How to transition into Network Administration

Jackace

Like a few others that have posted here in the past I am trying to make the career move from where I am now (data center operations) into Network Administration. My background is I have a bachelor's degree in Information Technology Management: Network Administration and my CCNA. I have worked in Desktop support with some junior system and network administration tasks included, I have worked help desk, and now I am working data center operations support. The problem I'm having is every job wants someone with work experience. Moving up with my current employer is most likely not going to happen in this decade. We just have too many people all waiting to move up and no one is leaving or retiring. I am however getting access to networking projects after asking one of our network engineers for guidance and mentoring. Now it just comes down to landing that first job, but when level 1 jobs require 3-5 years experience and no employers seem willing to train I just don't understand how I am supposed to break into this industry.

In order to make myself stand out more I'm pursuing more certifications (CCNA Security and Voice) and working on projects at work that have a networking focus. Sadly there won't be any real chance for me to move up with my current company, but I am looking for advice on how to approach finding a new job as a network administrator when every job requires experience doing the job on a day to day basis and I have none?

RouteThisWay

I am working on a thread that answers this question in my professional experience, but- I will toss some advice your way.

First off, it sounds like you are in a good position- especially since one of the engineers there is getting you access to some of the network projects.

Secondly, don't let the work experience requirements throw you off. I have 4, almost 5 years experience- I just landed a job asking for 10. That is an arbitrary number. I have found that time of work experience is more about working in a production environment. You are doing all of the right things- you are getting experience, certifications, and have found someone who is giving you an in. Be sure to document all of higher level project work you are doing so you can put it on your resume.

But remember, if it is on your resume- be sure you can speak intelligently about it. Just because you logged into the CLI of a Cisco router doesn't mean you fully understand the different dynamic routing protocols, etc.

Look at job postings for jobs you think you would like. Pay attention to the skills they are looking for- and find a way to get them on your resume. You seem to be doing this already- getting some mentoring with the network engineer. I think you really have found your way to get the experience you want.

To clarify, what does Data Center Operations Support do? What skills do you use on a regular basis?

Jackace

Thank you for the response RouteThisWay. The network Engineer is very nice to give me some experience. It won't be a lot, but it is better than none. The problem is I have no options with my current company so I am forced to look else where to get my start. I'm just hoping the little experience I do get from this will be enough. I have tried to apply for jobs, but I get denied almost immediately because I do not have the day to day experience. The few places I do get an interview I make it to the last round, but it always comes down to experience and my lack of it.

As for what I do as a data center operator, it's a lot of different stuff. I take help desk calls, I monitor daily backups and restore requests, I monitor for network and server outages, I monitor batch job processing on a mainframe and as400 system, I manage parts of the Avaya Voicemail system, I manage the conference call system, etc. Nothing is too specialized or highly technical though.

NetworkVeteran

The few places I do get an interview I make it to the last round, but it always comes down to experience and my lack of it.

If they weren't open to someone with no experience, they would've required it in the job description, and not interviewed you. There's more to their choice than that.

We just have too many people all waiting to move up.. no employers seem willing to train I just don't understand how I am supposed to break into this industry.

The problem is, there are other candidates hungry enough to self-train!

A couple months ago you planned on taking the CCNA Security exam. If those plans materialize, you will be a stronger candidate. I hope you are also reviewing the CCNA material, and it's wonderful that you're getting some hands-on practice with your local networking guy.

networker050184

NetworkVeteran wrote: »

If they weren't open to someone with no experience, they would've required it in the job description, and not interviewed you. There's more to their choice than that.

Agree with this. If they are willing to bring you in they would be open to hiring you. Take some time to focus on your interviewing skills. Sell yourself and convince them that you are the one for the job.

Jackace

NetworkVeteran wrote: »

If they weren't open to someone with no experience, they would've required it in the job description, and not interviewed you. There's more to their choice than that.

Two of places actually said if they could hire 2 people I would be the second. They just needed someone with more day to day experience. I fully admit the other candidate that got the job had more experience, but that seems to always be the case. How do you address this problem and get experience if you can't get the job to get the experience?

NetworkVeteran wrote: »

The problem is, there are other candidates hungry enough to self-train!

A couple months ago you planned on taking the CCNA Security exam. If those plans materialize, you will be a stronger candidate. I hope you are also reviewing the CCNA material, and it's wonderful that you're getting some hands-on practice with your local networking guy.

I have self trained. I went to college specifically for network administration, completed the CCNA, and in a few weeks will be taking the CCNA Security. In fact every interview I have went to said I was one of their top performers technically. My weakness is experience, and it seems that wins over technical knowledge in interviews.

