Despite Job Openings, Skills Gap Slows Hiring Education and the Workforce

jesseou812

Despite Job Openings, Skills Gap Slows Hiring Education and the Workforce <---Clicky

From the article:

"Economists and academics say the rise in job openings at a time when unemployment
remains high could reflect employers having a hard time finding workers with the
right skills."

I could be off base here so go ahead and set me straight.

I think this particular quote is a big load of BS.

First, anytime you see a sentence start with "Economists and academics" that should automatically put you on alert. Typically, you can exchange the two for words like "elitist, pinhead and in some cases, public leech living off of suckers who take out student loans for bogus degrees."

Second, employers are not having a hard time finding workers with the right skills. They are having a hard time finding workers with the right skills WILLING to work for less than what they should be paid.

I found a job listed the other day where the employer required Exchange, A+, Security+ and CCNA certifications and the starting pay was $30K. Really? Yep, that will create a shortage.

Rant ends here.

Thanks.

MrBishop

jesseou812 wrote: »

I found a job listed the other day where the employer required Exchange, A+, Security+ and CCNA certifications and the starting pay was $30K. Really? Yep, that will create a shortage.
Thanks.

I've seen worse offers for jobs seeking people with CCIE level status and offering them well under the pay grade. That is just one problem, the other is when they try to combine job descriptions for networking and programming skills all wrapped in one. I'm sorry but I don't know many people that do networking that will also be a programmer. Its about getting the most of a candidate without willing to pay for the skill and years of hard work achieving those goals. Yeah, I think the government wants their money back before you die!

Qord

You seem really bitter. Someone poop in yer cherios?

I fail to see where the problem is with that 30k salary. Businesses pay what they pay, and there's usually a reason. That number looks comparable to what I see around my area for entry level gigs, and most of them go higher depending on experience. In most places, you get paid what they think you're worth, not what you think you're worth.

Iristheangel

If it's entry level help desk, then 30K might be alright but that only depends on the area you live in. Now if the employer is asking for all those certifications + 5 years of experience then it's complete BS and you'll see that job still posted on Craigslist or wherever 12 months from now.

MrBishop

30K? Really! I made that kind of money years ago working a non skilled job and that pay was around 40k. I would never sell myself short for pay that you can make at McDonalds. (Nothing wrong with it) Good luck paying back thousands of dollars in loan in your life time working for peanuts.

pcgizzmo

Agreed, 30k is too low for those certs. I would say 45 - 55 would be more like it.

NOC-Ninja

30k is too low. Our help desk gets paid more than that. Those guys dont even have any certifications.

the_Grinch

I love that they say a skill gap is the reason for the issue. It's not a skill gap, it's the fact that employers want everything and the kitchen sink. Couldn't tell you the number of job postings I have seen where they listed the following skills:

MCSE
CCNA
CISSP
5 Years of Active Directory
5 Years of Network Administrator
5 Years of Exchange

And the list continues. Not only are we talking about a job that should be at least two, but we're not talking about a large sum for doing all that. Some may argue that this is just a list of things you may be doing, but I've found that they are usually accurate.

jesseou812

Qord wrote: »

You seem really bitter. Someone poop in yer cherios?

I fail to see where the problem is with that 30k salary. Businesses pay what they pay, and there's usually a reason. That number looks comparable to what I see around my area for entry level gigs, and most of them go higher depending on experience. In most places, you get paid what they think you're worth, not what you think you're worth.

I am not at all bitter. It's a comment about an article. If you have Exchange, A+, Security+ and CCNA certs and willing to work for $30K, good on ya. Hard to believe anyone who's fingers are not burning from holding on to a crack pipe would do such a thing, but stranger things have happened.

Thanks for your expert business insight.

Iristheangel

You made me spit soda all over my computer screen. Good job

SteveLord

the_Grinch wrote: »

It's not a skill gap, it's the fact that employers want everything and the kitchen sink.

Ding!

Look at this Robert Half posting for my area. Not the greatest example, but still.

Requirements: 4 Year Degree strongly suggested, MS Office 2003-2010, SAP R3, Windows XP and Windows 7, Mobile Devices (iPhone, Android, Windows Mobile, Blackberry), data migration and program re-installation. Must have strong organizational skills in order to maintain schedule.

Pay $14-16.

4 year degree and obviously experience....for a contract job, paying that. You'd probably have to beg to get the $16/hr rate. In my opinion, for my area that is a few bucks too low.

To be fair, there are plenty that are about right. But they are more mid-senior level. Entry-mid are the most vulnerable to this kind of stuff.

Regardless of your area, I can't think how anything less than $30k is appropriate for even bare bones help desk.

BradleyHU

Qord wrote: »

You seem really bitter. Someone poop in yer cherios?

