SANS gold...

reppgoa

Worth it? What is the point? Do employers even know about the program or care for that matter?

kriscamaro68

It is worth it in some respects. It could show potential employers that you can research a topic and write about it. It also helps when going to the GSE as there is requirements to obtain it.

JDMurray

I've struggled with this question myself. What's the ROI? Why pay an extra $349US to have a small paper that I researched and wrote published in the SANS Reading Room? I don't see this as a lucrative opportunity for either career advancement or promoting one's self as a researcher/writer. All of the reasons listed for having a GIAC Gold certification I can satisfy on my own blog and promote via Twitter, G+, etc. for free. I don't really see how I could convince my employer (based on potential ROI) to pay for such a thing either.

kriscamaro68 wrote: »

It also helps when going to the GSE as there is requirements to obtain it.

There is actually no requirement to have any GIAC Gold certifications as a prerequisite for GSE. Having GIAC Gold certs allows you to try for GSE by having fewer GIAC certs, but the Gold moniker on any of those certs isn't required.

kriscamaro68

JDMurray wrote: »

There is actually no requirement to have any GIAC Gold certifications as a prerequisite for GSE. Having GIAC Gold certs allows you to try for GSE by having fewer GIAC certs, but the Gold moniker on any of those certs isn't required.

I think you miss understood what I was saying. I wasn't saying that you need to have gold certs to obtain the GSE, what I meant is, it helps with the path to GSE because you can't just walk up and take it due to having prerequisites and the gold certs help with those pre-reqs.

JDMurray

Very sorry for the misunderstanding. The wording of what you were saying tripped me up.

It would be interesting to write Gold papers in preparation for one day taking the GSE, but I still can't see paying to do it. I'd sure like some GIAC Gold cert holders to chime in on this thread with their opinions.

kriscamaro68

JDMurray wrote: »

Very sorry for the misunderstanding. The wording of what you were saying tripped me up.

It would be interesting to write Gold papers in preparation for one day taking the GSE, but I still can't see paying to do it. I'd sure like some GIAC Gold cert holders to chime in on this thread with their opinions.

Thats one thing I forgot about. I don't see any ROI on paying to get gold certified. I shouldn't have to pay to write a paper in my opinion. Yes its cheaper than getting more GIAC certs to get to the GSE but at the same time I would rather take the other course and earn those certs as well. As long as its on someone elses dime anyway.

reppgoa

So its basically ego. Gotcha, I think I will pass on the gold.

docrice

I have kind of the opposite opinion. Some years ago, attaining a GIAC certification actually required doing the practical (writing the research paper). It helped demonstrate that the cert holder not only could pass a multiple-choice exam but also articulate on a related topic in-depth. I guess it's a way of also testing written communication skills.

When they decided to "dumb it down" and set up two levels (Silver and Gold) to make it more attainable for a lot of people (or whatever the motivation was for the change), I heard it caused an uproar among the already-certified folks.

Anyone can pass the multiple-choice exams and not necessarily have real-world credibility (I point you to yours truly as an example). I respect someone who can dig deeper into a subject area covered by a given certification and convey it in a meaningful way. I guess the availability of a Gold status also allows someone the option of contributing something back to the community which might be what GIAC / SANS is trying to hint at.

On the employability side, most companies who even recognize GIAC certs (not too many to begin with, relatively speaking) probably won't even be aware of the two levels. I wouldn't do a Gold paper as a resume-enhancing maneuver, that's for sure. I think in the end it does help to show that you might have more than just exam-test knowledge, which can be kind of shallow sometimes.

ChooseLife

kriscamaro68 wrote: »

Yes its cheaper than getting more GIAC certs to get to the GSE but at the same time I would rather take the other course and earn those certs as well.

Taking more courses instead of writing gold papers is surely nice, but this path (for GSE) costs $8k more, not counting travel expenses...

reppgoa

docrice wrote: »

I have kind of the opposite opinion. Some years ago, attaining a GIAC certification actually required doing the practical (writing the research paper). It helped demonstrate that the cert holder not only could pass a multiple-choice exam but also articulate on a related topic in-depth. I guess it's a way of also testing written communication skills.

