Brick and Mortar vs WGU

ODNation

Would like to pose a question to those lurking the forums. A little background... I've been working at a Fortune 500 company for about 7 years now and I got promoted to Senior Systems Admin last week along with a raise. The only thing working for me at this point is my experience and certifications that I have. I am currently 30 years old and I do worry about where I'll be in 20 years without a degree. I decided to enlist at the Univ of Toledo (fully accredited) and enroll into their Information Technology program that is part of the College of Engineering. To be honest, this program is a f***ing joke. There is nothing practical or real world about what they're teaching for IT. So anyways, I started yesterday by taking two elective classes (Critical Thinking and Tech Writing), and I'm seriously debating on dropping these classes and applying to WGU.

In your opinion, do you think that a degree from WGU is equal to or even more valuable than a degree from a fully accredited college? I guess I'm looking long term. Will WGU be well-known to hiring managers and HR personnel? I want to say yes based on where our society is headed with education - but I can't help but doubt a school that nobody has really ever heard of.

veritas_libertas

B&M will always be more respected. That's not to say that I don't have respect for WGU students, anyone on TE knows that I do. Also, if you can get a degree from a school in your region or state than it will benefit you for instance, you never know when the hiring manager may be an Alumnist, or if you might get a job because of your connection with the school. Also, HR will have heard of the Univ of Toledo while WGU will be less known.

Iristheangel

I agree with Veritas. HR might never have heard of WGU but if curriculum is the most important to you, I think that what WGU teaches you is especially relevant given that they combine certification exams with the curriculum. I've graduated from WGU and I have a high opinion of it since it fit what I was doing in my career and helped me pick up some new knowledge. I would recommend to take a look at the different programs as well as the certifications tracks that are on each program to determine if it fits into your career goals. You can download a PDF guide of each degree program on the degree page

kgb

I personally wouldn't worry about the whole "has the person heard of my college". That is a non-factor. Unless it's a top-school that everyone knows, there's a good chance the person might not know your school, regardless if it's online or a B&M. Is the school accredited and does it have a good reputation, that's what matters.

I just started at WGU myself, I have nothing but good stuff to say about it. However, I came to WGU through a very calculated process. Myself, I'm 37 and switching careers (going from 3d modeling to programming). It would make no sense for me to spend the next 4-7yrs it would take to go to a regular B&M school to get a programming degree. I'm making the career switch now. The main reasons I'm even going back to school is because 1) I want to have a 4yr degree. 2) It opens more doors professionally.

If time was not a factor, if I didn't have a young baby that I wanted to experience growing up, then I would go to a local university. There's no doubt it would have more weight. But, time is a factor and I will not choose school over my daughter. So, with those stipulations I made my decision to what seems to be best for my current situation. I have no regrets thus far.

okplaya

You'll have roughly 10(+) years work experience upon completion of a bachelor's program. At that point does it really matter where your degree is from (as long as regionally accredited)? Do degrees even hold much weight after 5 years experience beyond just meeting HR policy?

I'm playing devil's advocate here.

For what it's worth, I have a degree and they never ask me about my classes lol. They only care about past/current job responsibilities.

Online college is more convenient than B&M when you have a full-time job. My humble opinion.

demonfurbie

its all dependent on you current life style

i work full time, 2 kids under 7, 3 hour commute ... i dont think i could do a b&m school with a time table that would make the wife happy, hence the reason im going to wgu

jdancer

okplaya wrote: »

You'll have roughly 10(+) years work experience upon completion of a bachelor's program. At that point does it really matter where your degree is from (as long as regionally accredited)? Do degrees even hold much weight after 5 years experience beyond just meeting HR policy?

I'm playing devil's advocate here.

For what it's worth, I have a degree and they never ask me about my classes lol. They only care about past/current job responsibilities.

Online college is more convenient than B&M when you have a full-time job. My humble opinion.

What he said.

You have positions which "require" an accredited undergraduate degree.

Save yourself the stress of going to a ground school and do it on-line.

