How much could a degree help?

HackedAlias

I'm currently reviewing my options for my potential and am wondering if/how much a college degree would help in my situation. I'm currently 22, freshly CCNP with about 3-4 years exp. and work for a Cisco Gold Partner(Also top Microsoft and EMC partner) in a NOC environment. I know I'm secure in this job but along with wanting to move from my home state(for personal reasons), my curiosity has gotten the better of me and I've been looking around online at different areas of applications of Networking, from video game companies to aerospace companies and a common trend I'm seeing is a minimum of a BS in IT or related but they'll have certification requirements at CCNA or Network+. Is this means to scare away non-serious candidates or will resumes without the BS be automatically pitched? And at the end of the day how much value would a degree add to me?
Thanks

Iristheangel

As far as payscale, probably not much but for actual job and advancement opportunities, quite a bit.
You'll get past more of the HR gatekeepers for jobs and many companies require a degree to advance to a management position. That's the real value of a degree in the IT work when you already have experience and certifications

DigitalZeroOne

It's difficult to answer how much a degree will help with earning more money, I know there are statistics out there saying how college grads on average earn $$ more than someone without a degree, but there are so many variables in that. The best way to look at your situation is 2 people with similar backgrounds and certs, one has a degree, one does not, HR put requirements for a degree. Most likely the company will go with the person who has the degree.

Again, it's not always cut and dry, my general advice is to always stack the deck in your favor, if a degree won't be a huge financial burden, then go for it, but you can still go very far, and earn a nice salary in IT without a degree.

networker050184

The more qualifications you have the better obviously, but I don't know if you will really see any kind of immediate returns by earning a degree. Again, that isn't to say don't get one. Every job I've ever applied for had the same "minimum B.S." required line on the job posting. If there were any truth to that I'd never have gotten a job. Sure there are some places that absolutely require them, but I know I'd never want to work for a place that judges applicants solely on a piece of paper.

People also like to mention the "HR filters" but the more I've become involved in hiring processes at a few companies HR doesn't make any sort of applicant decision at all. Once the hiring manager selects a candidate they are sent to HR for background check and all that. They make no decision on who is hired or not. I'm sure in some organizations this may not be the case, but its not true for anywhere I've ever worked.

Somnipotent

I've been in situations where I fit the requirements to the T until they asked if I 4 year degree, at which point I'm immediately disqualified due to requirements of the particular contract or client. While it may not pass through HR hands, certain recruiters and clients ask for arbitrary degrees regardless of the certification of years of experience. At least that's from my experience. I usually get through to interviews via the back door.

SteveLord

For state government employment here, whatever is a noted requirement must be in your application or you will rejected by HR. Certain things like experience can be appealed, but you either have a degree or you don't.

baseball1988

Work experience is important these days. But, getting a degree may help you down the road for advancement opportunities.

matt333

agree. go for it if you have the means and time

healthyboy

wow 3 to 4 years of exp and ccnp and only 22 your doing well,

how much you make now?

WONTONnPHO

healthyboy wrote: »

wow 3 to 4 years of exp and ccnp and only 22 your doing well,

how much you make now?

Yeah, OP is definitely ahead of the game! I wish I was smart enough to get into it sooner

healthyboy

i tried to get into i.t (working) at 17 but couldnt i got a role at 18 and big break at 19 now 20 looking for the next best thing

the_Grinch

I've known a lot of people who applied for jobs with experience and no degree (though a degree was required) that were hired. I think a lot of companies post a minimum of a BA/BS in the event a college grad with no experience applies. In the long run, you'll want to get the degree, but your experience/certifications should get you interviews without issue. As the old saying goes, you're already not on the team so you lose nothing by trying. Good luck.

FloOz

healthyboy wrote: »

wow 3 to 4 years of exp and ccnp and only 22 your doing well,

how much you make now?

yah that is impressive. i am 22 currently as well

as for a degree, in my opinion you need one to get ahead. my job currenlty is paying me very well compared to the other people here that have no degree.