When they decided to "dumb it down" and set up two levels (Silver and Gold) to make it more attainable for a lot of people (or whatever the motivation was for the change), I heard it caused an uproar among the already-certified folks.

Anyone can pass the multiple-choice exams and not necessarily have real-world credibility (I point you to yours truly as an example). I respect someone who can dig deeper into a subject area covered by a given certification and convey it in a meaningful way. I guess the availability of a Gold status also allows someone the option of contributing something back to the community which might be what GIAC / SANS is trying to hint at.

On the employability side, most companies who even recognize GIAC certs (not too many to begin with, relatively speaking) probably won't even be aware of the two levels. I wouldn't do a Gold paper as a resume-enhancing maneuver, that's for sure. I think in the end it does help to show that you might have more than just exam-test knowledge, which can be kind of shallow sometimes.

I can see your points docrice, but why should I as the test taker have to pay THEM $350 to write a paper? Doesnt make sense at all. Seems like a money grab.

JDMurray

docrice wrote: »

When they decided to "dumb it down" and set up two levels (Silver and Gold) to make it more attainable for a lot of people (or whatever the motivation was for the change), I heard it caused an uproar among the already-certified folks.

It probably had to do more with encouraging people to take the SANS courses/GIAC exams by removing the fear of needing to write a paper than it did with increasing the quality of the certification process or of the skills of the resulting certified individuals.

This reminds me of how the ARRL removed the Morse code test to encourage more people to get their FCC amateur radio license.

reppgoa wrote: »

I can see your points docrice, but why should I as the test taker have to pay THEM $350 to write a paper? Doesnt make sense at all. Seems like a money grab.

It's just the opposite, in fact. As ChooseLife points out, Gold certs are the cheaper path to the GSE--assuming that's your goal.

reppgoa

Its not my goal, not right now at least. I will admit I need to look farther into it. Should it be a goal of mine?

docrice

I think a GSE is a nice status symbol, but hardly anyone recognizes it on paper. It's a nice validation to the hardcore security crowd who know what it's about, and perhaps I'll attempt it one day because I'm already in striking distance (and plus it sucks to be seen as a paper tiger). Oh yeah, it also auto-renews all your existing GIAC certs at once, although the GSE itself needs to be renewed every four years via the latest written exam.

Otherwise it's probably a wiser investment to really focus on areas required by your day job and making a real difference. Given my current experience level, I think I've past my point of diminishing returns in regards to certifications. Unless I hold a CCIE (and with relevant experience), I'm probably not going to raise my income level significantly.

Briana.G

Apologies for ressurecting an older thread.

I asked a GIAC representative about the benefits of obtaining GIAC Gold. Apparently writing the paper will give you automatic certification for life. Otherwise, if you want to recertify you need to pay a fee and retake the test every four years.

veritas_libertas

I've never heard this. Can anyone validate that? I don't see it on the web site.

cyberguypr

I was under the impression that a Gold Paper just counted as the 36 CMUs required for renewal. Still, if going this route you need to pay the maintenance fees plus the Gold fee.

docrice

Although I'm not all that familiar with the Gold program, I find it difficult to believe that GIAC would award a lifetime certification for a Gold paper. I was under the impression that it would serve as a renewal for an existing certification, but having a lifetime, non-expiring certification based on a research paper and a passed exam seems counter to GIAC's mission.

LionelTeo

You could always write in to GIAC if your in doubt, otherwise, I don't think anyone can give you the most definite answer here. But I am with the others to say I am also under the impression that a GOLD certs requires to be renew by taking a related GIAC MCQ exam every 4 years before the expiring date.

JDMurray

Briana.G wrote: »

I asked a GIAC representative about the benefits of obtaining GIAC Gold. Apparently writing the paper will give you automatic certification for life.

Here are the GIAC Gold paper links:

GIAC Certification Renewal with Published Work
GIAC Gold Overview

I see the 36 CMUs and certification renewal mentioned, but nothing about lifetime certification. In fact, lifetime certification is in conflict with the requirements of the ISO/IEC 17024 certification standard, so I think this is misinformation.

cyberguypr

And knowing how SANS prices stuff I just don't see the lifetime thing happening.

beads

I've only been asked once if I had done a gold paper so I'd consider it to be pretty rare that it comes up in real life - if at all.

- B Eads