New Graduate can't find IT job.

New2ITinCali

I am so desperate at this time. I just graduated with my BA in Managment Information Systems and I cannot find a job. Everytime I look at job vacanies they require at least 1-2 years experience. Here are the skills and knowledge I have:

5 month internship at a government facility in Bay Area working with the DBA. She trained me in Microsoft SQL, ASP.NET, Visual Studio and C#. I also assisted the Help Desk and took calls and assisted in hands-on work such as installing ram into the computers of staff members and upgrading Microsoft Office Suite for staff members. I also was trained in Networking and I attended training in Fiber Optic cables and CAT5. The manager of the department has allowed me to continue training in the department and to assist in Sharepoint, which they will be implementing soon.

Courses I've taken related to my IT degree:
Oracle SQL
Network Communications
Visual Basic (programming)
Management Information Systems
Network Security.

I've applied to entry-level positions and I never get a response and when I do, they picked someone with more qualifications. I am getting frustrated, what can I do to get my foot in the door?

techdudehere

What positions are you applying for, which industries, what do you want to do, and what size of company? Since you've completed your degree and it sounds like you have some experience with databases, I am wondering if you've looked at credit companies and associated businesses?

New2ITinCali

I've been applying for jobs in programming or anything related to SQL, since I've obtained the most experience in these areas. I've even applied to entry-level Help Desks positions for the heck of it and I still am not able to get in. Although I did have 2 interviews. The first interview was with the facility in which I interned and I haven't heard anything. I called to ask and they said they cannot disclose anything yet because with the government everything is slow and because of all the red-tape, it'll take a while before they get approval for the hire. So that one is up in the air. The other interview I had is with an IT Consulting firm in San Francisco. I had a phone interview a month ago and I haven't heard anything yet. I've basically been applying for Programming, SQL and Help Desks jobs, all entry-level.

Essendon

You've GOT to work on some cert, be it the CCENT, the A+, the N+ or something entry-level. Something that'll help your resume stand out from the pile.

Take apart an old 'puter and put it back together, get your hands dirty on something. You can put this on your resume too, might show to the prospective employer that you eager to learn and not having a job doesnt deter you from learning on your own.

Maybe your resume isnt upto scratch? Maybe you should post it on here so we can critique it and hopefully you'll get more bite.

When I got my Master's degree several years ago, I foolishly thought (or was led to believe) that employers would be lining up to take me on board, very wrong.

Work on a cert and keep flooding your resume all over. Hang in there, it's a hard industry to get into, once your in there it's rewarding.

erpadmin

I just went to indeed and linkedin and I saw a bunch of positions for "junior developer" in the bay area. They're there.

Also, if you're going to focus on developing (programming) then your resume needs to be tailored to that. That's great that you have Networking knowledge, but unless you're going to program around the TCP/IP stack, then you need to make sure your resume is all about that.

A lot of companies would love to hire a junior developer because in the beginning your pay will be on the low side. The flip side to that is as you gain experience, the salary can increase. But your resume needs to focus on both programming languages and SQL.

SteveLord

Dont forget Craigslist if you arent already using it.

Roguetadhg

If you haven't accidentally cut yourself on a steel computer case yet. It should be one of those "Trials" that every computer person needs to go through.

Nobylspoon

Have you considered applying for a QA Technician position with a software company? I work for a Global 500 software company and a lot of our dev team has started in QA.

Also, I have noticed that certifications are not nearly as important within the software side of IT as they are the networking side. I'm not saying they are a waste of time, just saying that the experience you gain from the course holds a lot more weight than the paper itself. Granted, that is how all of IT should be, we all know that isn't always the case...

JayTheCracker

which do u prefer?
windows, web, mobile ? or
some exp will get u to junior System Analysis positions too

the_Grinch

How long have you been looking? It took me 8 months to get a job from the time I graduated. Have you posted your resume here for review? Always remember, your resume is a tool to sell yourself with so it must be good. That will get you to the interview stage and then you can shine through. Takes time, so don't get discouraged...we've all been there.

kurosaki00

Never, never graduate from college without experience (if you can help it).
While you are in college its way easier to land internships, coops, temp jobs etc.
Even if they are "free"/non paid.

