Lab is taking shape.... and why I think this is a better choice vs. a simulator/gns3

digilink

Just thought I'd share my initial experience with my home lab build in progress and why I think it's better vs. just using something like Packet Tracer or GNS3.

Here's the topology so far:
2511 router that is mainly going to be a console router, but will most likely do frame relay functions as well
2621 router with 2 WIC-1T's
2950 switch

And I've got a 2650XM that's on the way to me, but I won't have it till Friday according to UPS.

I got some DTE/DCE cables in the mail this evening that I ordered last week, and to start playing around I connected the 2511 se0 DTE to 2621 se0/1 DCE and 2511 se1 DTE to 2621 se0/0 DCE.

So I start configuring 2511 se0. I go to config mode, assign an ip address and mask, no shut, and then the interface stays down. Hmm? I wonder what that could be... weird. Ok, well let me go to the 2621 and configure that end.

So I console to the 2621, config mode, assign an ip address and netmask to se0/1, no shut and still the interface doesn't come up. Ok at this point I'm really confused. So I go googling (keep in mind, I have never done this before ever and have only minimal experience) and ran across a few things that suggest I need to set a clock rate on the DCE side. So I set clock rate 56000. Still no joy.... hmmm.

I stare at this thing for the better part of 30 minutes, then it hit me! I had the cables swapped! No wonder why it wouldn't come up!!!! I swapped them over and sure enough we have packets flowing Houston! Was able to ping in both directions I don't think I could have simulated this "mistake" in a simulator.

So the moral of the story for me was that this minor investment in the lab was worth it (I got most of the equipment I have for free, namely the 2511 and 2621, I bought the rest)

I hope to get everything racked and cabled by the end of the week. I've got a full 7 ft. relay rack (another freebie) with a shelf. I'm waiting on brackets and an AUI transceiver for the 2511, as well as the 2650XM. I'll post some pics up when it's done.

Keanoknick

Sounds great. I agree the little mistakes you make like that and the things you learn by troubleshooting them, you can't learn in a simulator. I look forward to the pics.

JeanM

Yep, it's a VERY SMALL price to pay that will go a long way. Nothing beats hands on experience, and you can't learn everything in a simulator...after all in the real world you'll play with real hardware

beach5563

Sounds good. Yea its always good to have the real thing there. I am in the process of trying to set up GNS3 because my finances are really tight but they say you have to have an IOS and all for it and you need to get a router for that. Im getting to the point of just waiting on my finances and just get 3 1721 routers and 2 2950s from ebay. I have a friend who has that set up and got his CCNA with it. I have taken a few Cisco CCNA classes and a couple of CCNP classes years ago and it was so much fun having the equipment right there. I may still use GNS3 and incorporate it with the real equipment for certain scenarios. Anyway good luck and I guess you can just add to your lab piece by piece as you go along. : )

Roguetadhg

Things like this is why I enjoy going through the entire lab setup, instead of coping over the configuration and pasting it.

Never know when you'll find a missed ip address with a flurry of typing "255" into the keypad.

Real equipment will always beat out GNS3. Im envious of those with the real equipment - for many reasons. Experience, mostly.

Heero

Can't beat GNS3 for certain things though. For the MPLS and BGP test for the CCIP cert, GNS3 is a godsend.

Roguetadhg

Yeah, for the cost effective way to route, it's awesome. It's why I've chosen ROUTE over SWITCH - i don't have any physical switches and need to rely on emulation.

2URGSE

digilink wrote: »

Just thought I'd share my initial experience with my home lab build in progress and why I think it's better vs. just using something like Packet Tracer or GNS3.

Here's the topology so far:
2511 router that is mainly going to be a console router, but will most likely do frame relay functions as well
2621 router with 2 WIC-1T's
2950 switch

And I've got a 2650XM that's on the way to me, but I won't have it till Friday according to UPS.

I got some DTE/DCE cables in the mail this evening that I ordered last week, and to start playing around I connected the 2511 se0 DTE to 2621 se0/1 DCE and 2511 se1 DTE to 2621 se0/0 DCE.

So I start configuring 2511 se0. I go to config mode, assign an ip address and mask, no shut, and then the interface stays down. Hmm? I wonder what that could be... weird. Ok, well let me go to the 2621 and configure that end.

So I console to the 2621, config mode, assign an ip address and netmask to se0/1, no shut and still the interface doesn't come up. Ok at this point I'm really confused. So I go googling (keep in mind, I have never done this before ever and have only minimal experience) and ran across a few things that suggest I need to set a clock rate on the DCE side. So I set clock rate 56000. Still no joy.... hmmm.

