How to get an entry level job that isn't help desk?

Technikal

How stressful is the help desk role? I don't want to be on the phone all day, talking to angry people lol. how would i get an entry level IT job that doesn't involve this.

from my understanding desktop support (in house) is a step up but they usually require a couple years experience, yes?

what could i get with an associates degree + basic certs that doesn't involve talking on the phone most of the shift?

i eventually want to either get a job in infosec or network admin/engineer

please and thanks for the help

Forsaken_GA

You look. You interview. You convince someone that you're worth giving the opportunity to.

No, it's not easy. Nothing worth doing ever is. This is why you'll find a great many of us with helldesk stories to tell.

So either go work some people selling yourself, or put in your time like the rest of us. It really is that simple.

DevilWAH

Well you will need experience and if possible certification (experience more important). So the catch is how do you get the experience with out a job!

It's hard, you can do all the certifications you want, but when it comes to the higher up jobs you will be competing with people who have certs and 2/3 years help desk experience. Which will make it very hard for you.

there are some other jobs that arn't help desk. Some of my team do change management, and I take on people new to IT, as its a process driven role and a good stepping stone in to IT, how ever like help desk it is repetitive.

If you don't want to say on help desk then don't start in a major service delivery company hat is built around it a very formal help desk process. Look for a smaller company where you often find some of the help-desk engineer work on projects part time. Junior tec at a school, or collage, here you are more lickley to be expected to respond and fix the issues raised on he calls, than at a large company where it will just be taking down details and passing them on to other engineers.

If you go this route you need to get some certs, and be able to demonstrate some experience, even if it is your own personal projects. Get a web page and show what you are up to. The small companies can be hit and miss, as many don't really understand IT and don't have the best IT departments. But as It is not there central business (can argue it should be in all organisations but) they are looking to save money so will often take on less experinced people.

the trade of is that when you then move on again, experience with in a large well know IT company will look better than experience in a small unknown company.

How ever you go, you are going to have a few years at least of a junior role that you will have to work hard to push through. There is a very good reason for this, its a very effect way to filter people. Most companies give you little help moving of the help desk they leave it up to you to drive your self forward. They may give you training but they don't offer you new roles, they expect you to fight for them.

there are two types of IT people, the ones who stay on help desk for life moaning about it and about every one above them. Or the ones who bite the bullet, put there head down and work to get experience and cert and quickly become the ones moaned about.

My advice you can worry about it and look for other things that might or might not come along, and be still wondering how to get in to It in 3 years time. Or bite the bullet get a help desk role (its not people abusing you 24/7 that very much depends on how you act to how the users act towards you) and work hard for 6 months to a year to move on. A year might seem like a long time, but just think of the 30+ fun years after.

CodeBlox

I've got my associates and the few certs listed. I didn't have the CCNA at the time, only CCENT but the only thing I could land is Helpdesk work. Some luck and knowing the right people could help. Not everyone is angry, but doing this job does get old eventually.

WilliamK99

Best way to get ahead is volunteer. Find a church or other charity with network issues. Find a school having problems. offer your services free of charge. It's a great way to boost your resume when you are just starting out.

krjay

I was able to get a 'junior system admin' position at a company in the automotive industry. I really didn't want to work on the helpdesk either for my first job and I landed that gig with no certs and no experience. I was a senior in pursuit of a B.Sc MIS. They simply wanted someone with a willingness to learn, work a ton of hours, and travel. I like it as a first IT job beacuse it's a jack of all trades type of role. I gain basic level exposure to many different technologies I would probably have never gotten the chance to work with if I was forced into a help desk role.

On a side note this company wasn't looking for anyone at the time either. I sent HR my less than impressive resume and later called and asked to speak with someone in charge of IT. I basically told him I'm still trying to decide what I want to do as a career and I'm willing to learn anything IT related. He decided it wouldn't be a bad idea to have someone that has no experience but is tech-oriented do some of the work he didn't want to do. Now I'm finally buckling down and taking the networking route with plenty of time to study at work.