I had a lot of trouble when I graduated from college because of I didnt got enough experience while I was studying.

The past is the past ... cant do much about it.
For now, pick a career path(at least for now)
and concentrate on certifications for that path
do labs, do volunteer job
and keep applying.

kremit

Experience and certifications don't matter in the networking world unless you know the right people. There are people where I work now that don't even have their CCNA and are managing Cisco routers. Or don't know anything on computer repair and get formal training in it for free while getting a promotion. Or get promoted to supervising a programming team and don't know anything about it.

You have to network to get anywhere. Someone can have a degree in criminal justice, don't know a lick about IT field, and still get a job because they know the right person.

Sorry for all the edits. But after thinking about what I typed, it didn't make sense to the real world.

techdudehere

I would think that development would be fairly easy for you to get into. What programming courses did you take? I made the mistake of listing some programming I did as a volunteer on a resume and I got more calls about that than the stuff I wanted to do. If you want to do development, list anything development related even course names and such if you don't have enough experience to fill a page. There are tons of software projects you can do as a volunteer. Find organizations you care about or which are well known and volunteer. They may even write a letter of recommendation for you. I would not apply at an IT consulting firm, they will likely be looking for someone with experience. I would apply at large corporations and especially their sister companies. They will likely be interested in someone that they can bring up through the ranks if you seem friendly, well dressed, and professional.

ptilsen

kremit wrote: »

Experience and certifications don't matter in the networking world unless you know the right people. There are people where I work now that don't even have their CCNA and are managing Cisco routers. Or don't know anything on computer repair and get formal training in it for free while getting a promotion. Or get promoted to supervising a programming team and don't know anything about it.

You have to network to get anywhere. Someone can have a degree in criminal justice, don't know a lick about IT field, and still get a job because they know the right person.

Sorry for all the edits. But after thinking about what I typed, it didn't make sense to the real world.

So your advice is, quite literally, that cronyism is the only way to succeed in IT. Sorry, but that's horrible. I've yet to get any job because I knew anyone at the company. I've yet to get promotions because of knowing people or being friends with the boss. When I really think about it, I don't know many people who have -- certainly none in this industry.

1. Get skills
2. Get credentials
3. Apply
4. ???
5. Profit!

That is more realistic advice than "know people".

If OP really wants to work in programming, certifications are probably not the starting point. Certifications can and should get you your first job in IT infrastructure, but if infrastructure is not OP's goal then let's not steer him in that direction. Yes, there are programming certifications. Yes, some organizations value. However, they are more often than not unnecessary to a develop. At least, that has been my experience in knowing developers. I am not one, so I cannot speak from much first-hand experience.

If OP does want infrastructure, start studying right away. Most of what you learned in college doesn't apply. I'm not saying it isn't valuable, but the knowledge taught in an MIS degree don't enable you to design, maintain, or fix a network or server.

As far as getting the actual job, no matter what track of IT you want, your ability to present yourself are often more important than experience, skills, education, or certification. Having a well written resume and knowing how to interview is key.

Daniel333

We're sitting on 2% unemployment in IT in SF right now. So I think there is something wrong here. How about sending me your resumes? I'd like to see your IT resume vs your programming resume.

Also tell me more about how your cert path? Volunteer work? You should certainly not be too proud to snag a job at Geek Squad in the mean time.

djfunz

kremit wrote: »

Experience and certifications don't matter in the networking world unless you know the right people.

I hate to say it, but I'm starting to get the feeling that kremit is right. It's just the way it is in the corporate world. It's why the saying "It's not what you know, but who you know" exists. Get in somewhere, anywhere and make friends with the right people with the right connections, and you'll go further. It's why soft skills are so important.


