CCNP ROUTE: FLG vs OCG comparison.

Roguetadhg

Okay. So I picked up the hardcover books for CCNP Route: Official Certification Guide and Foundation Learning Guide.

I have mixed feelings and mixed impressions.

It seems like the Foundation Learning Guide doesn't teach as strict to the Official Certification Guide:
"As detailed in the Cisco Press Book, Authorized Self-Study Guide: Designing for Cisco Internetwork Solutions (DESGN),..." [Pg 15]

I'm still deep into the "Designing" aspect. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the lengthy talks about the different modules, and how everything coexists - gives a better view point for what networks are actually like.

Is this because the FLG seems like it's made to tailor to three cert tracks NP/DP/IP, mean while the OCG only looks at NP/DP? There seems to be a lot more focus on just Routing and Switching instead of designing for the OCG. What do you ladies and gentlemen have to think about these two books?

I am going to be reading both, Diane definitely gets to the point without fluff. I can appreciate this. So much so it seems like Im reading a college-level book. However, Odom may explain something better. Nevertheless, i think the two viewpoints will be good for me.

wave

I used the OCGs for the CCNA and I'm using the FLGs for the CCNP.

Design is a part of the CCNP R&S track so you need to know it. Diane covers design methodology throughout the FLGs which is great.

The OCGs have a structure to them that is very exam focused where as the FLG is in much in depth. I'm an FLG convert now.

Roguetadhg

I've heard bad things about the SWITCH books. Both OCG and FLG do not seem to cover the material well enough.

I don't know, just what i've heard from Amazon's reviews, as well as Techexam posts.

wave

Roguetadhg wrote: »

I've heard bad things about the SWITCH books. Both OCG and FLG do not seem to cover the material well enough.

I don't know, just what i've heard from Amazon's reviews, as well as Techexam posts.

Personally, I would rely more on the folks here than Amazon. I haven't read many negatives on the SWITCH book - will have to search for some posts. Would be keen to hear some other peoples thoughts on the SWITCH FLG.

Nate--IRL--

I have both, I have to say I don't like the FLG. It just feels like there is little structure to it - and the presentation of the subject matter I feel is lacking. However, that said I do think it is an excellent reference book - in that if I need to look something up it has a wealth of information. But I don't think it teaches subjects very well.

Nate

NetworkVeteran

Roguetadhg wrote: »

It seems like the Foundation Learning Guide doesn't teach as strict to the Official Certification Guide:

I've read the FLG (except chapters one and seven--they seemed fluffy!) and I agree with the Amazon reviews that Diane's writing is accurate and anything but a rehash of IOS documentation. It's refreshing! The OCG has many negative reviews for errata, and I stopped reading Routing Simplified early on--it annoyed me. The FLG will be my only text for the written portion of the ROUTE exam.

Are you saying the FLG is light on design? I'd agree. There's no mention of what model routers to place in particular roles, for example, or best practices for dividing an OSPF domain into areas. I didn't see anything like that on the exam objectives or sample questions, however? Thankfully! That stuff has such short-term and vendor-specific value compared to understanding the types of LSAs or adjacency states. She does give you the tools, if not the best practices, for deciding how where to place ABRs and ASBRs and both the pros and (refreshingly, again!) the cons of summarization. And I do feel like I grasp the trade-offs and implications of different ways of divvying up a frame-relay cloud. Thoughtful end of chapter questions, too!

wave

Nate--IRL-- wrote: »

I have both, I have to say I don't like the FLG. It just feels like there is little structure to it - and the presentation of the subject matter I feel is lacking. However, that said I do think it is an excellent reference book - in that if I need to look something up it has a wealth of information. But I don't think it teaches subjects very well.

Nate

IMO The OCG sort of feels like there's someone holding your hand walking you through the exam topics step by step. The downside is that you need to look the odd thing up here and there because it doesn't cover everything in great detail. The FLG gives you much more detail upfront and they even have little notes saying e.g. "we tested this in a lab and found that it actually behaves likes this...and this when..."

NetworkVeteran

The FLG gives you much more detail upfront and they even have little notes saying e.g. "we tested this in a lab and found that it actually behaves likes this...and this when..."

I loved, loved, loved this! Too often Cisco-sourced books blindly trust Cisco documentation. She's like an insider-outsider.

wave

NetworkVeteran wrote: »

Are you saying the FLG is light on design? I'd agree. There's no mention of what model routers to place in particular roles, for example, or best practices for dividing an OSPF domain into areas. I didn't see anything like that on the exam objectives or sample questions, however?

I think it's important that you know your PPDIOO/Design...I don't think there will be questions on what model routers to place where. But I'm sure there will be PPDIOO questions. It isn't a Design exam like the CCDA or ARCH but Cisco want to start injecting design knowledge.

