What's your take on how long you should stay at a job?

YuckTheFankees

From the short time I have been in I.T., I have noticed that there are a lot more "job hoppers" compared to the finance sector (I use to work in banking/retirement plans). What is your personal take on how long you should stay at a job? I have heard different opinions on here; "you should stay at least one year", "leave once you stop learning", "if you've had over 4 jobs in a 10 year span, that's a red flag".

m3zilla

I stay until I'm no longer challenged/bored. I'm still relatively young at 24, and have had 4 different jobs in the last 2 years, but it was never an issue with any of my employer. In my defense though, I've never left a job because someone offer more money, there were always something else that drove me to look.

The way I look at it is this, I would rather jump around now to find a job I enjoy doing, than to be in miserable in my 30s, because I was worried about how it would look on my resume.

YuckTheFankees

I see you have your CCNP ( I hope to have it by December), how much has obtaining the CCNP helped your career?

YFZblu

Your current employer hired you to do a job - If you outgrow the position, many employers don't care or don't have interest in moving you within...because that creates a new hole and they'll have to rehire, retrain, etc. So in some cases it might just be easier to build value for yourself (with certs, a degree, etc.) and move on to another employer.

That's probably what I'll have to do. I started on the business side of the company, moved to helpdesk, and evolved to a desktop support position as the only tech covering three cities. At some point I'll get my CCNA and want to get an entry-level networking job...If my employer isn't interested in helping me, or doesn't have room in the NOC, then I'll have to leave.

m3zilla

YuckTheFankees wrote: »

I see you have your CCNP ( I hope to have it by December), how much has obtaining the CCNP helped your career?

It may have also helped get my resume looked at by my current company, but it was my ability to answer the technical questions, as well as my people skill that got me my job. My current manager reiterated many times that he did not hire me because of the CCNP, but because of how well he thought I would fit in with the rest of the team, and my willingness to learn.

htebazile

job hopping has been VERY kind to me!

as a contractor, it is very normal to job hop b/c contracts end. so employers don't really ask questions about why you have had so many different jobs. (fortunately, a contract never ended on me, but no one EVER asks, they just assume.)

as you probably already know, job hopping is the easiest way to get raises, and advance your career.

that said, i have left jobs only when they became tiresome and felt stagnant. each job i took, i really hoped i would want to stay at for a while, but i always felt like it was time to move on at a certain point.

i also always try to leave on the best terms possible, tying up all loose ends, providing turnover documentation, giving more than sufficient notice, etc. it doesn't pay to burn bridges, so if you are going to hop jobs, do it in the nicest way possible.

over the past 6 years, i have had 6 jobs (two with the same company but different divisions). it has served me well, in terms of career advancement and salary increases.

it's probably best to stay at a job for at least a year - if possible. 2 of those 6 jobs i had were less than a year, but i have stayed at the rest for over a year.

but my rule of thumb is that from each job: make the most of it and get some benefit to help along your career. whether it's your foot in the door, a higher security clearance, certifications / training / education, experience / knowledge, title, etc. i feel it's important to leave job better off than when you started, make sure something from your time there makes you more marketable.

even if you truly hate your job, find something that you can get out of it before you leave, so you can feel like your time there isn't wasted.

i really do hope to find a job i want to stay with long term, even if it's for a small pay cut. for one thing, my resume is getting too long! i am considering moving to a govie job soon, and staying long term for the retirement benefits (which will ease the sting of the lower salary).

so, in summary, my tips for a job-hopper (nothing ground breaking here):

- if at all possible, try to stay at least a year (keep in mind the length of your resume!)
- get something out of the job before you leave (certs, training, education, skills, clearance, title, etc.)
- leave on the best terms possible with sufficient notice (ideally they will want to hire you back later at a higher position)
- only change jobs if it will provide opportunities for learning new skills, advancing your career, and/or increasing your salary
- don't view any job as a stepping stone going in (exception: some overseas gigs), give it a real chance if you can

YuckTheFankees

Thank you for all the input!

techdudehere

In highly technical positions, I think job hoping makes sense. In each role, you utilize slightly different skills, different environments do things slightly different, and the technologies often vary a little bit (different vendor, different models, etc). While they'd like to think once hired they can keep you at your current salary forever and everyone says they don't hire you for your technical skills, those cliches don't reflect employers' actions. Certain jobs require a skillset that's hard to find because it's either broad or specialized. Having said that, you are losing a lot by job hopping. You are not building up vacation days and other benefits. If you can get in with a large company and build up a wealth of benefits, your quality of life can go up as you get older. If you can't get in with a large company, you can try to become top level at a smaller one. This will give you some ability to have input in how things are done and you probably won't have much risk of being let go.

