoy configuring/repairing LANs, (my only IT experience really) but i have a concern about the future with the networking field, it might be fine now but how will it be 10-20 years from now, surely most of the duties handled by a network admin/engineer will be automated by software/hardware upgrades ?

I haven't really explored other aspects of IT, never done any programming etc

joshmadakor

IT is a kind of weird field. It's a very broad field and the entry/mid-level jobs are doable by most people who have half a brain. As in, the applicant pool will be huge for many low/mid level jobs. As tpatt100 suggested, you have to separate yourself from those people if you want to succeed. I suppose getting a degree will play a part in that, but it's not going to be the end-all solution.

If you want to go into IT, my advice to you would be to SPECIALIZE and become a straight PRO in an area that most people don't want to bother with; or an area that is very difficult. This will really slim down your competition. IT, having a lot of easy areas to work in makes this difficult.

For example, I would probably avoid specializing in Windows Server Administration or Desktop Support/PC repair as these are saturated by many applicants who appear to be qualified. On the flip side, areas of IT to consider specializing in might include Linux, Cisco/Networking Technologies or Database Administration.

Of course these are only my opinions, so take them how you will!

ptilsen

techdudehere wrote: »

It's possible to make money in IT, but it's not particularly easy.

If you have the passion, aptitude, and are presentable on a resume and in an interview, it's very easy. If you lack even one of these, it is not easy.

Technikal wrote: »

I browsed entry level jobs and some of these employers requirements seem unfair vs the salary, it's discouraging.

What are the requirements you're seeing, fives years of experience, knowledge of all things, MBA or MS in IT/CS/MIS, MCSE and CCNP? I'm not even joking, because I have see such job postings. I've said it so many times and I'm happy to say it again: Ignore the requirements. If you have the drive for IT and know how to present yourself to an employer, you will get the interview and the job regardless of the qualifications. HR doesn't know what the business needs, and often no one does.

Technikal wrote: »

30k is entry level for a 2yr degree, technicians usually make 30-50k, while technologist (4 yr degree) make 50-70k. and i live in columbus ohio, pretty big city, i live close to downtown.

You can make more than 30K with an A+ and no degree, again, if you present yourself well and have the drive and the skill.

Technikal wrote: »

i want to become either a network/server/database administrator or engineer, just not sure if i could be committed enough to work at a crappy help desk job for 3-5 years after schooling to do so

If you really don't want to do that, then start looking right now. Go to school part-time or at nights while working at least part-time, if not full-time. Some employers even prefer students for entry-level jobs; you're more likely to stay there until done with school and they probably don't have to pay you as much. The good news is, when you're out of school you'll have 1-3 years of experience (depending on how far along you are), which is more valuable than the degree at that point in your career anyway.

Anyhow, you work helpdesk and/or DST for 3-4 years, trying to break in an admin or engineering role around that 3-4 mark. If you work hard to get certifications and -- much more importantly -- the skills that they indicate but don't truly prove, you should have no problem.

Technikal wrote:

but i have a concern about the future with the networking field, it might be fine now but how will it be 10-20 years from now, surely most of the duties handled by a network admin/engineer will be automated by software/hardware upgrades ?

That's magic you're thinking of, not IT. Microsoft, Cisco, and the Linux developers have had more than two decades to work on this stuff, and in my opinion upgrades between software and hardware are not remotely different than they have been. The procedures to migrate various services from Windows Server 2003 to Windows Server 2008 or 2008 R2 are not really much different from NT 4.0 to 2003. In some cases they're easier, although overall it's harder, if anything, with the 64-bit transition and significant changes in the kernel and core functionality of many of those services.

NetworkingStudent

hackman2007 wrote: »

I am a recent graduate, so I know the feeling you have.


What you need to figure out is...
1. What do you like specifically? You mention network/server/database administration/etc, but what in particular do you want to specialize in? Are you a network person, a system administrator, system engineer or database administrator? You need to figure this out.
2. You don't need to start out with help desk! While this is a good way to start, you don't necessarily need to start there. Don't pay attention to job descriptions, they are describing an ideal candidate.
3. Always, always, always, always do an internship, co-op, something!!!!!!!
4. Stop looking at job descriptions and figure out what you want. If you do what you like, money will follow. If you try to follow the money, you will end up in a job you hate and the money will end up disappearing.
5. I'm not sure how old you are, but yes, it is important to think about the future but try not to make that your only purpose. You only live once, enjoy it! Most of the time it's not what you know, but who you know.


What I would recommend strongly against is to just go to college without any specific goal in mind. While a degree is great, you need to have a plan. I can see you have that, which is great!