I am actually looking to get an on-line MBA next year. Of course, it will be AACSB accredited.

Valsacar

I have to disagree, B&M is not always going to be more respected, things do change and the will. I've gotten questions, a lot, about WGU since I started and some very amazed looks at the pace. I'm a contractor, just last night I was discussing it with our Lieutenant Colonel whom is in charge of our organization (we run two different enterprise networks with over 10k users each). After I explained how the projects work, and examples of them, he was impressed not only at the type of work but that it really has been identical to what someone in that position would be doing. If an old Army Officer can respect it, the industry can too, we all know the Army isn't known for quick moving on ideas.

I have a lunch time meeting coming up with a professor at a B&M, he wants to learn more about the MSISA program at WGU because from what he's read it seems to be a good program and he wants to be able to honestly recommend it to his undergrad students.

I know my company (General Dynamics) respects it well enough, they're paying for it.

tpatt100

I just saw on the news that most of the "for profit" colleges failed the White House evaluation method they announced last year I think it was. Something dealing with graduation rates, amount of debt/income ratio, etc. The for profits that have predatory practices I think are the ones that will stink up the rep for a lot of online colleges.

petedude

Like it or not, in some parts of the country some folks still frown on degrees earned from wholly online schools like WGU. If you want absolute acceptance of your diploma in those spots, you'll want to look at a online program from a known B&M. A WGU bachelor's would still be useful though-- for getting yourself into a decent master's program.

Valsacar

So your solution to the problem of their incorrect beliefs as to the value on online learning is to perpetuate it by catering to them?

Devilry

I know there is the exception to all rules, so there is the disclaimer.

I believe that in this day in age, at least with any mid-to-large size company, a BS or MS degree is simply a check-mark from the gatekeeper (HR) to forward your name to the hiring manager. Why does anyone care about the 1/100000 chance that the hiring manager has stayed local his entire life in a higher ranking position, and might know your B&M school? I know at least at my company not one single manager is from my local REGION.

Do what is best for you, don't plan your life on judgment of others. It's like being vein about your uber-fashion-sense-wardrobe appearance or the ones who care if you have the latest, hottest car; the people who care are not the ones you should worry and plan your life around.

petedude

Valsacar wrote: »

So your solution to the problem of their incorrect beliefs as to the value on online learning is to perpetuate it by catering to them?

Let me tell you. . . I used to be pretty rebel about this-- look out world, I have a degree from WGU! Then running into a few walls with recruiters adjusted that a bit. Not the majority of recruiters by any means, but enough of both internal/external recruiters for big gigs that I had to take a different approach.

I don't like it either, but it is what it is. Over time, enough people will graduate from programs like WGU that it won't matter (or WGU will infiltrate more of the stubborn states with their state alliances).

The problem exists mostly in US coastal states, where folks have a significant cultural interest in their regional school systems. I'm not hearing as much of this in the Midwest or in the Southeast.

Devilry wrote: »

Do what is best for you, don't plan your life on judgment of others. It's like being vein about your uber-fashion-sense-wardrobe appearance or the ones who care if you have the latest, hottest car; the people who care are not the ones you should worry and plan your life around.

Wonderful sentiment, and largely true. But landing new employment is mostly a matter of marketing, but who are you marketing to? In many cases, HR people who've never heard of WGU and have no clue about accreditation. I tell you, some of these folks wouldn't know WGU from a local vegetable stand if it isn't sitting right next to them on the street corner. Worse, if rich frat boys are running a company you're applying to, you have an even further uphill battle because the HR people may worry about hiring from an "unknown" school.

Again, this isn't everywhere, and Devilry's "checkbox" sentiment will be correct in most cases. Just note the local cultural bent of employers in your area, and keep that in mind.

veritas_libertas

Valsacar wrote: »

So your solution to the problem of their incorrect beliefs as to the value on online learning is to perpetuate it by catering to them?

I don't remember him saying that. This thread was meant to bring up opinions, not give full 100% support to WGU or B&Ms.