Iristheangel

This is only my opinion but I feel that for the first 5-8 years of your IT career, you shouldn't let yourself stay in the same job title for more than 2 years. If you hit the 2 year point and you find that you've learned everything you're going to learn and your job title hasn't naturally changed through promotion or transfer, it's time to jump ship. There's a huge risk of being pigeon-holed or too specialized early in your career only to not be able to find a job later on. Also, depending on the corporate environment, sometimes you may be hired on X salary and HR has a strict policy that only allows a maximum annual pay raise of 4% regardless of how many certifications you've added or the degrees you've gained (given that inflation was 3.66% at one point, this really isn't much of a raise). Job role changes or changing companies can be the easiest way to make the helpdesk to Networking/administrator shift.

Anyways, my 2 cents

UnixGuy

If you got into systems/networks administrator/support job, I really think it's better NOT to change jobs. If you are learning, and moving up, then stay. I stayed and got promoted within, and was lucky to be outsourced to a different place (still the same employer). For system administration, you need to show 5+ yrs of experience, and I think sticking with a *good* employers gives you a chance for promotion, maybe change of duties if they trust you..


but there's always the boredom factor. I get bored sometimes and wonder if changing jobs would be wise. Then again, new things keep coming....

blargoe

What's your take on how long you should stay at a job?

Your first IT job should almost always be a stepping stone to the next opportunity in no less than 2 years. Sometimes, you might get an internal promotion, but usually, you're going to take your experience and find something better than entry level wages by then, even if you are still working in support.

Give any job 3-6 months, regardless, unless you are on a contract that is shorter term. One blip of a really short gig on your resume isn't a problem from what I have surmised, as long as you're up front about it not being a good fit and move on. But you have to try to give it time to work out.

If you're no longer learning, maybe it's time to become open to changing jobs.

If the employment relationship between you and the company is no longer mutually beneficial, time to look elsewhere.

If you are presented with an obvious step up in position, or a position that is more in line with your career goals, don't let artificial "minimum time in job position" deter you from advancing yourself.

If your work remains the same for several years with no prospects for change, become open to changing positions to avoid becoming too complacent/stagnant.

NinjaBoy

m3zilla wrote: »

I stay until I'm no longer challenged/bored...

and as long as I'm being developed by the organisation (continuing professional development) by certifications and/or a mulititude of different experience as well as being able to live of the salary.

the_Grinch

I've always seen two schools of thought on this, those who feel you need a stable history and should be at a job for at least a year, but really two. On the other hand I have heard that 6 months at any job is too long. My experience thus far has been mixed. I've had two potential employers question me as to why my work history was so spotty. That being said, I explained to them the conditions for which I was put under and were offered both positions. The old days of people questioning you not staying somewhere for years are just about over. The economy being what it is, employers seem to understand that you are going to leave to make more money. I've always gone with if I am bored and/or stressed out I start looking. Also, anytime things that were promised weren't delivered I walk. That was what made me leave my last two jobs. The first was the promise of vacation time that was never given until I told them I was leaving. The other was a promise of a healthy raise due to what I was hired for was not what I was doing and also the chance to move around. Companies very much enjoy leaving where you are and saying you are being compensated properly. What they fail to realize is that if you willing to hustle, they aren't the only game in town.

That is an advantage that we have in IT. In my area salaries are fairly consistent and while it will take time, you can find work else where. Like many here I don't have an issue learning new technologies so it is no concern of mine what I'm doing because I know I will be good at it. Also, being as hard headed as I am, if I feel wronged I will go. If it means a 3 hour commute and crappy hours, so be it.

But yeah I really wouldn't worry about work history too much as long as others have said you left on reasonable terms. Having been through several clearance processes, I have yet to have an issue with job history and I have had a lot of jobs. So if you're happy and you're growing, stay. If not, off you go. You have to worry about you because no one else will and any company that claims they do is just lying to you.

