How do I go from military IT to civilian IT.

Cyltin

Hello there! As a caveat I'd like to say that I'm new to the forums and really had no idea on where to place this particular question. I'm a Staff Sergeant in the Army currently and made the decision, after ten years, to make the transition to civilian life for my family.

That being said, I've been doing IT for those ten years but more in a 'learn this now!' sense when things are thrown in front of me. I've also run a 'helpdesk' of over thirty personnel in the past for a few years.

The military is finally giving me the ability to go for my certifications, and I've already recieved my Security+ and am testing for my Network+ tomorrow.

That being said, the military is all about CompTIA and I've gotten the vibe that the civilian side is more about Cisco than anything else, am I right on that?

With that assumption, I'm thinking it might be hard to make myself marketable to employers with just a Network+ and Security+ certification, especially considering I would like to make $50k+ when I transition.

So I guess my real question is, what are the certifications I should really be trying to get before I leave the service in nine months? I've found that I have a particular affinity for the security side of things but I really don't know which route to take to get either on the Network tech or Security side of things.

If anyone could provide me with any information regarding the paths I should take for either line of certifications it would be appreciated.

Also, is it better to pay for classes to get these certs or simply go off of books and exam preps? Like I said, total newb to the civilian way of doing things.

YuckTheFankees

In the ten years of your experience, what technologies have you been working with?

Cyltin

Honestly, a hodge-podge of things. Most of the work I've done would have to be considered deskside stuff. I mean, troubleshooting someone's laptop and software issues, although when we aren't in hardstand buildings we do set up an entire LAN, servers, switches and all for 250+ users. But I'll be honest, I need to basically re-teach myself those technologies everytime I have to set them up because really I only deal with it maybe three or four times a year.

I think I'm at a point where I look at things and go "oh yeah, I know what that is", but actually need to sit down and start messing with it to make the little 'aha light' go on in my head. And sometimes it actually takes someone showing me how to do it briefly to make that light happen. I can pick up on things quickly, just seems like the skills atrophy rather quickly when not in use.

WafflesAndRootbeer

The military is about whatever certs you can get that apply to your role. There's a table you can dig up on the Army career site that lists certs and job roles. CompTIA certs are just a small part of that list of certs that are counted towards promotion in the Army so look at the rest of the stuff and see if there is anything there you like that you might be able to get the Army to cover for you. After you get your Network+, prep and get the A+ and you pretty much have a guaranteed job with your Veteran's Preference in addition to any security clearance you have. Networking might seem like a great way to make money after the military but the turnover and burnout rate for those who work in that field is pretty high because the expectations are great and the pressure is always on. A more basic tech support role would be better for you to get your feet wet outside of the Army if you aren't really at the point where you can wrestle with the expensive and time-consuming road to becoming a network professional.

YuckTheFankees

Do you have a degree?

Roguetadhg

Welcome, Cyltin.

There's a lot of paths and a lot of specialties in the IT world. A lot of careers can be made from just one 'branch'.

Since you seem to enjoy Security, I'd recommend following "Infosec" section. As they are, all about, security - or the lack thereof.

'Cisco' is more about building what everything else uses. Networking computers, databases, wireless, voice, as well as security (To the degree i'm sure isn't as in depth as InfoSec). Although I don't know much about InfoSec beyond talking a guy that worked as a security and penetration. You can definitely make a living without touching Cisco certs.

You can study by yourself with books, and labs, and exam preps. I've done that. You can also go through schools. The benefit of the schooling side is that you'll have people to have push you, or you can push them. Knowledge from a class can seen from a different perspective than the teachers which may also help you.

As far as pay - that's an issue of where you will be living, experience that's seen worthy for that job, how much it's in demand.

networker050184

It is very easy to transition into civilian IT. When I came out after six years I had no problem finding a job. Most people go the government route afterwords but that really wasn't for me. I got an offer from the first place I really interviewed with and haven't had any issue with employment since.

What you need to do is actually sit down and really learn all those technologies you get to touch every once in a while. Some experience on the resume and being able to speak to that in interviews is what will get you jobs. Getting a certification is a good way to brush up on the details that you may have forgotten over time.

One thing I would definitely look into if I were you is managing a helpdesk. You have the direct experience to transfer over and civilian companies love ex military leaders.

Good luck!

JDMurray

Verizon Wireless is looking to hire returning military personnel for IT jobs in Twingsburg, OH and Irvine, CA. I believe it's more NetOps work rather than data center work.