From the exam objectives:

- Determine network resources needed for implementing EIGRP in a network
- Document the verification results for an EIGRP implementation
- Determine network resources needed for implementing OSPF on a network
- Document the verification results for an OSPF implementation plan
- Determine network resources needed for implementing eBGP on a network
- Document verification results for an eBGP implementation plan
- Determine network resources needed for implementing IPv6 on a network
- Document verification results for an IPv6 implementation plan
- Create a redistribution implementation plan based upon the results from a redistribution analysis
- Document results of a redistribution implementation and verification plan
- Create a Layer 3 path control implementation plan based upon the results of the redistribution analysis
- Document results of a Layer 3 path control implementation and verification plan

Roguetadhg

OCG covered all of PPDIOO within a few pages. If that. I remember chapter 1 basicly as "This is how you prepare for the exam... and here's some design stuff". I think as a table?

I'm about to head out the... okay, now im late to leave the office. ...

wave

Roguetadhg wrote: »

OCG covered all of PPDIOO within a few pages. If that. I remember chapter 1 basicly as "This is how you prepare for the exam... and here's some design stuff". I think as a table?

I haven't seen it, but if it was that light weight I would be worried. The OCG seems to be good at telling you what you know, but not always explaining why nor fleshing out the detail.

NetworkVeteran

I haven't seen it, but if it was that light weight I would be worried.

I checked the PPDIOO pages from Amazon.com. Aha! "No such example implementation plan or verification example exists in this book because no one specific type of plan matters on the exam. In fact, the Cisco authorized course for this exam, also called ROUTE, does not offer a particular style or type of implementation or verification plan.. Every company does something different."

That last bit is the reality, and why I tend to give little weight to Cisco's designs, methodologies, etc.

(ISO, on the other hand, has teeth, and companies do pay lip service to it annually!)

Thanks for mentioning PPDIOO! I might have missed it and it seems like a cursory knowledge is required. They have a table defining: FCAPS, ITIL, TMN, Cisco Lifestyle Services, and PPDIOO. I'll write my one-line version of each before considering that covered.

wave

http://www.techexams.net/forums/ccnp/75448-ppdioo-implementation-verification-reference-material.html

NetworkVeteran

wave wrote: »

http://www.techexams.net/forums/ccnp/75448-ppdioo-implementation-verification-reference-material.html

ISO PDAC:
(Plan - Do - Check - Act)
Plan: Establish goals, baseline, output expectations and determine the changes needed to meet them.
Do: Implement those changes! Collect data to verify the results.
Check: Compare how those results from DO correspond to the expectations from PLAN
Act: Take corrective action as needed, or repeat the entire cycle

Cisco PPDIOO:
(Prepare - Plan - Design - Implement - Operate - Optimize)
Prepare: check customer requirements, do a current state assessment and survey, make a high-level design
Plan: create functional requirements, create test plan, describe how this meets customer requirements
Design: create a low-level network design
Implement: implement (perhaps on testbed first) and create log, test according to plan and create log
Operate: business as usual--the longest phase. Root-cause-analyze any failures.
Optimize: new requirements, minor or major, trigger a repeat of this process.

Not too different, really, in terms of what they say. They focus on slightly different aspects--

ISO PLAN = Cisco Prepare, Plan, Design (Cisco has more states for planning)
ISO DO, CHECK, ACT = Cisco Implement, Optimize (ISO has more states for verification)

Cisco's OPERATE is the only unmapped state. From an ISO perspective, improvement should be a continual process, and so they don't specify a business-as-usual / minimal change state as Cisco does.

wave

I'm expecting a little more detail....I read this forum post a couple of weeks back which made me think I needed to put a little more work in in this area:

pert wrote: »

I'm getting ready to take the Route exam. I have already finished Switch. My problem on switch were all the questions that referenced a planning, verification, or implementation plan. I did excellent on all the sections, except for that specific subgroup regarding plans. The 1 chapter in the OCG was woefully inadequate in preparing me for the exam questions on the various plans. I don't want to get caught by surprise again. Is there a specific chapter in a book that will adequately prepare me for these?

http://www.techexams.net/forums/ccnp/75380-whats-good-resource-document-plan-verification-questions-np-route.html#post615621

NetworkVeteran

wave wrote: »

I'm expecting a little more detail....I read this forum post a couple of weeks back which made me think I needed to put a little more work in in this area:

Wave, I already took the SWITCH exam. The documentation / planning / verification questions were in-line with what the OCG says. They didn't require any particular knowledge of a Cisco methodology, although they did require you had some grasp of the impact of your actions and put some thought into what would be most important for customer satisfaction.

Now, the hierarchical Core/Distribution/Access model, and Cisco's Enterprise Composite Model, those should be known.

But they fortunately don't change from exam to exam.

wave

Okay, good to know....thanks, I'll take your word for it.