powerfool

Early in my career, I changed jobs more frequently. This was really a result of the state of the economy and my education/experience level at the time... essentially, I was new and uneducated and start-ups were everywhere. I didn't stay at a job longer than a year during my first four years. Then, I found my first "career" sort of position and I was there nearly three years. I left there after a management shuffle and also found more money. The new position threw a lot at me and I grew quickly. The boss and I started butting heads as well, so I started looking and went on to a new job just shy of two years. My next job was a great jump for me. I became the technical lead for a small group. I lasted through a couple of management shuffles and got good raises. Finally, another management shuffle occurred and they tossed us all out... that was just shy of three years. I then found my current position... and it has been extremely good to me. I got a 15% increase with the new job, and way better benefits; I then got an 11% increase after year one, and 4.5% increase after year two. They required the CISSP and supported me in getting it and updating my MS certs from 2000 to 2003 and then 2008. They have also been supporting my graduate schooling and have actually doubled my tuition reimbursement over policy for the past two years. I have been on the job for a little over two years. I intend to stay with this company as long as possible, but the current contract is slated to end in a little over two years. I am already trying to diversify myself within the company and get some work on additional contracts, which I hope the PMP and ITIL will assist in doing. The big thing for me is my current job gives me 10% into my 401k without me contributing a dime... I just have to get through the vesting cycle, which takes six years...

I think a few hops early in your career are not bad. Once you get a little further along, you need to try and get more time in with each position. You will face more issues when you work for companies that don't understand IT as being more dynamic. For instance, my last employer's CFO thought that two years was too quick... and he thought that folks that left at two years were just trying to hide long-term low performance from their employers. I tend to get bored if there aren't new challenges... and I think that is normal within IT. That is one reason that I think getting more managerial would be beneficial for me, as I could influence changes and work with getting them implemented to assist the business in meeting its mission.

apr911

To answer some of the comments you've heard... Im going to address this from the aspect of Full-Time Employment first and ignore contracting gigs for the time being

"if you've had over 4 jobs in a 10 year span, that's a red flag".

I dont necessarily agree with this position. 4 jobs in a 10 year span is pretty decent, 5-6 is probably ok too, 7 you might get some eyebrows raised as it means you havent been at any 1 job for more than 1.5 years and anything above 7 would be a definite red flag to me.

Now to be clear, I consider jobs to be different companies or non-consecutive time at a company. If you worked in one job role for a year then moved to a different role with in the same company, its a different position not a different job and thus you've only worked 1 job. If you worked for a company left for a period of time and then came back after any period of time, you've just worked 3 jobs.


"leave once you stop learning"

This is absolutely true. There is always something to be learned in IT so if you are no longer learning and no longer being challenged and a promotion with more responsibility or learning opportunity is not in your future its probably time to start looking to move on. That being said...

"you should stay at least one year"

If you tell me you learned everything there is to learn in a position in less than a year, either you were seriously overqualified for the position or you are lying to yourself.

I believe you should stay in a position for at least a year regardless. Preferably 12-18 months. In the normal course of business hiring, an employee does not become valuable to the company for usually somewhere around 3-6 months. By this I mean from day 1 to day 180 you are costing the company money and the company does not see a ROI until then.

The first day on the job, youve cost the company money in the form of the man-hours of acquiring, posting, interviewing (plus any travel expenses related to interviewing) and hiring for the req. In addition, if you were given any relocation assistance or signing bonus, this all comes out of the company coffers.

Over the 1st 1-2 months, you usually go through onboarding, shadowing and general training on how the company does business and how to do your job. During this time, the company is still paying you a salary even though you are not yet an effective employee. Usually sometime during the 2nd or 3rd month you start to become an effective employee at which point the company begins to recoup those costs but since they are still paying you a salary the initial costs usually take 1-2 months to recoup and then another 1-2 months to recoup the salary paid to you over the last 4-5 months.

Thus if you leave a company before 6 months, you've cost them money and while you might not care about that, your next employer will certainly take that in to consideration when trying to decide whether or not to hire you as they dont want to be the ones left holding the bag as it were especially if you've shown a past history of doing so.

Also people forget (or rather choose to ignore) to take into consideration the fact that the 1st 2-3 months are next to useless for them in a company and while they can rightfully list those 2-3 months as experience, in the 1st 12 months they actually only gained 9 months of experience.

For these 2 reasons I say you should stay with a company at least 12 months (as you gain experience and give them time to recoup their expenses) but more preferably 18 months as this adds to your overall experience level.

Now thats not to say you cant leave a job that isnt working out or that you are overqualified for sooner. I definitely wouldnt leave before 6 months in this case (see above regarding spin-up time and cost of employee acquistion) and you definitely dont want to make a habit of it.

If I see a resume with 2-3 6 month positions in a row or if every other job is a 6 month position, Im going to have some questions about whether its worth bringing this employee onboard given the costs and time involved and the fact that I may need to start recruiting again in 6 months.

Be prepared to answer why you left after only 6 months.


Now for some fresh comments...