*edit

...and by the way, kremit said acquiring something in the network world. Network positions.
Anybody with a decent personality and an A+ can get a Help Desk position.

eserfeliz

djfunz wrote: »

I hate to say it, but I'm starting to get the feeling that kremit is right. It's just the way it is in the corporate world. It's why the saying "It's not what you know, but who you know" exists. Get in somewhere, anywhere and make friends with the right people with the right connections, and you'll go further. It's why soft skills are so important.


*edit

...and by the way, kremit said acquiring something in the network world. Network positions.
Anybody with a decent personality and an A+ can get a Help Desk position.

Correlation does not denote causation. Anecdotes are nice to illustrate examples of your personal perception of the world, but they do not necessarily represent reality. I was in the Help Desk for five years before I was promoted to the NOC. In that time, I went back to school, got my Network+ certification (along with some other certs), and tried to present myself as a professional employee to management. I also spoke to the Network Manager and made myself available to work in the NOC.

So: did I get my job from "knowing" the network manager, or was it the fact that I studied and worked hard? Was it a combination of these factors? No one can really say. It seems misguided, however, to state definitively that the only way to become a network technician is to network one's way in, experience and education be damned.

Plantwiz

ptilsen wrote: »

So your advice is, quite literally, that cronyism is the only way to succeed in IT. Sorry, but that's horrible. ....snip.....

While I cannot speak for kermit, I can say that people networking matters a great deal when it comes to landing a great job.
It may not be that it is a case of nepotism, but simply a friend of a friend 'knows' of you and how you work, so they grant a favor (or chance) to you because on someone's word, the candidate is 'good'.

Certainly, I've seen people land jobs who have no business in the position simply because of nepotism. Though nepotism and 'favors for friends' are not quite the same. Personal referrals do run strong in several circles I know. There was a time I had no one I could recommend to work for a company, simply because I knew they would not make a good impression or do their best, and therefore wouldn't recommend them. However, I have been able to recommend several people I know (some better than others, with some by reputation only) and they (to my knowledge) are all still working in those companies (so 10+ years now).

Volunteering, internships (non-paying ones particularly), and people networking (the original 'social' networking, not this onilne crap of today ) have been long standing ways to assess an applicants gifts and talents they bring.

To the OP, have you considered job shadowing yet? Who have you interviewed with and offered them your time for a week, two or a month to 'test' you out. No risk, simply a try before 'buy' or sign on offer? Consider from the organizations viewpoint of taking a risk on a young person fresh from school vs. someone with a few years of experience (and still young...i.e. less expensive and less rooted in a habit) who they can train up quickly to meet their needs? Or, have you considered offering them a contract for a particular assignment? Try doing contract work for them to spare them the risk from all the under appreciated benefits a full-time employee receives, but they can (under a temp-contract) test you out without worrying about insurance, vacation, etc... OR, have you signed up with a temp agency? This is a great way to 'get into' a position whereby the company can test you out, but not as risky for them as an independent is...meaning, if you don't work out, they simply call the temp agency and another candidate comes down to work.


Without meeting you, I'd look at trying to improve your 'first' impression. Whether by phone, letter or in person, whatever you are doing and however you are doing it, may need to be refined a little.

Keep trying!

docrice

I've gotten most of my jobs (IT or not) because I knew someone. Knowing the right people in the right places can enormously help. You still have to put in your effort and be able to do the work well enough for your connections to consider you, but having those connections provides a definite advantage compared to going in cold. Whenever co-workers at any organization I've worked at are looking for a candidate, they'll always ask around the office if they know someone who might be interested in position x. There's a certain amount of implied trust when there's a reference from someone you know, fair or not.

But you can't be a fake and be that person who's nice just to get hooked up. Being genuine helps your social and professional credentials in the corporate world. In many cases, it's not just about raw skills but whether the folks hiring you think you're compatible enough to work with day after day.

tpatt100

Read up on creating your "personal brand". For example this is a good article on it, I read a couple of books on the subject:


http://mashable.com/2009/02/05/personal-branding-101/

Essentially build yourself a "rep" online and offline. I did this without knowing it earlier in my career. Guy I sat next to in class got hired at a defense contractor he remembered me and seeked me out to get me an interview when an opening occured. I had 1 Microsoft exam, the A+ and no experience, was working at a home improvement store selling tools. He spoke with his manager and the people he worked with and told them about me and how ambitious/smart I was and I got the job OVER people with degrees. People hiring have to rely mostly on your early experience because they don't know you. If people can vouch for you and give first hand experience that you are not a moron that is worth slightly more than a little experience and more certs.