Check the VZW Careers site for all openings around the USA. VZW usually has a presence at job fairs for transitioning military too. Also check out Top 100 Military Friendly Employers.

Verizon Careers | Careers for Transitioning Military
Verizon | Verizon Recognized for Its Military Recruiting and Hiring Practices

spicy ahi

Have you checked the COOL website? https://www.cool.army.mil/enlisted/25b.htm It has a lot of good information for anyone planning to get out, and the link in particular is for 25 Bravo's (which I'm assuming you are, given what you've done) I used to point soldiers who'd ask me about civilian life to check it out and point out one or two things that interested them and that's the work that I would focus them on doing (as well as help them acquire the appropriate certs) It's a good starting point to check out. Also, you could find a class on ATRRS https://www.atrrs.army.mil/ and see if your command is willing to sponsor you for a class. I had a guy in my shop who was ETS'ing and the command was willing to sponsor his CCNA class @Ft. Gordon, and he was flying out of Hawaii. So it's possible (highly unlikely, but if you built up enough brownie points like this guy did then you've got a shot). PM me your email address if your email if you want to continue convo. offline.

Valsacar

8570 says baseline cert (CompTIA for most low level) and an appropriate computing environment (the part everyone forgets). That could mean MS or Cisco in most cases. Given your experience, I agree that looking for a help desk manager position would be your best bet. Get some certs related to that, CCNA or MS, maybe look at HDI (not sure how big they are, but I've been hearing more about them lately for helpdesk people) and ITILv3 Foundations. I don't see you having time (without cheating) to get anything much bigger.

You could also look into GS or contracting jobs, if you want to stay in the realm of military without the uniform. Remember, that clearance has a time limit, so unless you do reserves it'll go away in about a year after you leave the service.

gunbunnysoulja

Valsacar wrote: »

You could also look into GS or contracting jobs, if you want to stay in the realm of military without the uniform. Remember, that clearance has a time limit, so unless you do reserves it'll go away in about a year after you leave the service.

I heavily suggest GS and/or contracting. Use your clearance, get preference for your service, etc. I was offered a GS11 VRA with very little credentials/experience in the past for an IT position that typically ladders 7/9/11. Turned it down for better options but just saying they take care of their people. I love being a DoD contractor.

nerdydad

SSG, here is what worked for me.

Save enough money before you get out so that you can live off your GI Bill housing, enroll in a University that has a Networking Academy (assuming networking is where you want to be). Study your ass off for the first year and immediately get your CCNA, then go looking for a job. During your first year, you are going to gain experience and continue your studies through CCNP, once again, study and pass the exams. While you are in school, it is important to help your fellow students, this is some of the best networking you can do. Also I recommend taking evening classes, the day classes are filled with young kids, the evening ones with people working in the field already but looking to get certs, these are the guys that can point you to the job openings and recommend you, especially if you have proven yourself as a team player.

Good luck.

NetworkVeteran

That being said, the military is all about CompTIA and I've gotten the vibe that the civilian side is more about Cisco than anything else, am I right on that?

The Vibe is not that CompTIA is bad, but rather that it's too simple/basic for even many entry-level jobs. Certainly, the civilian IT world is not "All about Cisco". There are several big players even in the networking game, and then there's the whole server side of things, programming, databases, etc. What it's "all about" depends on what you'd like to be doing.

So I guess my real question is, what are the certifications I should really be trying to get before I leave the service in nine months?

You should be attempting to certify what you already sorta know. You aren't going to be given credit for many intermediate-level certifications without experience to back them up.

You should also attempt an entry-level certification in whatever area most interests you.

Perhaps look for positions where your clearances are an asset.

Mrock4

SSG- I was literally where you are now a year ago. I recently ETS'd a year ago, and haven't looked back. I tell all of my buddies ETS'ing soon (most don't listen)......get certified! I wouldn't limit yourself to Cisco- but rather anything that interests you. Look at job postings in your area, see what is in demand- if that interests you, work on the cert and gain experience either on the job (if possible) or by labbing at home.

For what it's worth, I was hell bent on not being a contractor at first, but truth be told- that's stupid. As others have said, use your clearance, gain some experience, then you can branch out from there to non-government organizations, or go the other way, and become a GS.

At the end of the day, the difference between you succeeding when you get out and not succeeding- is the work you put in now towards education/certs. Granted this is my personal view, but I have literally seen no less than 5 former soldiers/airmen get out in the last year, and those who were prepared, did well. Those who weren't, applied to GameStop (really).