This scenario would probably never happen at a large company, nor will there be any room for me to move up here. But while I'm studying for CCNA and progressing through certs I have no problem with where I'm at. So maybe take a look at small-medium size businesses in your area and see if you can't use some creativity and land a position with them.

healthyboy

when you started out in junior system admin without any quals or experience did you get paid well or did you get law balled?

krjay

Started out extremely low however I could basically work as many hours as I wanted, so some weeks I was around 80. I got 4 raises within the first year though. I was always told they were due to the work ethic and ability to take on something way over my head and learn to make it work. Even if my pay started extremely low, the difference between extremely low and the highest I could expect from level 1 helpdesk couldn't be that much.

Qord

DevilWAH wrote: »

If you don't want to say on help desk then don't start in a major service delivery company hat is built around it a very formal help desk process. Look for a smaller company where you often find some of the help-desk engineer work on projects part time.

This is how I got my foot in the door, filling a helpdesk position at a community college. I'm helpdesk so I do get stuck doing phone work, but I also get the mobility and diversity of a desktop support role, and I get to play with a lot of the junior level sysadmin goodies... manage servers, research and implement projects. IMO, small shops are the best for getting your feet wet and learning about all the possible career paths within IT.

YFZblu

It's difficult, especially if you aren't a friend of a friend who knows a guy.

My advice if you end up going to a helpdesk: Benefits, and extra responsibilities - Ask about them. Try to find a helpdesk that asks its employees to help with other functions, such as NOC work, data center, etc. I remember when I was looking for jobs GoDaddy called, and it was essentially 1/2 helpdesk, and 1/2 data center...Could have been cool, but I was so burnt out by the helpdesk at the time I just couldn't do it.

Another suggestion would be try to get into a helpdesk that will sponsor you for military secret/top secret clearance, which could be very valuable moving forward when you advance to a better role. Finding a helpdesk with a company that pays for certs and continuing education would be a great benefit as well.

Helpdesks AREN'T created equal, and there are many here who had good experiences. I worked in two helpdesks for the same company; one was awful and the stereotypical bad job. The other was amazing - I worked with AD in a semi-admin role, spent very little time on the phone, and was promoted from the position.

Good luck!

the_Grinch

Helpdesk isn't as bad as you think. Do people yell? Sometimes. Are they angry? Sometimes. At the same time, I've dealt with some of the nicest people ever through phone support. I myself didn't think I could do helpdesk and two years later I was one of the best phone support techs. I'm off the desk and doing desk side support now, but my time on the desk helped a lot. Exposes you to every type of problem you can think of and always requires you to think on your feet (and quickly at that). That being said, if you got A+ you could do some other non-helpdesk work.

I was once offered a job paying 11.50 an hour installing network cards. Just had to put it in, start it up, and make sure it worked.

Tackle

Like some other guys have said, start at a smaller company if possible. You'll be able to wear more hats and maybe even get the "keys to the kingdom". 2 years ago I had just graduated with an AAS and didn't have any certs. Interviewed for a "Junior Administrator" role and landed it after 2 interviews and a less professional conversation with my would be boss. I was told I wasn't really qualified but they liked my attitude.

First day I was given access to everything. I've put in my time researching and learning out of work as well. I'm still there today. Sooo much happier than working a straight helpdesk job. I get exposure to every technology that makes this company work, not just how to reset a user password.

I'm not an extreme over achiever, but I do go above and beyond what I'm expected to. So, it's very possible for you to skip the help desk.

Edit: My starting pay was low. Super low. So low I'm afraid to say how low. But, since then I've had a few raises and am now getting more comfortable.

DevilWAH

the_Grinch wrote: »

I've dealt with some of the nicest people ever through phone support.

Indeed, Many of the people I keep in contact with from my past companies I first ever talked to when they phoned support. In fact I meet my wife when responding to a help desk incident.

Remember some help desk all you do is pick up phone, take down notes / follow a script, log the tickets and pass them to an engineer. I am not sure I would want to do this.

but many you spend part for your time on the phone and the rest actuly working though the tickets. So Monday you might be on the phone creating tickets, while Tuesday you are picking tickets out of a queue or reviewing the ones that came in while you where on the phone and resolving them.

Many different help desk structures, and as people have say, it can be a really enjoyable job. I am glad its behind me now, but I had fun on the help desk, and it gave me a really good overview of all the systems that make up IT and how they get deployed in a company.