HackedAlias

healthyboy wrote: »

wow 3 to 4 years of exp and ccnp and only 22 your doing well,

how much you make now?

Thanks everyone! And I'm definitely considering my options for online degrees now since there aren't any renowned colleges in my state, and since government and the higher echelon positions are what are really catching my eye and from what I'm hearing those will definitely need a degree, unless I can weasel my way up to the top through my current position since we service many gov't entities and the likes. And to answer your question I make ~50k currently with raise period coming in the next 6 months that will take into account the new CCNP. (And I did get VERY lucky with this job they took a big risk on someone with Desktop support over network experience and it paid off with enough motivation and that competitive gene in me Lol.)

I guess the next thing to figure out would be, what degree to go for if I were to gear for government or private government contractor type job?

Akaricloud

I'm also 22, went the MIS degree route and personally it hasn't done much for me. My current Systems Administration position didn't really rely on my degree at all. If I were doing it all over again I'd just cert up instead of wasting the time/money on a degree.

With that said, if you are looking towards government positions that require a degree then an online one might make sense for you. I'm curious as to why you would want government work though.

dave330i

HackedAlias wrote: »

I guess the next thing to figure out would be, what degree to go for if I were to gear for government or private government contractor type job?

As long as its computer/technology related and the degree is a BS it doesn't make too much difference.

paul78

@HackedAlias - in case you haven't seen this thread on TE - it's a resource for online schools. http://www.techexams.net/forums/jobs-degrees/53985-master-list-b-m-colleges-offering-online-degrees.html

As for your comment about "And at the end of the day how much value would a degree add to me?" - I think that's will largely depend on how you apply your degree. Perhaps one way to also consider the question - is there any downside? If you have the means and williness to put in the effort - I cannot imagine that there would be a negative to getting a degree.

Granted - it is very possible to succeed without a college degree and there are examples of folks that do not have a degree. But that tends to be an exception - a college degree will likely only increase the likelihood of success.

Good luck.

Akaricloud

paul78 wrote: »

Is there any downside? If you have the means and williness to put in the effort - I cannot imagine that there would be a negative to getting a degree.

There is most definitely a downside to obtaining a degree. Not only is tuition expensive(especially if you factor in the future value of the tuition you're paying now) but you also have to consider the opportunity cost of giving away 4-years of your life. Instead of spending your time taking english, math and communications classes, you could be learning something much more relevant to your career or even pick up a second job to gain additional experience.

With that said some people really need those basic classes but for other like myself it just becomes an expensive game of jumping through hoops with very little reward. If you adequately communicate this during an interview as the reason for not having a degree and show the alternative route you've taken, then a lack of degree isn't really an issue.

dave330i

Odds are you'll hit a ceiling much sooner than someone with a BS.

Wilson502

IMO theres a greater opportunity cost to not pursue one, in that the amount of opportunities that you may be excluded from due to the lack of a B.S. degree, especially this day in age.

FloOz

dave330i wrote: »

Odds are you'll hit a ceiling much sooner than someone with a BS.

Exactly! even the director and my firm said people without degrees are bound to hit a ceiling fast

Akaricloud

I can't say that I really agree with that. It's not really the lack of degree that gets most people, it's the lack of knowledge. If you don't get a degree AND do nothing then of course people are going to pass you by. The fact is that a lot of people can become much more educated, much quicker through non-degree self-study. It's a completely different tactic that will yield different experiences but the same overall result, a good career.

It's like a muscle car vs a well-tuned, performance 4-cylinder car around a track. Sure, on paper the muscle car has more power and looks like it should be faster but in reality the "underdog" is equally as fast because of it's different approach. They're both provide different experiences and require different tactics but the end result is near the same.