With regards to whether or not you should pay for classes/etc..it's up to you. I personally have no issue paying for every cert I've earned, because the ROI is huge. Few hundred bucks for an exam/prep, and a decent raise, higher paying job, etc.

One final note- please..PLEASE, do not take the first job offered to you if you decide to contract. It will be tempting, as you want to provide for your family. Companies can, and absolutely *will* lowball you since they know you're fresh out of the military. I got out, and was offered $20k less than the average for someone with my qualifications, based on my previous salary (since they knew my rank, they knew my pay). Just keep your eyes open, get the resume straight (and keep it updated), study hard, and it will all work out.

Best of luck- thanks for your service.

networker050184

Mrock4 wrote: »

At the end of the day, the difference between you succeeding when you get out and not succeeding- is the work you put in now towards education/certs. Granted this is my personal view, but I have literally seen no less than 5 former soldiers/airmen get out in the last year, and those who were prepared, did well. Those who weren't, applied to GameStop (really).

This is the best advice you will get right here. I had guys that I got out with that did the same MOS as me but they never took the time to actually learn and get themselves ready to transition. They either ended up back in within six months or working mall security. Its all about making things happen for yourself!

Cyltin

Wanted to thank everyone for their advice on what to do next. I'll be taking it all to heart, and intend to push myself for the next nine months to get where I need to be. I would love to hear any more information/opinions that anyone has and you'll probably see me lurking about the forums quite a bit from now on, trying to ensure my future success!

Passed the Network+ exam with an 880 today, and I'm setting my sights on CCNA and CCNA Security next. I'll probably be picking up A+ and Windows 7 somewhere in there as well, considering the Army will pay for those as well.

To answer a question and clarify something else.

@YucktheFankees - Don't have a degree yet, have about 60-70 odd credits sitting around because I couldn't make up my mind on what I wanted to do. The good news is that the Army will pay for my degree when I get out AND pay me about $1200 a month while I'm in school. Was hoping to leverage that with an employer by letting them know I could pick up a degree that helps the business. Although, after getting this advice, I think I've settled on Information Security.

@spicyahi - I was a 25U/31U for eight of those years, and now I'm a 25E. Actually ran one of the S6 shops out there in Hawaii up through 2011 before I re-classed. I miss the islands! Although I will say I would put my skills up against any 25B I've met, in the spirit of friendly inter-regimental competition that is.

Valsacar

Mrock4 wrote: »

One final note- please..PLEASE, do not take the first job offered to you if you decide to contract. It will be tempting, as you want to provide for your family. Companies can, and absolutely *will* lowball you since they know you're fresh out of the military. I got out, and was offered $20k less than the average for someone with my qualifications, based on my previous salary (since they knew my rank, they knew my pay). Just keep your eyes open, get the resume straight (and keep it updated), study hard, and it will all work out.

I agree and disagree here, I got low balled as well (but enough to survive) but was promoted (2 steps) and got a 35% pay raise (closer to where I should be) at around 6 months. As long as they are willing (and honest, my supervisor did have to fight the HR demons to make it happen) to do a 6 month re-eval then I'm ok with taking lower that I might be able to get if everything else is ok.

Mrock4

Congrats on the pass!!

spicy ahi

Cyltin wrote: »

@spicyahi - I was a 25U/31U for eight of those years, and now I'm a 25E. Actually ran one of the S6 shops out there in Hawaii up through 2011 before I re-classed. I miss the islands! Although I will say I would put my skills up against any 25B I've met, in the spirit of friendly inter-regimental competition that is.

So you're a radio and spectrums guy eh? Well, my last job I was the IMO and I had a 25U assigned to me. Great with radios, not so much with IT stuff. I got him squared away before I left, and in fact he's planning to go to Honolulu Community College's CENT program when he gets out. Oh and judging by your attitude and the thought you've put into your study plan, I believe that you're probably better than most of the Bravo's I personally know. Most of them still have a hard time logging into a switch!

Oh, and congratulations on the pass!

Mrock4

spicy ahi wrote: »

So you're a radio and spectrums guy eh? Well, my last job I was the IMO and I had a 25U assigned to me. Great with radios, not so much with IT stuff. I got him squared away before I left, and in fact he's planning to go to Honolulu Community College's CENT program when he gets out. Oh and judging by your attitude and the thought you've put into your study plan, I believe that you're probably better than most of the Bravo's I personally know. Most of them still have a hard time logging into a switch!