I fail to see where the problem is with that 30k salary. Businesses pay what they pay, and there's usually a reason. That number looks comparable to what I see around my area for entry level gigs, and most of them go higher depending on experience. In most places, you get paid what they think you're worth, not what you think you're worth.

you said the key word...comparable for YOUR area. COL is different in various areas. Also, when you're asking for a bunch of skills, and trying to combine different job functions, then only offer $30k, thats just insulting, no matter where you live.

networker050184

I agree there is a skills gap when it comes to some technical fields. Do you know hard hard it is to find someone that really knows how to engineer a network? I was doing interviews for just mid level support and all these people with CCNA and CCNP couldn't even spell IP if you gave them a dictionary! This was in a very high tech area with excellent pay, not peanuts.

I was working for a very large tech company and it was almost impossible for them to find qualified candidates with expert level knowledge. They surely didn't pay peanuts at this place either. They had to bring in candidates from all over the world as there just wasn't enough skilled people here. I mean actually skilled, not just holding a certification.

Zartanasaurus

jesseou812 wrote: »

First, anytime you see a sentence start with "Economists and academics" that should automatically put you on alert. Typically, you can exchange the two for words like "elitist, pinhead and in some cases, public leech living off of suckers who take out student loans for bogus degrees."

Tell us how you really feel?

sthomas

How about this for a low salary, I know the job duties are generic but they want someone with an Associate Degree and 3 years experience.

Computing Infrastructure Specialist

Technical Level III-starting salary range $21,070-$22,760

(REMOVED) College is accepting applications for a full time Computing Infrastructure Specialist. Salary is commensurate with experience and education; $21,070 to $22,760/Year. The ideal candidate will possess a strong hands-on working knowledge of telecommunications and data networking and server administration. The person will also be responsible for serving as backup to Computing and Infrastructure staff in the support, maintenance and upgrades of the audiovisual and distance learning technologies. The position requires strong customer service and technical skills with knowledge of Windows and Macintosh Operating Systems and MS office preferred. Associate Degree required or related specialized training and three years’ work experience required. Interested applicants should submit a (REMOVED) College application, cover letter, resume (with references) and transcripts to: Human Resources

eansdad

sthomas wrote: »

How about this for a low salary, I know the job duties are generic but they want someone with an Associate Degree and 3 years experience.

Computing Infrastructure Specialist

Technical Level III-starting salary range $21,070-$22,760

(REMOVED) College is accepting applications for a full time Computing Infrastructure Specialist. Salary is commensurate with experience and education; $21,070 to $22,760/Year. The ideal candidate will possess a strong hands-on working knowledge of telecommunications and data networking and server administration. The person will also be responsible for serving as backup to Computing and Infrastructure staff in the support, maintenance and upgrades of the audiovisual and distance learning technologies. The position requires strong customer service and technical skills with knowledge of Windows and Macintosh Operating Systems and MS office preferred. Associate Degree required or related specialized training and three years’ work experience required. Interested applicants should submit a (REMOVED) College application, cover letter, resume (with references) and transcripts to: Human Resources

Guess that would be a step up if you are working part time at geek squad. 3yrs exp and you should be making over $22k in any state.


With the economey the way it is companies think they can offer whatever and find what they want. This is a lot like back in 99-00 when the tech market crashed. I remember seeing entry level desktop support positions requiring 7-10 years exp and MCSA/CCNA offering $10/hr part time.

SteveLord

sthomas wrote: »

How about this for a low salary, I know the job duties are generic but they want someone with an Associate Degree and 3 years experience.

Computing Infrastructure Specialist

Technical Level III-starting salary range $21,070-$22,760

It's jobs like this where it's good to show up to the interview as a level 20 Paladin with a Greater Mask of Persuasion equipped giving you +5 to Charisma. Otherwise, there is no way anyone would be able to negotiate the whopping 82 gold pieces extra per hour at the top end of that scale.

Seriously. That pay range says "We'll pay you crap, or if you're really good... up to crap with a teaspoon of sugar on it."

Anonymouse

This discussion is along the lines of something I've thought about for a while: How long until you are required to have a college degree to be a cashier or janitor?

noobsrevenge

SteveLord wrote: »

It's jobs like this where it's good to show up to the interview as a level 20 Paladin with a Greater Mask of Persuasion equipped giving you +5 to Charisma. Otherwise, there is no way anyone would be able to negotiate the whopping 82 gold pieces extra per hour at the top end of that scale.

I genuinely lol'ed

Novalith478

SteveLord wrote: »

It's jobs like this where it's good to show up to the interview as a level 20 Paladin with a Greater Mask of Persuasion equipped giving you +5 to Charisma. Otherwise, there is no way anyone would be able to negotiate the whopping 82 gold pieces extra per hour at the top end of that scale.

Seriously. That pay range says "We'll pay you crap, or if you're really good... up to crap with a teaspoon of sugar on it."

Loving the WoW references

nhpr

Uh oh. Time to turn in your geek card! That was a Dungeons and Dragons reference.

Novalith478

nhpr wrote: »

Uh oh. Time to turn in your geek card! That was a Dungeons and Dragons reference.

Bah well spotted.