Without a degree you're always going to have to prove yourself and very tactically work to advance your career, but if done right you're not really missing out on anything overall. If you try to take the same approach that people with a degree take then sure, you'll hit a ceiling much quicker.

networker050184

pruspeter wrote: »

Exactly! even the director and my firm said people without degrees are bound to hit a ceiling fast

Oh, your director said so. That makes it true!

paul78

@akaricloud - I do concede your points. And in large part because your comment echo my own personal experience. My own comment was based on @HackedAlias's question about if there was value in getting a degree. At face-value, there is certainly benefit in getting a degree. On the flip-side, you are absolutely correct - it's about knowledge and employing the right tactics to manage one's career. (great analogy btw - I will have to meditate if that has anything to do with my drive an 8 cylinder truck)

I am actually a college drop-out. I have no degree. But I have never hit any sort of glass-ceiling as others have implied nor have I felt that my earning potential was limited. I am actually quite well compensated and I have never felt that I was being paid differently than others with a degree.

Regardless - I do still recommend that if someone has the means and willingness - there is probably is little downside. A 4 year stint and tuition is not really a big investment over the course of a 30 - 40 year career.

dave330i

Akaricloud wrote: »

I can't say that I really agree with that. It's not really the lack of degree that gets most people, it's the lack of knowledge. If you don't get a degree AND do nothing then of course people are going to pass you by. The fact is that a lot of people can become much more educated, much quicker through non-degree self-study. It's a completely different tactic that will yield different experiences but the same overall result, a good career.

It's like a muscle car vs a well-tuned, performance 4-cylinder car around a track. Sure, on paper the muscle car has more power and looks like it should be faster but in reality the "underdog" is equally as fast because of it's different approach. They're both provide different experiences and require different tactics but the end result is near the same.

Without a degree you're always going to have to prove yourself and very tactically work to advance your career, but if done right you're not really missing out on anything overall. If you try to take the same approach that people with a degree take then sure, you'll hit a ceiling much quicker.

No. It's like trying to enter a motorcycle into an auto race. No matter how good a motorcycle is, it's not a car.

If a position requires a degree you don't qualify. It doesn't matter if you can do the job or not.

paul78

networker050184 wrote: »

Oh, your director said so. That makes it true!

Well... I just read it on the Internet so it must be true. [ok - I know that was rude but I couldn't help myself]

dave330i wrote:

If a position requires a degree you don't qualify.

I think you would be surprised how "soft" job requirements could be. It just requires different strategies to get those jobs and through the front-door.

Akaricloud

Like I said, different experiences and approaches. Sure there will be positions you don't qualify for(We can say the same for people with BS degrees and positions requiring Masters degrees), but there will also be new, different opportunities available.

HackedAlias

Akaricloud wrote: »

I'm also 22, went the MIS degree route and personally it hasn't done much for me. My current Systems Administration position didn't really rely on my degree at all. If I were doing it all over again I'd just cert up instead of wasting the time/money on a degree.

With that said, if you are looking towards government positions that require a degree then an online one might make sense for you. I'm curious as to why you would want government work though.

Gov't isn't the only thing I've got my eye on but it's about positioning myself in a general area of work and power. About 80-95% of my work now revolves around monitoring and supporting Schools, Cities, Gov't buildings across the West. The only push to change would be to get intimate time with one entity rather than many and have a hand in configuring and redesigning infrastructures to meet the cutting technologies that government bodies seem to always (at least here) love going to.

That aside with no degree I imagine getting to a point of power in that field would be a long uphill battle, that I am trying to convince myself one way or another if it's worth pursuing.

Government aside, my top 2 choices would be a company that deals with video games ( think online networking like Halo, CoD etc) or an entity that deals with my biggest fascination; Space. Getting in with an aerospace company would be my other choice, though I doubt a network engineer would see much of the spacey stuff day to day but you never know.

In your opinions' what would be a bigger achievement to list on my resume? A CCIE or BS in IT?

networker050184

HackedAlias wrote: »

In your opinions' what would be a bigger achievement to list on my resume? A CCIE or BS in IT?

Depends on the job you are going for. Network engineer definitely the CCIE by a long shot.

paul78

HackedAlias wrote: »

A CCIE or BS in IT?

Not really much of a comparison imho - easily the CCIE will get more notice on a resume.