Watch it! I'm a former bravo

instant000

Cyltin wrote: »

Hello there! As a caveat I'd like to say that I'm new to the forums and really had no idea on where to place this particular question. I'm a Staff Sergeant in the Army currently and made the decision, after ten years, to make the transition to civilian life for my family.

I'm prior service also. I ETS'd from Fort Riley in 2006. If I had known then what I'm going to tell you now, I'd be a lot better off.

That being said, I've been doing IT for those ten years but more in a 'learn this now!' sense when things are thrown in front of me. I've also run a 'helpdesk' of over thirty personnel in the past for a few years.

Well, since you're used to it, I can easily tell you that's not going to change for the foreseeable future There is always something new to learn. You can probably use your management experience to your advantage.

The military is finally giving me the ability to go for my certifications, and I've already received my Security+ and am testing for my Network+ tomorrow.

That being said, the military is all about CompTIA and I've gotten the vibe that the civilian side is more about Cisco than anything else, am I right on that?

With that assumption, I'm thinking it might be hard to make myself marketable to employers with just a Network+ and Security+ certification, especially considering I would like to make $50k+ when I transition.

It depends on you at this point. How much time do you have before you get out? I was at about that range when I first got out, but I'm double that now, after six year. But, keep a few things in mind when you get out:
1 - Housing
2 - Food
3 - Health care

I know those are some basic things, but I know that the military gives an allowance for those items, so, you never have to worry about a place to stay, what you're going to eat, or what to do if someone gets sick. In the civilian world, you see people working simply for the health care

So I guess my real question is, what are the certifications I should really be trying to get before I leave the service in nine months?

I've found that I have a particular affinity for the security side of things but I really don't know which route to take to get either on the Network tech or Security side of things.

If you've ten years in service as a 25B, you easily meet the experience requirements for CISSP. That will set you up nicely for a wide variety of positions when you get out. Also, a lot of the AR 25-2/DoDI 8500.2 stuff you deal with on a daily basis will be second nature to you, as I really think they gear that test towards DoD.

If anyone could provide me with any information regarding the paths I should take for either line of certifications it would be appreciated.

From the recent post, you've already passed Network+ At this point, you should try to get your stuff coordinated for studying for the CISSP and the CCNA. Right now, the DoD is going to transition from DIACAP to DIARMF within the next couple years. Someone with your experience in 25B (that is your MOS, right?) would be ideal to go into IA.

Also, is it better to pay for classes to get these certs or simply go off of books and exam preps? Like I said, total newb to the civilian way of doing things.

This depends upon how you learn, and how aggressive you are. Are you able to learn on your own? If so, doing it yourself has its rewards, especially considering this community will support you all the way. If, for whatever reason, you do decide to study Cisco, I would advise you to just get the All Access Pass, and not look back.

There are three components you need to work on:
experience
certification
education

You have the experience part covered. You've worked in the trenches (literally) and you've supervised those who work in the trenches. Ideally, you'd want a position doing whatever you' feel most experienced in.

Certfication - you probably need to hit this part the heaviest right now, considering the time investment versus reward ratio you would gain at this time

Education - Look into WGU right away. Self-paced education would allow a motivated soldier who wants to provide for his family tremendous motivation to get things done. If you do go the WGU route, make sure you look up the post for "15 tips for success" a great post on optimizing your study time.

If getting out is the same way I remember it, there is going to be lots of slack time except for some appointments and details. Heck, if you go on staff duty, then study. (I know that we were allowed educational materials during staff duty, we just weren't allowed "recreational" materials.)

You can consider these next nine months your pregnant preparation for the civilian side. You can either go through the labor pains and end up with a bundle of joy, or regrets that you did not do better. The choice is up to you.

Your career is your baby. Take care of it!

Hooah!

spicy ahi

Mrock4 wrote: »

Watch it! I'm a former bravo

So you're not one of these high speed troops I take it?

Mrock4

spicy ahi wrote: »

So you're not one of these high speed troops I take it?

Just realized you're in hawaii...go say whats up to 25ID on Schofield!

instant000

spicy ahi wrote: »

Oh and judging by your attitude and the thought you've put into your study plan, I believe that you're probably better than most of the Bravo's I personally know. Most of them still have a hard time logging into a switch!