I stare at this thing for the better part of 30 minutes, then it hit me! I had the cables swapped! No wonder why it wouldn't come up!!!! I swapped them over and sure enough we have packets flowing Houston! Was able to ping in both directions I don't think I could have simulated this "mistake" in a simulator.

So the moral of the story for me was that this minor investment in the lab was worth it (I got most of the equipment I have for free, namely the 2511 and 2621, I bought the rest)

I hope to get everything racked and cabled by the end of the week. I've got a full 7 ft. relay rack (another freebie) with a shelf. I'm waiting on brackets and an AUI transceiver for the 2511, as well as the 2650XM. I'll post some pics up when it's done.

I was studying in my hotel room last night, and after not passing the CCNA, it hit me like a brick in the forehead as well.

I'm following your foot steps!

veritas_libertas

I have a physical lab, and honestly I learn more by playing with it than GNS3 any day. There is something about using the real thing that makes it stick better.

2URGSE

veritas_libertas wrote: »

I have a physical lab, and honestly I learn more by playing with it than GNS3 any day. There is something about using the real thing that makes it stick better.

I wish I did that 1.5 years ago instead of the boot camp.

Oh well, my old man always says: "better late than ever".

veritas_libertas

2URGSE wrote: »

I wish I did that 1.5 years ago instead of the boot camp.

Oh well, my old man always says: "better late than ever".

Better to learn it late, than to never learn it.

jamesp1983

Keanoknick wrote: »

Sounds great. I agree the little mistakes you make like that and the things you learn by troubleshooting them, you can't learn in a simulator. I look forward to the pics.

True words. Plus you waste time troubleshooting GNS3/dynamips issues when you could be labbing.

Roguetadhg

Blinking lights make the theory work not so bad.

NetworkVeteran

jamesp1983 wrote: »

True words. Plus you waste time troubleshooting GNS3/dynamips issues when you could be labbing.

I disagree. With a home lab, you spend much more time on "other things" than you would with GNS3, IOU, or a good rack rental. Those are the most efficient for labbing and lead quicker to certification nirvana. I hammered out the CCNP in a month. That was not full-time studying. For CCNA & CCNP Route, I probably spent 2 hours setting up GNS3 properly (idlePC, image to use, frame-relay switch, etc.). I rented a rack for CCNP Switch. The TSHOOT lab took about an hour to setup/debug.

I've got friends who spent two weeks or more getting their labs up and running. And those weren't even TSHOOT-capable (5 routers, 4 switches, 2 servers, 2 clients). I didn't waste any time finding obsolete equipment on sale with a good-enough IOS, finding good prices, waiting for shipping, troubleshooting bent connectors, missing transceivers, wrong cables, bad devices, etc.

The one good argument I see for setting up a home lab for CCNA/CCNIP is that the experience you get from the "other things"--debugging bent connectors, wrong cables, etc.--is educational. I agree, if you're new to cabling or never seen a CON/AUX port, it can be a great experience giving you more confidence. I suspect those newer to networking also find it more exciting.

For the CCIE lab, a test with a large router topology where GNS issues are more likely to surface, that takes anywhere from three to twenty four months to study for, whether to simulate the routers is a closer call, depending on your PC's capabilities.

beach5563

NetworkVeteran wrote: »

I disagree. With a home lab, you spend much more time on "other things" than you would with GNS3, IOU, or a good rack rental. Those are the most efficient for labbing and lead quicker to certification nirvana. I hammered out the CCNP in a month. That was not full-time studying. For CCNA & CCNP Route, I probably spent 2 hours setting up GNS3 properly (idlePC, image to use, frame-relay switch, etc.). I rented a rack for CCNP Switch. The TSHOOT lab took about an hour to setup/debug.I've got friends who spent two weeks or more getting their labs up and running. And those weren't even TSHOOT-capable (5 routers, 4 switches, 2 servers, 2 clients). I didn't waste any time finding obsolete equipment on sale with a good-enough IOS, finding good prices, waiting for shipping, troubleshooting bent connectors, missing transceivers, wrong cables, bad devices, etc.The one good argument I see for setting up a home lab for CCNA/CCNIP is that the experience you get from the "other things"--debugging bent connectors, wrong cables, etc.--is educational. I agree, if you're new to cabling or never seen a CON/AUX port, it can be a great experience giving you more confidence. I suspect those newer to networking also find it more exciting.For the CCIE lab, a test with a large router topology where GNS issues are more likely to surface, that takes anywhere from three to twenty four months to study for, whether to simulate the routers is a closer call, depending on your PC's capabilities.