1. Never leave for money. Or at least not transparently so. You can leave for any reason as long as its not "because you/they offered to pay me more" if you're a mercenary offering your services to the highest bidder so be it but dont let the hiring manager know this as it will be red flag. The hiring manager will not want to hire someone who might leave at the first whiff of a better offer. This is especially true if you are coming to a new position offering less money for some reason (better location, family, whatever the reason) as the hiring manager will question whether you'll stick around for if a better offer comes along or the situation that brought you in for less money changes. So when asked why you left any job, make sure its never about the money.

2. Always be positive about your experiences. You're bound to have jobs you've left for reasons other than good ones. Sometimes you'll have no choice but to admit they weren't a good fit but try to keep these to a minimum.


On to contracting

Contracting is a different bailiwick. Because contracts are usually finite and short term in nature, the normal rules dont really apply since its impossible to stay for 12-18 months on a 6 months or 12 month contract. Similarly its impossible to stay until you stop learning since it may again be longer than the contract's length before you stop learning.

In contracting, its not unusual to take numerous contracts in a 10 year span so just be upfront that the reason you have so many positions is because you've been doing contracting. If contracting is something you're considering doing over the long term, you may want to consider creating a legal entity such as an LLC to reduce the number of positions you've worked in. This will help to smooth the gaps between contracts as well since you may be out of work for a month or 2 between contracts but with your own LLC you can remain employed even if you're not working.


Anyway, just some thoughts on how long to stay (as a minimum) in any position. As a final note, just keep in mind in IT it is possible to stay TOO long at a position. You run the risk of boxing yourself into a very small niche environment if you arent trying to continually improve and advance yourself and if you spend too much time in a position, depending on the position, it may raise questions about your abilities to adapt to new technologies. Also, as technology is ever changing you may find your skills that work great for the company you are currently at are obsolete everywhere else.

the_Grinch

apr911 is spot on with always being positive about your experiences. I've been questioned twice on why I had left a job after 8 months (it was eight months of hell) and when I said something to that fact the first time they were not happy. I was lucky in the fact that my boss at that job was a reference and he also left. After speaking with him and they called me to say they more then understood why I had left. That being said, I now just stick to saying that there was no upward mobility and continued technical growth (which was part of my reasoning for leaving).

FloOz

ive heard it is smart to switch jobs every 3-4 years to change things up. being at a job for too long can make you life boring and dull. idk the truth of this considering i just started my first full time job

N2IT

Really good information in this post.

I would recommend somewhere along your IT career staying at a position for 3-5 years. That will show reliability and consistency. I also like the piece about contract work, it's a good out and gives the get out of free jail card to bounce from job to job.

I've done and plan on doing it again

SteveLord

Problem with jumping around is you lose seniority every time. As a father of 4, my sick and vacation days are a luxury.

N2IT

There are pros and cons to everything and you make an excellent point Steve. Best case scenario for me would be to lock into a position I like, with potential of growth, for a well run company or organization.

A lot if's there though.

rwmidl

I'm mixed on this. My first IT job, I was with that company for almost 10 years (4 months shy). Granted, all of that wasn't in IT. It was a good company, very generous benefits (I was getting 20-something days vacation a year when I left, on top of unlimited sick time, no paycheck deductions (at that time) for health insurance, 8% 401(k) match and bonuses every year that averaged in the 5 figures). But the job started to change, and I knew it was time for me to go on. The job after that I was there just over 2 years, and the company I'm with now I've been here just over 2 years.

If the company is good and there is some growth potential, I'd stay stick around for 5 years. At least then you can walk away with your full company 401(k) match (most companies you are fully vested at 4-5 years). That's free money! But each persons situation is different.

tprice5

SteveLord wrote: »

Problem with jumping around is you lose seniority every time. As a father of 4, my sick and vacation days are a luxury.

This is the truth, but would be willing to let go of 2 weeks of vacation for a 15% bump.

As someone who has worked in a crumby work environment and driving an hour and a half each way to do it, I know how important it is to be happy at your place of business. If you are unhappy at work, it will eventually spill over at home and elsewhere. It sucks not liking your job. Man, oh man, does it suck. Waking up every day knowing that for the foreseeable future you will be unhappy is a very depressing relization. That being said, I got into the computer game for the paycheck. Call me a mercenary, or a sell out, but the money is always the bottom line for me; followed by a close second, benefits.

rwmidl

What Tprice said is correct. The job I worked at for close to 10 years got to the point of me dreading going to work each day (yay crappy managers!) Plus, if you are worried about loosing vacation time, negotiate it during your interview at the new position.

SteveLord

My flexibility and benefits here are hard to beat. And I love my job. 15% would not be enough at all.

I hear you though.