I have an A.S.S degree in IT and I have my A+, Net, and Sec+ certifications; however, I’m still having a hard time finding an IT job. The economy is still bad, but it’s consistently getting better. My situation is different, because I work full time and I’m scared to take a contracting job. There are a few jobs I could have taken that were 3 months long, or 6 months and the contract would be over. This might be something I might have to do in the future. As far as making $12 dollars an hour, well you aren’t going to get top pay for entry level skills/ work. Although, I have seen many entry level jobs start at $15 dollars an hour, at least in MN. Now these jobs require some certifications, or specific knowledge. Also, some jobs require specific knowledge, but employers are having a hard time finding a candidate with that knowledge, so they look to entry level candidates.
Here my suggestions:

1. Ask yourself “What do I like about IT?” There are so many different paths to take, you need to decide what you like about it, and what you don’t. There is programming, database, web design security, networking, project management, ect… ect….
2. I agree with hackman …. you do should an internship using your IT skills, or your do some volunteer work using IT skills.

3. Ignore the requirements for jobs, I honestly believe these are often wish lists for employers. If you have a two year degree and the job requires a two year degree, go ahead and apply for the job. Also, if the job requires two years of experience, then go head apply, because your degree can count as experience.
4. Go to college anyways and take your general ed courses, math, science, English, at least you can get those out of the way before deciding on pursuing a career in IT. If you don’t pursue IT, you can always apply these classes to other degree programs.

5. Are just using Dice to look for IT jobs? There are several thousands of IT jobs out there on different job searching websites such as: Jobs indeed, craigslist, simply hired ect…..

6. I’m telling you from my own experience, don’t chase the money. I currently work in printing and a lot of guys I work with make pretty decent money, but they hate their job.

I want to work in IT, because I have a passion for technology, and I love to constantly be challenged and learn new things.

davidboy

I just got my first job in IT. It's similar to a help desk job but not entirely. The pay is only $11-12 but Im not complaining. I got paid the same at my last job for more difficult and labor intensive work; the job market is still sluggish here in California. I want to learn more than anything and it's relatively easy work considering I have some experience with systems admin from building and troubleshooting computers. Hopefully when I graduate, I will land a $50k job.

My suggestion is if you do decide to go for a bachelors degree, find a job while you are completing the degree. Universities have a lot of connections to employers. All three of my interviews that I received last month were all conducted at and through my school. I also received offers to interview for two other companies as well but rejected it since I already earned this position. The networking opportunities are very underrated for the benefits of going to college. Definitely take advantage of it if you decide to go.

jennifergelbert

Yes, if u think that it's your aim so you should go for it...:)

techie2012

Technikal wrote: »

I need advice, i planned on going to college for IT (with a focus in networking), but over on Dice almost everyone says its super hard to get a job and the pay isn't great especially just starting. are they exaggerating?

I don't want to have a bachelors degree and have to compete with 100's of applicants for a $12/hr help desk job lol.

Should i change career plans?

I noticed in another post that you live in the Columbus, Ohio area. So do I. Do you have any current experience in IT. If so, i'm sure I could find you a position. I'm currently a Network Engineer, just finished a contract and helping HR route resumes until my next contract starts in April. In the short time of being in the office, I understand a great deal about the candidate selection process. You wouldn't happen to be going to Columbus State Community College would you?

petedude

ptilsen wrote: »

Cloud schmoud. Infrastructure doesn't work on magic. IT will always be a professional career, with experienced professionals' salaries somewhere around accountants', not far from lawyers'. I'm betting the rest of my life on that. Indians can do math and learn law, too. Americans will still hire Americans (or at least residents) for the good jobs for so many reasons.

"Cloud schmoud" is right. It's buzzword hype, like the Year 2000 bug or "dot com". Cloud IT infrastructures basically revolve around outsourcing your IT, which is not something every company can do. Even when companies succeed in "moving to the cloud", they will still need people to manage that connection and the service providers need people to babysit their "cloud" resources.

As far as offshoring-- it's extremely difficult to fly someone over from India every time a company VP forgets how to use a Windows login screen when they come back from vacation. Similar deal to "cloud schmoud" above.

If IT's your passion, finish your degree and don't look back. If it's not your passion, you should probably do something else.

It's good advice. I know of one IT "professional" who's been in desktop support over 10 years, does not have any formal education beyond high school (not even certs), and has off-hours artistic pursuits as the actual passion. This individual has no technical foundations beyond rote break-fix, earns half again or more above what most people would get paid with the same skillset in this market, and has to constantly rely on butt-kissing and back-stabbing to maintain this position. It's a crying shame. You do not want to live that kind of life.

Sponx

Takes time and dedication to get any job... There are always openings, you just have to have the right vision to be able to see them. I know several of my friends and even family members that talk about how they can't find a job.. However, the ones that have the jobs I never knew why they didn't. Make sense?

I went from running my own business, to working at Staples, to working End User Support as I am now... There is always an area for growth, and you can always work to succeed in any profession.

Don't be afraid of 'The Cloud'; utilize the openings it may offer. A lot of cloud based solutions (if done in house) need to be managed on a server/network level. If they outsource it you will need someone to manage the connections, security, and configuration(s). I wouldn't be too worried about it!

However, I do agree it's a "Hype" word as of right now. Still a lot of unknowns with it, and it will take a lot of companies several years to adapt to it (even if they do... You have to still consider HIPPA/Gov/State regulations and privacy they have to abide by.)