Qord

DevilWAH wrote: »

I am glad its behind me now, but I had fun on the help desk, and it gave me a really good overview of all the systems that make up IT and how they get deployed in a company.

This is one of the reasons I love my helpdesk spot. I'm 32 and have no idea what I want to be when I grow up. Working in the environment I do, I'm very fortunate in that I'm getting a LOT of exposure to different parts of IT. I'm trying to slide into a sort of introductory JOAT knowledge-base/area, because I feel that once I'm there I'll have a really good idea of where I want to be further in my career.

ptilsen

Lots of truth in this thread. My advise is just suck it up and go for helpdesk along with DST, PC tech, etc. Maybe you'll get lucky, but if not at least you'll start getting the experience. You only have to do it for 18-24 months, then you start looking to move on.

To be honest, I don't even think it's that wise to skip it. Working in the right helpdesk environment can be an extremely valuable experience. The type of job you don't want is an extremely limited tier 1 job where all you do is categorize and escalate to tier 2 on top of being a password reset monkey. What you do want is a job where they actually let you troubleshoot user issues. That means over the phone troubleshooting with an end-user. Maybe that's scary, and it's definitely unpleasant, but there is nothing, truly, nothing that is more valuable to you in the start of your career. This is where you really build your troubleshooting skills up.

You're not just troubleshooting basic hardware issues, but potentially complex hardware, software, and networking issues all through the filter of the user's explanation of the symptoms. Even if the issues are largely what more experiences professionals would consider trivial, they will build up your troubleshooting skills and ability to communicate the tech to average people. If you can communicate with an unhappy end-user who doesn't understand anything about the computer or software or whatever it may be, communicating with management later in your career is trivial, by comparison. Management is less likely to yell, more likely to understand or at least try to understand, and probably more tech-savvy. For all the complaints you might hear about "management" in this field, typical managers are more tech-savvy than typical end-users.

So, my advise is to suck it up and take a job that will give you valuable experience and build your skills, even if it's hard. That doesn't mean it has to menial or has to be 90% dealing with angry people. There's a risk of that, but again, it's not forever and it builds valuable skills.

Forsaken_GA

the_Grinch wrote: »

Helpdesk isn't as bad as you think.

Don't believe him, yes it is I am never, ever, ever going back. I'll get the hell out of IT altogether before I ever sit on another helldesk.

DevilWAH

I feel

L1 roles are about building your trouble shooting skills, on or of a help desk.

L2 roles are developing in depth technical skills that you can apply you trouble shooting skills to.

L3's are the people who not only have in depth knowledge of technologies but have the trouble shooting skills and reasoning skills to apply there knowledge.

So if you want to end up as a good senior engineer one day, you need to put the time in now to learn these core skills, and the place you will get by far the largest optunities to gain experience with them is on the help desk or other supporting role.

DevilWAH

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

Don't believe him, yes it is I am never, ever, ever going back. I'll get the hell out of IT altogether before I ever sit on another helldesk.

Well yes for some it does leave scars that take a long time to heal but as they say what don't kill you only makes you stronger. And more determine to work you way out the other side.

NetworkVeteran

A few other network-focused ways to pay your dues--

+ a CS/EE degree
+ Graveyard shift, network monitoring
+ Part-time IT for a small <20 person company

tr1x

There's positions other than helpdesk that are still entry level. I'm not on helpdesk but I often say that I am because it's basically equivalent and saves me from explaining my role. But I remotely install customer's new equipment for them. So the skills that a helpdesk technician needs are the exact same as what I need, but I don't have to sit and take calls all day. I'm on the phone for maybe 2 hours a day maximum, and anytime I'm on the phone it's because I'm calling someone, not them calling me, and they're not usually angry to have someone help install their equipment, lol. Most of my communication can be done through email, I love being able to avoid the phone as much as possible.

That being said, IMO helpdesk jobs are terrible. But, if that's your only option for building experience and making a few bucks, then do it!