1. LinkedIn: setup a profile and engage in the communities and contribute intelligent comments.
2. Facebook: Create a professional profile and do lots of volunteer work and get letters of recommendation.
3. Volunteer: I built my initial rep by volunteering my services to friends and family members. Word got out I was the go to techie at my Guard unit and referals started coming in. Didn't result in a job but who knows it might work for you.

New2ITinCali

Thanks to everyone for your feedback! I greatly appreciate it.

I agree networking with contacts in the I.T. field is very important. I met some very talented programmers while I was interning and many of them did not have any college education and just "fell" into the I.T. field, if you will. I learned a great deal on my internship and as I stated I did have a hiring interview with the department, but it is a government agency so things are really slow. I am crossing my fingers that I do get hired. If not, I'll keep searching.

I didn't know I could qualify for a Junior Developer. Most of those ad's I see on Craigslists require the potential candidates to have at least 1 or 2 years of experience if I'm not mistaken.

Here are my qualifications:

BA Managment Information Systems
- Oracle SQL
- Database Management
- Mangement Information Systems (Relational Databases)
- Network Security
- Network Communications
- Visual Basic (programming)

5 month internship at a government facility asissting the DBA and training in ASP.NET, Visual Studio and Microsoft SQL

Valsacar

I'd say that you should apply for something, even if you don't meet all of the qualifications. A lot of the time job postings are for the ideal candidate, but when they don't get that guy they might take someone with less experience but the right attitude.

Obviously there is a limit here, applying for a job that says needs a 4 year but you only have an associates (or maybe none, but decent certs and exp) is fine but applying for a job that says PhD is a waste of everyone's time.

Akaricloud

How confident are you that your resume is perfect and you're nailing the interviews? -It doesn't much matter what experience you have or what you know if you can't professionally convey it to the places that you're applying to.

Most of the time that I hear people complain about not being able to find a job either their resume is garbage or they are horrible at interviewing. Both can be quite easily fixed but not until one is identified as a problem.

I'd suggest posting up your resume for us to go through; It's made a huge difference for a lot of our members.

As a recent MIS grad myself I can't imagine not being able to find a job right now. Seems everywhere I look there are jobs that I could quite easily get.

EZ21

New2ITinCali wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for your feedback! I greatly appreciate it.

I agree networking with contacts in the I.T. field is very important. I met some very talented programmers while I was interning and many of them did not have any college education and just "fell" into the I.T. field, if you will. I learned a great deal on my internship and as I stated I did have a hiring interview with the department, but it is a government agency so things are really slow. I am crossing my fingers that I do get hired. If not, I'll keep searching.

I didn't know I could qualify for a Junior Developer. Most of those ad's I see on Craigslists require the potential candidates to have at least 1 or 2 years of experience if I'm not mistaken.

Here are my qualifications:

BA Managment Information Systems
- Oracle SQL
- Database Management
- Mangement Information Systems (Relational Databases)
- Network Security
- Network Communications
- Visual Basic (programming)

5 month internship at a government facility asissting the DBA and training in ASP.NET, Visual Studio and Microsoft SQL

Hello, my name is Ernest
I went through the exact same issues that you are currently going through. I graduated from a Cal State University in Management Information Systems with your exact qualifications. Fast foward a year later, I was hired as the Technology/ Information Systems Technician for a K-8th grade school district, with "NO" expierence. The way in which I was hired was specificly my personality durning the interview. Since you already have your degree, "Networking" is key. I won't lie, I got hired off of luck, but having good connections are "KEY". I think you just need to learn how to network better. Open yourself to new/different things that you would'nt have before. And lastly, "Don't be to proud to start at the bottom making less than $10/hr if you had to. Be flexable and hang in there, something will eventualy happen.

kremit

Plantwiz wrote: »

While I cannot speak for kermit, I can say that people networking matters a great deal when it comes to landing a great job.

