Why "network engineer"

fredmoogie

so many individuals and/or companies use the term "network engineer" in their title when they have no basic cisco, subnet, osi model?

i see many windows/sys/server admin with only AD, GPO skills called themselves network engineer/admin.

a few consulting companies send out their field network engineer, but yet know absolutely nothing about CLI, basic switch/routing technologies, broadcast domains, etc.....so, they can billed the title into their invoice. all the techs can do primarily is fix/break windows pc.

have u experience this?

WafflesAndRootbeer

It's normal and it has been normal since IT got labeled as the "get money now" career in the last decade. Outsourcing has pretty much guaranteed that you don't get quality service or qualified support for your money but it's cheaper than having someone who actually knows what they are doing and has experience to back it up. It also doesn't help that the certification schemes and processes are still built around the IT industry of the 90's and have not evolved to reflect today's IT world.

Novalith478

WafflesAndRootbeer wrote: »

It's normal and it has been normal since IT got labeled as the "get money now" career in the last decade. Outsourcing has pretty much guaranteed that you don't get quality service or qualified support for your money but it's cheaper than having someone who actually knows what they are doing and has experience to back it up. It also doesn't help that the certification schemes and processes are still built around the IT industry of the 90's and have not evolved to reflect today's IT world.

You can't outsource network engineering. Someone from India can't be on site to run your network. Same with Sysadmin.

I think what OP mentioned is just another case of people over blowing their title and failing to see their own actual skills. For example, when a sewer cleaner calls himself a "sanitation engineer".

TheCudder

Novalith478 wrote: »

You can't outsource network engineering. Someone from India can't be on site to run your network. Same with Sysadmin.

I think what OP mentioned is just another case of people over blowing their title and failing to see their own actual skills. For example, when a sewer cleaner calls himself a "sanitation engineer".

Outsourcing doesn't necessarily mean over-seas. Plenty of companies stateside outsource portions of their internal IT departments. I provide dedicated on site desktop support for an IT service provider for another company. And when it comes to government contracting, I know exactly what the OP means. These IT service providers are using over-exaggerated titles for the techs they bring in just so they can bill the customer at a higher rate.

ptilsen

Actually I think OP is simply referring to poor diction. Some organizations refer to systems engineers (be it Windows, Nix, something else, or any combination thereof) as network engineers. After all, almost all computers are networked, and with few exceptions a systems engineers works with services that go over the network. The word "network" isn't necessarily restricted to routing, switching, and the like, and I think that's led to some over-use of the term.

I'm not saying I agree with it, but I don't necessarily think it's malicious (in this context), either. My own organization (a small MSP) frequently referred to us as network engineers before I pointed out that it was really not a standard title for Windows systems engineers.

The only sad part is that many relatively successful engineers make it far into their career without a sufficient understanding of the OSI model and basic networking concepts. That said, I don't think the problem is that widespread, and generally a systems engineer who doesn't know at least the basics is going to have other deficiencies that become evident in his work.

ColbyG

Novalith478 wrote: »

You can't outsource network engineering.

Of course you can. Enterprise network engineering can be done from anywhere provided there is a person to provide hands onsite. It's less than ideal in many cases, but my last employer offshored levels 1-3 of EVERYTHING (systems, network, voice, etc).

Novalith478

ColbyG wrote: »

Of course you can. Enterprise network engineering can be done from anywhere provided there is a person to provide hands onsite. It's less than ideal in many cases, but my last employer offshored levels 1-3 of EVERYTHING (systems, network, voice, etc).

Yikes. I wonder if the cost/benefit was really there, that's a decision that might hurt in the long run.

VAHokie56

I worked for a company once that had off-site engineers but in truth they where really just like dispatchers. They typically would get a ticket and not even try and troubleshoot it and pass it on to us.

WafflesAndRootbeer

TheCudder wrote: »

Outsourcing doesn't necessarily mean over-seas. Plenty of companies stateside outsource portions of their internal IT departments. I provide dedicated on site desktop support for an IT service provider for another company. And when it comes to government contracting, I know exactly what the OP means. These IT service providers are using over-exaggerated titles for the techs they bring in just so they can bill the customer at a higher rate.

Indeed. I haven't worked on a gig where any component of IT was done in-house in a very long time and the difference in quality and service between what I started out with and what I see happening now is like a whack to the groin with a sledge hammer, it is THAT bad.

Roguetadhg

Whys this?

Wouldn't it make sense for those persons working as the 'outsourced' places to have better experience with various technologies, topologies, and different networks?

Im sure that they don't know every subtle nuance with the network, traffic, security. But with given a good enough documentation, they should be as good as the in-house?

Tackle

OP, I know exactly what you mean. My title and the Boss's title are Assistant Network Engineer and Senior Network Engineer. The most networking we do are manage 3 switches via GUI (Not Cisco), and manage the Firewall, GUI as well. We do not manage the companies Router.

Sys Admin or Engineer would be more fitting.

Heero

Roguetadhg wrote: »

Whys this?

Wouldn't it make sense for those persons working as the 'outsourced' places to have better experience with various technologies, topologies, and different networks?

Im sure that they don't know every subtle nuance with the network, traffic, security. But with given a good enough documentation, they should be as good as the in-house?

The problem is that they are not a part of your company. They are a 3rd party that exists to make money. They make more profit by billing a client more hours, by hiring people that aren't skilled for less money, and in general by doing as little as possible by trying to make the client pay as much as possible.

Now there are plenty out places that do quality work for their clients, but their financial motivation is not in the clients best interests.