*Ahem* I'm a former 25B, and I take offense at that, also

But, it is probably true.

I remember when I was in, and my assignments went in this order:
CSSAMO (Carson) > DOIM (Seoul) > PSB (Riley) > Armor BN (Riley)

I didn't get to touch much of networking (from the switch/router side) besides AIT and CSSAMO (remember when the CAISI was a big green box) and when I deployed with the Armor BN. Nowadays, it's even worse for that. Unless you get a really good assignment, most 25B are just unit-level IMOs. The NECs are so over-run by civilians in many places I've been to lately. Oh yeah, if you are a Bravo, I would recommend trying to get into a CSSAMO, as you get to touch UNIX, Windows, and Routing. Nowadays, you even get Wireless too, as the CAISI is wireless now. If you can't get there, then when I served in Seoul, we did have a LAN/WAN platoon, but they were at the other end of the spectrum, as in they could configure a router/switch or troubleshoot your DSL, but you wouldn't trust them to install Microsoft Office.

instant000

From your profile "Will be looking for an IT job in a 2-3 hour radius drive of Toledo, OH when I get out."

1. Security Clearance Jobs - ClearanceJobs.com - this is always preferred. The only thing I can say is that if I had known in advance, I'd have done an MOS that required a TS before getting out, LOL.

2. Cisco hires for government positions, from time to time.

instant000

But, seriously, best advice I can give right now is to get the CISSP, and as high as you can get in Cisco. People are hiring for DIACAP all over the place.

afcyung

This thread has been very informational. It has reaffirmed my current goals and plan to separate from the Air Force in two years.

spicy ahi

@MRock - haha. Will do. I've since moved on to NCTAMS so now I deal with squids. It's weird since nearly my entire civilian career has been in the Army and now I'm here it's like being a newbie all over again. I do drop by to visit buddies on post though, so I see those 25ID guys here and there. Or run into them at Maui Mike's or the new Teddy's Bigger Burgers.

@instant - gah, another bravo puke. Well said though. Bravo's have it hardest out of everybody in the 25 series since your role is pretty much whatever they want you to do. And since you guys tend to have the most billets in an unit, you become the de facto body to fill x opening (one of my buddies did COMSEC as a 25B his entire career, which strangely only lasted 8 years and I still wonder why ) I made the comment about networking only because I never met one who had any net skills. Apparently, they all get out and end up on TE. Also good call on the CISSP and infosec, it's indeed a growing space and personally, in the month I've had this thing, I've gotten about 8 inquiries so far because of it. Prior to that, I got maybe 6 inquiries from the beginning of the year. I'd also give it a recommendation for you, cyltin, if you don't mind doing the IA piece.

spicy ahi

afcyung wrote: »

This thread has been very informational. It has reaffirmed my current goals and plan to separate from the Air Force in two years.

You planning to totally separate or transition into the reserves? I'd start taking a look at the process to give you some idea of it since you have time to do the homework. Two friends of mine from back in the day are getting out and transitioning to the reserves. One of them is actually sliding into a full time AGR slot so he'll still be working on his retirement. The other has 14 in and just wants to retire, even if it's as a reservist. He just wants to get the TriCare coverage for him and his family. Of course, he also got a contractor position where he'll be drilling so I'm sure that didn't play any role in him getting the job.

I bring it up only because being a reservist/guardsman is cake in the AF branch so I always advise airmen getting out to look at it because you get to continue your service, and it also opens a lot of doors when first entering the civilian world (you'll find a lot of contractors are reservists; myself included!) Oh, and a bonus is if you forget your CaC card all the time like me, you have a backup card so you can still get on base and log into your machine.

curtisc83

In my line of work I run into tons of 25U's at little COP, VSP's or whatever. And they ask how do I get your job since I was prior service as well (25F). I tell them all the same thing. Go to indeed.com and search in the area you want to work. Use clearance or whatever for your search parameters. After a little bit you'll start seeing a trend on what is the expected certs and edu in that area. Also start building your brand. Go to linkedin.com and make a profile and build on it. One thing that I think is retarded is some people use linkedin only when they need it. Don't do that always build on it and connect to recruiters in your desired area you want to work in. They post open positions all the time. You don't exist till you start networking. Just my 2 cents. Here is my profile just in case you want to see a developed profile. Christopher Curtis | LinkedIn

Mrock4

Maui Mikes! Does Maui mike (the hobo) still hang out outside staring with a blank expression? Miss The island..