RouteThisWay

There is a reason experience wins over "technical knowledge".

It's because you really don't have the knowledge until you are experienced. You can read about it in books, blogs, magazines, forums, etc all day long- but you will rarely find an entity, especially in the SMB world, that follows everything by the book and best practices. Experience shows you can adapt to an environment and can be trusted with the so called "keys to the kingdom".

If your current role has you maxed out technically to the point where you aren't learning anything new, have absolutely 0% chance of learning anything new, then you need to change. Look to transfer yourself to a lateral positional somewhere else that has a higher room for growth potential.

But, I digress. It sounds like you are going to be able to get the experience at this position. This network guy has agreed to help you out and is including you in projects. This does not mean there "is no chance". It sounds like you are becoming a little impatient.

You need to realize that if you aren't at the next level to make that jump in your career, you need to get there by either A) getting the experience at your current role or find another role that can get you the experience.

There is nothing wrong with a lateral move if it will present you with a higher chance of growth.

Jackace

RouteThisWay wrote: »

But, I digress. It sounds like you are going to be able to get the experience at this position. This network guy has agreed to help you out and is including you in projects. This does not mean there "is no chance". It sounds like you are becoming a little impatient.

The network guy is going to help me, but his manager says I have almost 0 chance of getting into his group. The best he can do is toss me a bone every once in awhile and it is on things that don't really matter, like the test network.

RouteThisWay wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with a lateral move if it will present you with a higher chance of growth.

My concern with this is every place promises growth to get you hired. My current company promised all kinds of growth, but then I found out later that last guy to get out of where I am now took 15 years. That doesn't sound like growth to me. Making a lateral move to end up in the same place I am now would really suck because I would most likely have to take a pay cut for that move.

NetworkVeteran

Jackace wrote: »

They just needed someone with more day to day experience.

I might approach this is with a question--"Oh! I didn't realize the position required experience. Did you know I didn't have any experience when you invited me to interview for this role?" Again, common sense says that either they are open to someone without experience, or your correspondences are not accurately conveying your experience-level. Busy people try not to waste time interviewing people they can't hire.

Jackace wrote:

every place promises growth to get you hired. My current company promised all kinds of growth, but then I found out later..

Ask them to put any specific, measurable make-or-break promises directly in the contract and you'll have no further problems. I've never been promised "growth". That sounds rather vague. During my last employment hunt I did negotiate a specific budget/bonus for CCIE training.

Jackace

NetworkVeteran wrote: »

I might approach this is with a question--"Oh! I didn't realize the position required experience. Did you know I didn't have any experience when you invited me to interview for this role?" Again, common sense says that either they are open to someone without experience, or your correspondences are not accurately conveying your experience-level. Busy people try not to waste time interviewing people they can't hire.

I asked. They said they knew my experience was limited to projects, but I was one of the first interviews they setup and later they had applicants with more experience apply. They did like my technical knowledge and if they had room in the budget to hire a second person they would hire me, but they have to go with someone who has been their and done the job before.

NetworkVeteran wrote: »

Ask them to put any specific, measurable make-or-break promises directly in the contract and you'll have no further problems. I've never been promised "growth". That sounds rather vague. During my last employment hunt I did negotiate a specific budget/bonus for CCIE training.

At this point experience is what I need. I have never heard of someone taking one job, but in the contract requiring that the company give them experience in another job. Will any employers actually do that?

Jackace

RouteThisWay wrote: »

There is a reason experience wins over "technical knowledge".

It's because you really don't have the knowledge until you are experienced. You can read about it in books, blogs, magazines, forums, etc all day long- but you will rarely find an entity, especially in the SMB world, that follows everything by the book and best practices. Experience shows you can adapt to an environment and can be trusted with the so called "keys to the kingdom".

If your current role has you maxed out technically to the point where you aren't learning anything new, have absolutely 0% chance of learning anything new, then you need to change. Look to transfer yourself to a lateral positional somewhere else that has a higher room for growth potential.

But, I digress. It sounds like you are going to be able to get the experience at this position. This network guy has agreed to help you out and is including you in projects. This does not mean there "is no chance". It sounds like you are becoming a little impatient.

You need to realize that if you aren't at the next level to make that jump in your career, you need to get there by either A) getting the experience at your current role or find another role that can get you the experience.

There is nothing wrong with a lateral move if it will present you with a higher chance of growth.