HLRS

Yep, that was IT degrees are, my friend also said he learned nothing. but end of the day the paper matters. even if its in other field. 4 year degree shows that person is ambitous and can over come obstacles

jdancer

Just to let you know, WGU is NOT the only on-line accredited school.

Quite a few B&M's have on-line programs as well.

Hell, even my B&M school has online degrees you can take now.

It wasn't available when I went to school during the dinosaur age.

veritas_libertas

jdancer wrote: »

Just to let you know, WGU is NOT the only on-line accredited school.

Quite a few B&M's have on-line programs as well.

Hell, even my B&M school has online degrees you can take now.

It wasn't available when I went to school during the dinosaur age.

Good point. I believe there is a thread somewhere on TE with online B&M programs.

BradleyHU

i honestly dont see a problem with that IT program from UToledo. But remember, most majors are broad based...so that IT program gives you programming, project mgmt, and client/server aspects. Most students in undergrad are 18-23, and dont know what direction they want to go in the field, so they need to learn the basics of the many aspects of IT....

If you're worried about getting a degree in a particular aspect, then you need to go to one of those schools that offer such programs, and those are usually for-profit online based schools.

Devilry

petedude wrote: »

Wonderful sentiment, and largely true. But landing new employment is mostly a matter of marketing, but who are you marketing to? In many cases, HR people who've never heard of WGU and have no clue about accreditation. I tell you, some of these folks wouldn't know WGU from a local vegetable stand if it isn't sitting right next to them on the street corner. Worse, if rich frat boys are running a company you're applying to, you have an even further uphill battle because the HR people may worry about hiring from an "unknown" school.

Again, this isn't everywhere, and Devilry's "checkbox" sentiment will be correct in most cases. Just note the local cultural bent of employers in your area, and keep that in mind.

True. However, just to add, it still amazes me how many people in my company in Georgia still goes "Ga Tech/UGA, who?" like really? they are top tier throughout the nation.

ODNation

Wow, surprised with the amount feedback I've gotten - thanks everyone.

I've decided to stick with the local B&M university, despite how hard I tried to sell myself on going to WGU; it just seems that going B&M is the safest route to take that will go along with my certs and experience.

Quick story... my cousin who I care for very much went through this very same IT program at UofToledo. He graduated last spring and I set him up with an interview at growing company that specializes in data center virtualization, collaboration, security, mobility, contact centers and network infrastructure. What this company was going to do for him was similar to what CDW has with their Associate Training Program. He completely bombed the interview - he couldn't answer what DHCP, DNS, or even routing was. I was embarrassed because I was the one that referred him - I thought he at least knew the basics. A month later, a big company hires him in as an IT Project Manager. I still cant believe it... but I'm convinced it was all because of the paper and not his self-marketing.

Before I got my promotion, I had updated my profile on Monster, CareerBuilder, and Dice along with sending my resume out to at least 50 job postings I came across on LinkUp. Every single recruiter or HR personnel asked me about my education - most didn't seem to care as my resume got to the hiring manager, but some told me that it's a requirement (i.e. Allstate, Time Warner Telecom, and Cogent) despite having the experience. I had an interview at one of the top pediatric hospitals not long ago and the hiring manager asked me why I don't have a degree, I told them that I watched my sister get six figures in student loan debt pursuing her PhD and I didn't want to be in a similar position, even though it wouldn't be a six figure number. This guy flat out said to me "so you gave up huh?". I told him that I didn't give up, but that I made a rational decision to stay out of heavy debt. Never heard from them again.