N2IT

Some jobs that come to mind that could help you get a start not helpdesk related

PC Repair|Vendor certs and A+ should get you right in with no experience
Server Repair|Vendor certs, A+ and/or Server + should open up the door
Deskside Support|Windows 7 cert, A+, vendor certs should get you in the door

There are some other hybrid roles you could try. Admin assistant that creates reports. You could learn Excel and Business Objects reporting for instance. Just an example but the hybrid technique can work.

rsutton

Technikal wrote: »

i eventually want to either get a job in infosec or network admin/engineer

Just a note on this, you will still have to deal with angry people, and in a network or security based role you will probably dealing with more important people who are a hellavu lot more angry than your average help desk user.

Forsaken_GA

DevilWAH wrote: »

Well yes for some it does leave scars that take a long time to heal but as they say what don't kill you only makes you stronger. And more determine to work you way out the other side.

Amen to that. It sure as hell motivated my ass.

I'm probably going to make some people mad by saying this, but I honestly believe if someone spends more than 2 years on a helpdesk, that person isn't really cut out for anything higher. Not because they lack the intelligence or capacity for higher level work, but because they don't have the motivation. With all the information and opportunities to improve your skillset floating around out there, there is no excuse to make a career out of help desk.

Forsaken_GA

rsutton wrote: »

Just a note on this, you will still have to deal with angry people, and in a network or security based role you will probably dealing with more important people who are a hellavu lot more angry than your average help desk user.

Heh, yeah. When I make a mistake, the amount of people it effects start in the six figures. When it reaches seven (which is scarily easy to do), I get to have unpleasant conversations with people who have 'Director' and 'Vice President' in their job titles. Sometimes I get to have them anyway when it's the on-site tech who farked up, and I have to give the post-mortem.

tr1x

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

I'm probably going to make some people mad by saying this, but I honestly believe if someone spends more than 2 years on a helpdesk, that person isn't really cut out for anything higher. Not because they lack the intelligence or capacity for higher level work, but because they don't have the motivation. With all the information and opportunities to improve your skillset floating around out there, there is no excuse to make a career out of help desk.

I completely agree. Some people are just content with helpdesk though I guess, people here have been working it for 10+ years.. to each their own.

CodeBlox

There are people who have been here 3 and 4 years on our helpdesk. Some seem content while others aren't happy but don't appear to be doing anything about the situation aside from the really common a+ and security+ certs here.

Akaricloud

Desktop Support is generally viewed as entry level as well and I'd suggest you try to get into that.

I worked desktop support for a few years while in college and prefered it over helpdesk. There's something to be said about having the chance to personally get to know all of your users and how it changes their level of respect for you. I was essentially viewed as a peer instead of just the person that they yelled at when something didn't work.

shodown

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

Amen to that. It sure as hell motivated my ass.

I'm probably going to make some people mad by saying this, but I honestly believe if someone spends more than 2 years on a helpdesk, that person isn't really cut out for anything higher. Not because they lack the intelligence or capacity for higher level work, but because they don't have the motivation. With all the information and opportunities to improve your skillset floating around out there, there is no excuse to make a career out of help desk.

Yep I tried to give you a rep point, but I guess your the last person I gave one too which was a while ago. I was going to say 2 years in that position. I did some time Tier 1 NOC, then Another year Tier 2 NOC, after that Went straight to Senior Network Engineer didn't' even do the jr, mid level time in those positions, but you have to ensure you are at a good NOC for that to happen.

SteveLord

Look in craigslist. Should be a greater chance of finding them. I too do not like phone support and was lucky enough to avoid that for the most part. The advantage is that helpdesk is almost always a stepping stone to the higher positions within that organization.

paul78

the_Grinch wrote: »

Helpdesk isn't as bad as you think. Do people yell? Sometimes. Are they angry? Sometimes. At the same time, I've dealt with some of the nicest people ever through phone support.

Yeah - sometimes I kinda miss just doing phone support. I worked on a helpdesk but I did work doing pre-sales tech-support which I enjoyed. Heck - I haven't done direct support in a while and people yell at me all the time.

Akaricloud

paul78 wrote: »

Yeah - sometimes I kinda miss just doing phone support. I worked on a helpdesk but I did work doing pre-sales tech-support which I enjoyed. Heck - I haven't done direct support in a while and people yell at me all the time.

At least in a helpdesk position when people get upset it's usually not your fault and you can just shrug it off. Now when you're the person actually responsible for systems going down.. different story!