I totally understand why experience is important, but I'm still struggling to figure out how to get that experience. I'm willing to make a lateral move, but it's most likely going to require a $5-6 an hour pay cut. If I knew it would lead to something better I would make that move in a heart beat, but like I said in another post employers will say all kinds of things to hire you and once hired you find out it's no different from where you were before. My current job was actually a lateral move and they told me I had a path to network engineering. I find out after getting hired there is no path and I'm doing almost the exact same things I did in my last job.

RouteThisWay

Hey man I understand- it is tough out there. There is absolutely no guarantee that the job you leave for will have everything promised. You need to look at it from an Employer's point of view. They are hiring you for a job. The job isn't to "grow in the company". The job is to perform that duties assigned to you. It is up to you to work hard to do so. It costs money to hire people, train them, etc. I am also a pro-company guy and am not one of the "companies are evil" people, so I may be a bit bias. But a lot goes into hiring and training people- they want to know that person is going to stay in the job for awhile and not expect to move out in a couple months.

If you feel your job is a dead end one with no chance of learning anything new (notice I said learning something new, not "moving up". Big difference) then move on. If you are learning something new then stay and continue to learn. Also, what is wrong with "project work"? That is what being an admin is all about- you are constantly doing projects.

Anyhow, if you decide you need to leave- switching jobs is always a risk. It may not be as advertised. You may be doing more things you didn't want to do. They could have just straight up lied to you. And that is fine- that is why you are free to leave if you want. But there is a flip side to the coin- it could be the best thing that has ever happened to you.

There is nothing I or anyone can say that is going to make you feel better about making a lateral move on a gamble. It is always a gamble. You may like your new position, you may hate it. You just need to be as informed as possible and make sure it is the right one. It is scary, I know. But if you honestly feel you are stagnant in your role and not getting the experience you need- then I would look to go. In my experience, I looked for a small business help desk. They usually give a lot more latitude in helping out with the day to day admin work in Active Directory, etc and can usually build you up if you show the aptitude and determination.

Good luck.

Jackace

RouteThisWay wrote: »

Also, what is wrong with "project work"? That is what being an admin is all about- you are constantly doing projects.

Projects are actually what I want to be doing instead of all this phone and email support. My current company does a lot of projects and I get access to some of them, but because I have phone and email support duties I am severely limited on what they will allow me to do. The networking guy is tossing me a bone when he can because he knows I know what I'm doing, but he can't get me anything big or important. It's mostly just stuff that isn't very technical and no one else wants to do. It is experience, but not really the kind of experience employers are looking for.

Thanks for all the advice. It just sucks that I have already made one lateral move and ended up in the same dead end I was before. Making another lateral move and also losing money to just end up in another dead end would really suck. I knew moving to my current job I wouldn't really be learning anything new in the position I was hired. It was the chance to work for a larger organization and the ability to move up that brought me here. Had I known what I know now I would never have taken the job in the first place. I make a little more money now, but I work nights, weekends and holidays.

NetworkVeteran

Jackace wrote:

I asked. They said they knew my experience was limited to projects, but I was one of the first interviews they setup and later they had applicants with more experience apply.

That confirms that the role did not require more experience. They had a preference for more experience. Experience is one factor--others include technical competence, being personeable, having a good work ethic, references, communication skills, hours you're willing to work, rates being charged, etc. Work on those, and your interview skills. Ask friends for help.

I receive most of my job offers within 48hrs of interviewing. They are so compelled to hire me, they don't want to risk that I might not be available at a later date.

Jackace wrote: »

I said in another post employers will say all kinds of things to hire you and once hired you find out it's no different from where you were before. Will any employers actually do that?

I've never had any trouble getting an employer to put what they promised into a contract--in specific, measureable, timely terms with appropriate consequences. Well, once I did, and that was illuminating.. as it turned the hiring manager did not control what he promised, and the real owner didn't plan to deliver anything. Make employment decision based on what's real.

because I have phone and email support duties I am severely limited on what they will allow me to do.

I don't get the connection. Say you signed up for 45-50hrs of phone/e-mail support. At 9am those duties start. At 6pm those duties are over. Substitute whatever schedule you agreed to. Say you're willing to work extra hours--but only doing networking. Why would they have a problem with you doing this extra work for them? I first got my feet wet in network security by doing a weekend project. The weekday objection, "We're paying you for X" was easy to overcome--they do not pay me for my off-hours. If you choose to work then, you can choose not to do support.

Often the manager I was helping was appreciate of the off-hours help and sent me a bonus, which partially covered my costs in taking up such a side-objective.

Jackace

NetworkVeteran wrote: »

I don't get the connection. Say you signed up for 45-50hrs of phone/e-mail support. At 9am those duties start. At 6pm those duties are over. Substitute whatever schedule you agreed to. Say you're willing to work extra hours--but only doing networking. Why would they have a problem with you doing this extra work for them? I first got my feet wet in network security by doing a weekend project. The weekday objection, "We're paying you for X" was easy to overcome--they do not pay me for my off-hours. If you choose to work then, you can choose not to do support.