WoW is is basically all based off DnD so it's close enough :P

Mstavridis

after reading this:

(Entry Level)
-Support a local and wide-area network consisting of Cisco routers, switches, firewalls, wireless controllers and APs, and intrusion detection sensors. Including an emphasis on BGP/ EIGRP, MPLS, CoS/QoS, and VPN technologies.
-Experience with complex Microsoft Active Directory environments including DFS, DHCP, DNS, Exchange 2007 or 2010, File/Print, GPO, IIS, SQL, and WSUS
-General systems administration and support in a large scale, highly available 24/7 environment
-Daily maintenance and problem resolution, operating system patches and software upgrades, and routine hardware configuration
-Supports complex data/media recoverability through system backups, replication, and database archive operations.
-Proactive network monitoring unauthorized for access and security breaches using standard applications
-Research and evaluate new tools that enhance operation of the network
-Identifies, diagnoses, and resolves network problems
-Experience with SNMP and network management software
-Strong familiarity with TCP and UDP protocols, analyzing packet traces


Then getting back in my chair after I fell off of it and then reading you also need "Extensive" VoIP knowledge (almost fell again). I said hmmmm how much do they pay. So I asked and got a reply of 45k a year and thus fell out of my chair again.

Looking at that you should be at least making 80K a year and should be a upper level job. from what i am reading is that you will have to perform a job that is normally done by three separate people, a Microsoft Admin, a VoIP engineer, and a network engineer.

All I got to say is what the ****?

MrBishop

The job description is nowhere near an entry level position. If this was a company looking for someone to be mentored into the role then the salary fits the description. It could be the case where someone in HR is using the same template for all job openings and really doesn't understand what the candidate will eventually be working with. I see a lot of jobs postings like these but in reality you probably wouldn't be working with a majority of the technologies listed on a regular basis.

SteveLord

nhpr wrote: »

Uh oh. Time to turn in your geek card! That was a Dungeons and Dragons reference.

Someone repped me asking if that was Everquest. Oh boy....

kurosaki00

I dont know about CCIE..... I know personally 2 CCIE and both are extremely well paid.
And for what Ive seen online, the demand and pay for CCIE is very high.
Ive never seen a CCIE under paid (a good full of experience CCIE).

There is a shortage of low/basic/base/entry level jobs.
But there is actually an over demand of high specialized jobs.
Jobs that require experience and specific skills are all over the place.
The problem is that we (IN US at least) are not specializing.
People are staying in a Major and thats it (for w/e reason).
Today people still think that a major means 20 bucks an hour and a job guaranteed, and that they deserve such job with a major.
Let me get straight, a Major is a GENERAL entry level degree, everyone has one nowadays, just like 20 years ago everyone had a highschool degree.

The other issue is the "jack of all trades" in IT jobs now.
Now there isnt a support dept, sys admin, network admin, engineer person. No, all of those duties are now focused in one or two guys, for the same pay of one job. More andmore you see this in IT.

kurosaki00

Mstavridis wrote: »

after reading this:

(Entry Level)
-Support a local and wide-area network consisting of Cisco routers, switches, firewalls, wireless controllers and APs, and intrusion detection sensors. Including an emphasis on BGP/ EIGRP, MPLS, CoS/QoS, and VPN technologies.
-Experience with complex Microsoft Active Directory environments including DFS, DHCP, DNS, Exchange 2007 or 2010, File/Print, GPO, IIS, SQL, and WSUS
-General systems administration and support in a large scale, highly available 24/7 environment
-Daily maintenance and problem resolution, operating system patches and software upgrades, and routine hardware configuration
-Supports complex data/media recoverability through system backups, replication, and database archive operations.
-Proactive network monitoring unauthorized for access and security breaches using standard applications
-Research and evaluate new tools that enhance operation of the network
-Identifies, diagnoses, and resolves network problems
-Experience with SNMP and network management software
-Strong familiarity with TCP and UDP protocols, analyzing packet traces


Then getting back in my chair after I fell off of it and then reading you also need "Extensive" VoIP knowledge (almost fell again). I said hmmmm how much do they pay. So I asked and got a reply of 45k a year and thus fell out of my chair again.

Looking at that you should be at least making 80K a year and should be a upper level job. from what i am reading is that you will have to perform a job that is normally done by three separate people, a Microsoft Admin, a VoIP engineer, and a network engineer.

All I got to say is what the ****?

I think here in PR we are pretty underpaid due the high unemployment rate
But even for me thats a WTF 45k for all that?

cmitchell_00

I see many job's place ads like this one and see if people will bite. If enough people bite on the hook then they'll keep the pay @ that 30k rate. Now if this job is out there more than 60days and they will go up every 60-90 days on the pay. I've heard HR. people or recruiters tell me this all the time. These companies want people to do jobs of 3-4 folk and be grossly underpaid. Then, the irritating part is if you come in as an contractor then after the 90 day or 6mth period you'll get replaced. I hear it all the time where they like a person but, won't hire them just extend the contract without a raise or just cut them. You have to love these companies who post those ad's and who don't want to pay for benefits, PPO nor a 401k.

#The Madness#

tpatt100

If I was out of work and needed the money quickly, I would take it. I wouldn't stay of course but yeah I would do it lol.