That was the point i was trying to bring across here. I know here in AZ it is important to have connections. Unless I have 5 to 10 years continual experience in something, I will never get hired, unless I know someone that can vouch for me. I can't imagine it wouldn't be different in any other major city. Hundreds of applications and IT gets a recommendation of someone, who do you think they will interview first?

I don't have 20 years of management experience or 10 years being a network administrator, or engineer, where I can walk into a company and say, "hire me, you don't need anyone else." I have 10 years experience fixing computers, assisting network administrators, and running network cable, but what monkey doesn't? There is no way to get my foot in the door unless I know someone. I've seen it time and time again. Experienced it time and time again.

In addition op, your skill set, with certifications, is similar to system administrator requirements I've seen. CCNA, MCSE, and java were the requirements i saw at this one job. As others here has told me, job requirements are a shopping list, you don't have to fill in all, just some. I hope you get a job, im tired of people in IT having difficulties.

NetworkVeteran

New2ITinCali wrote: »

I am so desperate at this time. I just graduated with my BA in Managment Information Systems

The MIS (as opposed to CS or EE) is already one knock against an entry-level technical position. MIS has the stigma--fair or not--of being the degree that those who can't pass CS or EE get, and in any event it's not a heavyweight science degree.

I'd suggest getting some relevant certifications and focus on those rather than your degree.

N2IT

NetworkVeteran wrote: »

The MIS (as opposed to CS or EE) is already one knock against an entry-level technical position. MIS has the stigma--fair or not--of being the degree that those who can't pass CS or EE get, and in any event it's not a heavyweight science degree.I'd suggest getting some relevant certifications and focus on those rather than your degree.

Universities have even gone beyond that now. If the MIS program is to challenging they have an ITSM version you can attend. The candidates coming out of the program I am thinking of (which will remain nameless unless you PM me), have very little skills to prepare them for even help desk. Some of these graduates have a hard time grasping high level concepts of the enterprise. Even after some solid exposure. I agree if at all possible get your bachelors in EE, CS, Finance, Mathematics, Statistics. Those are heavy hitters and a lot of the people I know who advance through the ranks in multiple enterprises have those degrees. Human Resource synchs up with HRIS Finance and Accounting synch up with ERP Finance and Controlling the core module in most/all ERP'sComputer Science what can you say? It's an awesome degree and everyone I know with that degree, (not many), are doing very well on the technical side. Most are programmers that make >100,000Electrical engineering is a great one to get in. Do some research on smart grids and then tell them this isn't going to continue to be a great degree. This is a awesome degree more people should consider it. My best friend works for service provider who provides remote meter reading solutions and most of their programmers and database engineers are former EE's. They understand the concepts and quickly pick up programming and database theory.Mathematics and Actuarial Sciences you just can't go wrong. I know 3 guys from high school and college who either graduated with Actuary degree or Mathematics and they are all doing extremely well. All make closer to 200,000 than 100,000 and the actuary works for State Farm in Chicago and makes a true executive salary.

@ the original poster

Make sure you are capturing all that great technical experience you gained in school. Maybe try scoring an internship for 6-12 months and get some experience. Then those development jobs will be obtainable. The biggest lessons is not to give up. One day you will have 3-4 offers and then you'll be posting which one to take.

Hang in there.

erpadmin

NetworkVeteran wrote: »

The MIS (as opposed to CS or EE) is already one knock against an entry-level technical position. MIS has the stigma--fair or not--of being the degree that those who can't pass CS or EE get, and in any event it's not a heavyweight science degree.

I'd suggest getting some relevant certifications and focus on those rather than your degree.

What entry-level position are you talking about though? If it's for help desk or desktop support, than a CS or EE degree is severe overkill. In fact, if someone holding a CS or EE degree is doing help desk work, then that guy/girl did something wrong....someone with a CS or EE degree is going to be working at a place like Cisco....coding or building the networking equipment that a CCNP will to implement at his/her organization.