Thats a good point, I personally come from a telecom background and have been around IDF closets, switches for years. I have also taken a few cisco classes with huge labs so I have the physical stuff understood. I just want to get maybe one router to connect to GNS3 and go from there. I guess it depends on everyones background I guess.

Roguetadhg

If you're going for the IE level, it's pretty much expected that you'd have the equipment - fully.

digilink

beach5563 wrote: »

Thats a good point, I personally come from a telecom background and have been around IDF closets, switches for years. I have also taken a few cisco classes with huge labs so I have the physical stuff understood. I just want to get maybe one router to connect to GNS3 and go from there. I guess it depends on everyones background I guess.

Same here..... I currently work in telecom and seeing our industry rapidly move towards the IP world is what is motivating me (well plus I just LOVE Cisco.... always have but have only toyed with it in the past vs. actually learning it). I have plenty of equipment and cabling (not necessarily Cisco related) at work to play with, but for whatever reason the lab just feels more fun to me. GNS3 is good for what it is, but it can also be a PITA to use at times too.

beach5563

digilink wrote: »

Same here..... I currently work in telecom and seeing our industry rapidly move towards the IP world is what is motivating me (well plus I just LOVE Cisco.... always have but have only toyed with it in the past vs. actually learning it). I have plenty of equipment and cabling (not necessarily Cisco related) at work to play with, but for whatever reason the lab just feels more fun to me. GNS3 is good for what it is, but it can also be a PITA to use at times too.

yea being around telecom you get used to seeing a lot of hardware : ). I just fell at home around cisco stuff. Its the next logical step for a telecom guy because everything is about Networks and VOIP now. Financially I just cant afford a lab at this second and dont want to waste time so I may just work with GNS3 or Packet Tracer til I get back working then try to get a lab. Are you working on CCNA too?

NetworkVeteran

Roguetadhg wrote: »

If you're going for the IE level, it's pretty much expected that you'd have the equipment - fully.

By whom? The guy who blogged about completing his CCIE in three months had no home lab. He used GNS3. I've known a number of CCIEs, and none had a home lab that I'm aware of. ::shrug:: Whomever it is who has such expectations, you do not need to meet them, you simply need to learn the theory and be fast at configuring and troubleshooting it for IE.

The basic CCIE setups--

1. GNS routers
2. GNS routers, real switches
3. Real routers, real switches

Personally, I feel door #2 would be best in terms of labbing speed/efficiency. But I still wonder, "Can I get away with door #1?" I know CCIE candidates who have, and complemented their preparation with a rack rental or two focused on switching.

PS - Just applied for a CCIE-level position. "Do you have a home lab?" Wasn't one of the interview questions. They did ask about the difference between OSPF type-1 and type-2 external, MPLS-TEs, BGP attributes and loop prevention, etc.

beach5563

NetworkVeteran wrote: »

By whom? The guy who blogged about completing his CCIE in three months had no home lab. He used GNS3. I've known a number of CCIEs, and none had a home lab that I'm aware of. ::shrug:: Whomever it is who has such expectations, you do not need to meet them, you simply need to learn the theory and be fast at configuring and troubleshooting it for IE.

The basic CCIE setups--

1. GNS routers
2. GNS routers, real switches
3. Real routers, real switches

Personally, I feel door #2 would be best in terms of labbing speed/efficiency. But I still wonder, "Can I get away with door #1?" I know CCIE candidates who have, and complemented their preparation with a rack rental or two focused on switching.

PS - Just applied for a CCIE-level position. "Do you have a home lab?" Wasn't one of the interview questions. They did ask about the difference between OSPF type-1 and type-2 external, MPLS-TEs, BGP attributes and loop prevention, etc.

You bring up some good points. If I could get a good IOS in GNS3 I would be good to go for CCNA and CCNP because I could maybe rent some rack time for CCNP switch I guess.

digilink

beach5563 wrote: »

yea being around telecom you get used to seeing a lot of hardware : ). I just fell at home around cisco stuff. Its the next logical step for a telecom guy because everything is about Networks and VOIP now. Financially I just cant afford a lab at this second and dont want to waste time so I may just work with GNS3 or Packet Tracer til I get back working then try to get a lab. Are you working on CCNA too?

Agreed.... and yes, working on CCNA as well

Goal is to complete my CCNA sometime this year, I'm also working on another cert that I hope to test for in June, LPI Linux Certification.

beach5563

digilink wrote: »

Agreed.... and yes, working on CCNA as well

Goal is to complete my CCNA sometime this year, I'm also working on another cert that I hope to test for in June, LPI Linux Certification.

Sounds like a good plan. I may just use Packet Tracer for now because GNS3 is hard to set up and I cant afford a router right now to copy IOS from. I may use GNS3 for CCNP stuff though.