Valsacar - I understand what you're saying and I really want to shove it in the faces of HR personnel, but at the end of the day, in my opinion, B&M is a safer route than online. I do believe that online will win in the long run, but I can't roll the dice and bank on it. And while I understand that most people have never heard of the Univ of Toledo (unless you watch MAC college football), searching for it will get you up to speed fairly quickly to differentiate this school from WGU. I hate that I'm "giving in" to the conformist way here, but I'm not a big risk taker to begin with.

veritas_libertas

ODNation wrote: »

Before I got my promotion, I had updated my profile on Monster, CareerBuilder, and Dice along with sending my resume out to at least 50 job postings I came across on LinkUp. Every single recruiter or HR personnel asked me about my education - most didn't seem to care as my resume got to the hiring manager, but some told me that it's a requirement (i.e. Allstate, Time Warner Telecom, and Cogent) despite having the experience. I had an interview at one of the top pediatric hospitals not long ago and the hiring manager asked me why I don't have a degree... I told them that I watched my sister get 6 figures in student loan debt pursuing her PhD and I didn't want to be in a similar position, even though it wouldn't be a 6 figure number. This guy flat out said to me "so you gave up huh?". I told him that I didn't give up, but that I made a rational decision to stay out of heavy debt. Never heard from them again...

That would have really made me angry. I'm not sure I would have been able to hold my tongue.

djfunz

I think the title of this thread cuts itself a little short. Who says that we have to choose? Why not both? Why stop at a Bachelors degree? A Masters will carry the most weight. Heck, pretty soon everyone will have a Bachelors because it's become the HR requirement. When everyone has one, the Masters will be the guy standing out in a crowd.

So, get your Bachelors at WGU and then get your Masters at a B&M or online B&M.

GoodBishop

Something interesting. I was going to a for profit school (for free, as I worked there), but as my new employer will also pay for school, I plan to go to a B&M school and see what credits transfer.

okplaya

The term "online school", in my opinion, is hardly valid anymore. I went to a "B&M school", but they offer online classes. There are very few schools that don't offer online/distant education. Nearly every school offers online Master's degrees. Even the University of Toledo has an extensive online program up to PhD. Come to think of it, WGU is the only school that I'm aware of that has no physical campus and is regionally accredited (I'm sure there are more but I haven't researched).

petedude

djfunz wrote: »

So, get your Bachelors at WGU and then get your Masters at a B&M or online B&M.

And some folks here are doing just that.

whatthehell

I feel B&M, if you can afford the time and monetary investment, is the absolute best. IMHO, the main reason is career networking. It has always been about who you know (and some about what you know), but making new friends/contacts is huge for a B&M program, since you would go through classes, struggles, projects, etc together and build a rapport.
Later on, your new classmates/contacts can hook you up with jobs and vice-versa.

Just my two cents!

gadav478

djfunz wrote: »

I think the title of this thread cuts itself a little short. Who says that we have to choose? Why not both? Why stop at a Bachelors degree? A Masters will carry the most weight. Heck, pretty soon everyone will have a Bachelors because it's become the HR requirement. When everyone has one, the Masters will be the guy standing out in a crowd.

So, get your Bachelors at WGU and then get your Masters at a B&M or online B&M.

ditto! If your Masters degree is in a similar field as your Bachelor's, you can safely conclude that it'll be rare that anyone will care that you went to a online university for your Bachelor's. That's my plan...

N2IT

I did my bachelors at a brick and mortar and now I am doing my MBA at WGU. I think WGU from a business perspective has been better than I expected, harder too. My first class which I am still working on HR I am learned a lot and eBusiness I learned almost as much. Both have opened my eyes up even more than I would of expected at this point. Will I impress a bunch of board room members with my WGU MBA, LMAO hell no, but for a mid level business, management, project role it's more than enough. And for the price it's not bad.

For someone like me who is an average writer it can kick your rear.

Raisin

ODNation wrote: »

I've decided to stick with the local B&M university, despite how hard I tried to sell myself on going to WGU; it just seems that going B&M is the safest route to take that will go along with my certs and experience.

With your certifications you'd have half the classes needed for a BSIT degree already finished at WGU. If you're getting beat up in interviews for not having a degree I don't see how spending a much longer amount of time in school can be considered playing it safe. The way I see it there's no guarantee that a degree snob won't turn their nose up at your B&M school too. With the time and money you save at WGU you can move on to a well known masters program which will stomp all over any B&M school.