A MIS degree is more in line with management of IS. While it is certainly possible to break into the IT field with any degree (and in many cases NO degree, though those days are dying...) an MIS degree is not a dealbreaker, but one has to have a plan.

To the OP, it is very important that your first job is in line with a given career path. You need to figure that out first. Getting any job is easy enough, but it's actually mapping out a career plan that's going to be a challenge. Only you can determine where you want to be five or ten years down the line.

hackman2007

N2IT wrote: »

Universities have even gone beyond that now. If the MIS program is to challenging they have an ITSM version you can attend. The candidates coming out of the program I am thinking of (which will remain nameless unless you PM me), have very little skills to prepare them for even help desk. Some of these graduates have a hard time grasping high level concepts of the enterprise.

I'm not entirely sure which university you are talking about (though I am confident I know which one you are referring to).

I graduated with an ITSM degree and had a lot more exposure than many would think. I had to take Finance, Math, Accounting, CIS, Database, etc. Keep in mind, just because you graduated with a CS degree, that doesn't mean you are going to make a great salary. I know several people that majored in CS and some that are not doing anything related to the degree.

And then again I know several people that did not even get a STEM degree and are still working in a complex field. The goal should not be to end up in helpdesk. If that is all a person is after, there is a very good chance the person could have had that job with little or no education (no offense to helpdesk people).

N2IT

hackman2007 wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure which university you are talking about (though I am confident I know which one you are referring to).

I graduated with an ITSM degree and had a lot more exposure than many would think. I had to take Finance, Math, Accounting, CIS, Database, etc. Keep in mind, just because you graduated with a CS degree, that doesn't mean you are going to make a great salary. I know several people that majored in CS and some that are not doing anything related to the degree.

And then again I know several people that did not even get a STEM degree and are still working in a complex field. The goal should not be to end up in helpdesk. If that is all a person is after, there is a very good chance the person could have had that job with little or no education (no offense to helpdesk people).

The blanket statement was a poor choice, I apologize.

The guys I know with the CS degrees are smart and went to good schools so that didn't hurt their efforts.

erpadmin

hackman2007 wrote: »

I graduated with an ITSM degree and had a lot more exposure than many would think. I had to take Finance, Math, Accounting, CIS, Database, etc. Keep in mind, just because you graduated with a CS degree, that doesn't mean you are going to make a great salary. I know several people that majored in CS and some that are not doing anything related to the degree.

I'd have been happy just watching this exchange, as both of you are from the Show Me State...but having just finished a career management lecture from my Org. Behavior course, I feel like I can interject here.

Regardless of what degree someone graduates with, it is all going to be about career management. The reality is (and this is coupled with my own experience) that first job one takes (whether it's in IT or basketweaving) will determine how the rest of your career unfolds. Even if you chose the wrong first job in your twenties (I personally chose the wrong second job...) one still has time to make the proper choices while they're in their 20s and 30s....after yours 30s though, it becomes a bit difficult [doable, but difficult.] As I said in an earlier post, and I stand by that, if someone with a CS or EE degree is fighting for a helpdesk job, that person did something wrong. That could mean not moving to a place where he could grow the skills that a CS or EE degree prepared that person for. Or improper career planning.

hackman2007 wrote: »

And then again I know several people that did not even get a STEM degree and are still working in a complex field. The goal should not be to end up in helpdesk. If that is all a person is after, there is a very good chance the person could have had that job with little or no education (no offense to helpdesk people).

Ahhh, STEM....a nice little buzzword that gives me warm fuzzies inside, like "Cloud..." It shouldn't be an offense to anyone that one doesnt need an advanced degree to work in helpdesk (Level 1 or Level 2). I didn't need one. I was able to work my way out of help desk. Now I gotta work my way into management, and while I'm not gunning for a "STEM" degree, I'm earning my MS in Management from a place that's all about STEM. (It's even evident in the coursework I currently have now.)