Thank you for the advice I appreciate it. I will look into getting interviewing tips. As for the part quoted above I am actually paid hourly and I am in a job classification for 24x7 support so if I come in the building at night or on the weekend by law they have to pay me and they do not want to pay me to learn networking. I tried to volunteer at a non-profit and certifications were not enough for them either. They wanted someone with experience. They told me I could work on their desktop computers and a few of the file print servers, but not any of the networking equipment.

Edit - Sorry I know I might be coming off as antagonistic in my responses, but I have tried a lot of different things to get experience before posting here and it seems every where I go I get shot down. It has begun to feel like a HUGE catch 22 that I'm never going to break. At this point I am looking to move to a bigger market where there is more demand for IT personnel.

NetworkVeteran

Jackace wrote: »

Thank I am actually paid hourly and I am in a job classification for 24x7 support so if I come in the building at night or on the weekend by law they have to pay me

Jack, red tape is simple to cut through, if both parties are committed to cutting through it. In this case, you can agree to a pay-cut for your current position, contingent on doing 8 hours of networking work per week. Define that in whatever terms seem reasonable.

The math--
$CURRENT_RATE x 40 = ($NEW_RATE x 40) + (1.5 * $NEW_RATE * 8 )
$CURRENT_RATE x 40 = $NEW_RATE x 52
(40/52) * CURRENT_RATE = $NEW_RATE

In other words, if your current rate is $18/hr, your new rate is (40/52) * $18/hr = $13.85

As long as your new rate is > $8/hr, you meet all legal requirements.

If you do good work, your support manager should be happy to make you content without increased pay, and the networking manager should be happy to be getting free work from you. Especially these well-defined hours, that they're able to plan for and count on. They will need to convince HR, but HR will sign-off on some work-around if your manager really wants it.

I'm willing to make a lateral move, but it's most likely going to require a $5-6 an hour pay cut. If I knew it would lead to something better I would make that move in a heart beat

In this case, you're taking home the same pay, your cut is only $4/hr, and you're guaranteed to get the sort of work you desire. It's a win-win solution.

Jackace

NetworkVeteran wrote: »

Jack, red tape is simple to cut through, if both parties are committed to cutting through it. In this case, you can agree to a pay-cut for your current position, contingent on doing 8 hours of networking work per week. Define that in whatever terms seem reasonable.

The math--
$CURRENT_RATE x 40 = ($NEW_RATE x 40) + (1.5 * $NEW_RATE * 8 )
$CURRENT_RATE x 40 = $NEW_RATE x 52
(40/52) * CURRENT_RATE = $NEW_RATE

In other words, if your current rate is $18/hr, your new rate is (40/52) * $18/hr = $13.85

As long as your new rate is > $8/hr, you meet all legal requirements.

If you do good work, your support manager should be happy to make you content without increased pay, and the networking manager should be happy to be getting free work from you. They will need to convince HR, but HR will sign-off on some work-around if your manager really wants it.

I hear you on this. I will have to approach them about this. Still no guarantees at my current company though because of political reasons not technical. It's a long story but they want to increase their college hiring from 0 (where it was when I graduated) to something respectable for some kind of government program. So now instead of promoting those of us they have hired in the last 3-5 years they bringing in interns for the summer to get them some experience then hiring them full time in the fall. It has killed moral around here and everyone is looking for a new job. We just live in a smaller location so there aren't a lot of job openings. One of the reasons I'm also working on my finances to make myself mobile in the next 6 months or so.

NetworkVeteran wrote: »

In this case, you're taking home the same pay, your cut is less than $6/hr, and you're guaranteed to get the sort of work you desire. It's a win-win solution.

Just to clarify, this job would not guarantee me the sort of work I desire. It would be similar work to what I do now, but hopefully offer the ability to move into the work I want to do but they can't make any guarantees. Which is exactly what my current company told me so makes me worried.

Jackace

Well I approached the company with this proposition and HR, my current supervisor, and the director of Network Engineering all shot it down. I will not be given any chance to work with network engineering and gain any experience. Even the network engineer who offered me some experience has been told that I am no longer allowed to help him. The reasoning is all about company politics. There is nothing I can do about it so I am forced to find another job and hope it is different than my last 2 and they are serious about training and promoting from within. It has been very frustrating trying to break into this industry and get some experience. I'm now working on my third lateral move and still haven't made it into networking.