Question for all those CCIEs-to-be. How do you do it?

Roguetadhg

I have a few questions, that I think I may have realized the gravity of the undertaking I would like to do. Please, entertain my questions. They sound stupid, but after studying for certification, after certification almost non stop... eh. Well, How do you guys do it?

1) There's so much detail. So much to learn. You're digging 1 mile wide and 1 mile deep. Heaven help you if it starts to rain and the water fills in the depth as you try to keep going wider.

How do you maintain the depth. How to you make sure what you know today stays there, in your gray matter?

Simply - How do you retain it all?

2) I hear of CCIEs basicly absorbing all their time into the subject. Labbing for days, Reading for - if you haven't read for over 100 hours, you haven't read - a long time. How do you keep the marathon going? How do you even stay awake, going over the same material, over and over again?

3) How do you find time to do a CCIE study? I've tried to do things like...Reading while driving - Got pulled over. Listening to myself in the car - My voice sounds like a cat on a chalkboard.

4) What have you sacrificed to become a Cisco CCIE?

I ask these questions to hope to pick the brains of the persons who know that studying is more than just a few moments out of the day. It's another job.

shodown

I retain it all by repletion. I read something, lab it, Read again, lab it, and build on it. Over and over and over.


I spend most of the my evenings on mon, wed, Friday, Sat studying. I don't study for multiple hours a night unless I'm in the zone, but the things I have scheduled, I watch videos to start, follow up with reading, and labbing, and talking with other guys/gals going through the same process.


What I have given up? When I 1st got into networking it came really fast. I was a music producer, and I was starting to get a few placements for local artist. I was doing Beat Battles, and even DJing a little bit. I kinda had to give up most of them except some small music making to keep my sanity.

The reality is I was working in lower level NOC type jobs and was able to move up to Senior and lead roles very quickly. If I wanted to I could completely go back to music and only do maintenance on my network career by getting online 1-2 times a week and staying on top of trends, but I would rather be at the top of the field, not just another "IT GUY"

Zartanasaurus

First off, you're more likely to end up in the hospital than with a CCIE if you read and drive at the same time.
Petr Lapukhov has a training method listed here on how to properly study and retain information. Long story short, scheduled repetitions, just like if you've ever used Mnemosyne flashcards.
How do you retain what a map looks like in a video game or how to defeat a boss? Repetition. How do you retain your work network topology? Repetition.

On time: We all have time for the things we make time for. It's kind of like when people are counseled to lose weight and they make a diary of all the food they eat and they see just how much they are snacking. Well make a list of all the things you do during the day and see where you could trade that for study time. How many hours a day do you spend snacking when you could be studying?? Watch TV for an hour before bed? Read a chapter in a book instead (rhyme unintentional).

And studying doesn't have to be long hours. 2 hours is enough time to get some decent reading or CLI work in. Do that a few times a week and it adds up over time.

It certainly helps that I don't have kids, but there are plenty of people out there with kids who make the time investment in things like CCIE, Master's Degrees etc.

Roguetadhg

Thank you Zartanasaurus, the link you provided me. it's what I was looking for!

There's something to be said about studying all the time, and not remembering any of it. If that was going to happen, I'd rather play a video game, or run some topology siming... I have a router named "Home". Yeah, I lab for fun -_-, i'm hopeless. I tend to have a memory of a goldfish when it comes to new material. Hearing that the faster you learn, the faster you forget - makes sense to me. Because pushing chapter by chapter everyday, I could actually feel like I was forgetting chapter 1 by the time I was reading Chapter 3. For Security+. Yeah, I know it's not CCIE stuff. But it's still learning to me.

Now that I'm actually studying to take the test, I should've realized it was time to take it a notch slower.

The lessons I've learned from this thread should help me for a very long time. So I can't really give you more than 1 rep, but just know you've earned it. And yes, I'm stating that publicly, on a forum

Mrock4

Roguetadhg wrote: »

3) How do you find time to do a CCIE study? I've tried to do things like...Reading while driving - Got pulled over. Listening to myself in the car - My voice sounds like a cat on a chalkboard.

4) What have you sacrificed to become a Cisco CCIE?

Man..I know how you feel. Here's my take...

3- I have a full family..kids, wife, etc. I gave up on studying on lunch, or anything like that. I was trying to study on my lunches (2x a week) but that failed. So now, I study Mon/Wed/Fri for 5 hours in the evenings. Yes, it means sometimes I start studying later because I'm spending time with my family. That means Tues/Thurs are days I'm dragging at work because I'm tired..and subsequently go to bed early on those days. Fridays I start later so I can spend time with the family.

When I'm studying, my family essentially treats it like I'm at work. They come in occasionally (bring my snacks, just to say 'hi', etc)..but overall I don't get hit with doing household chores or anything like that while I'm studying.

4- I've sacrificed family time, and my personal time. I literally spend 40 hours a week between studying for CCIE, and college courses (which I've scaled back due to the CCIE).

One caveat, I won't sacrifice ALL family time. That's why my sessions are somewhat loosely scheduled. For example, tonight, I was going to start studying at 8pm, but started at 9:45pm instead. It means I have to stay up later, but I got more family time.

Just my personal method. I will say once you get in the routine of studying on a certain day or whatever, it makes it a lot easier. People know (not just my family) that Mon/Wed/Fri are my lab days..so that helps me stick to the schedule.

Edit: One final thing....don't give the CCIE too much credit. YES it's hard, and YES it covers a lot of material..and YES a lot of people fail it..but passing is simple. Study..study some more, practice, read, lab, repeat. You'll become an expert as a result of your studies, and the CCIE will be more of a residual effect of becoming an expert.

NetworkVeteran

+1 rep for Zartan from me, too. That's just about what I planned to write. To become a CCIE, one need not lock themselves into a basement nor abandon their family/friends.

An hour a day can work wonders.

(And spaced repetition is a helpful tool for maximizing retention given minimal time.)

BroadcastStorm

They take a bunch of adderal or ritalin pretended they had ADHD j/k :P

vertex

I studied every free chance I had for 8 months. I spent more time labbing than reading.

I passed on the third attempt.

First test I failed config passed tshoot.
Second I failed tshoot passed config.
Third I passed.

I literally waited the minimum amount of time between test retakes and I passed on 8/8.

Now I am bored with all my free time. Feels good!

vertex

Mrock4 wrote: »

Man..I know how you feel. Here's my take...

3- I have a full family..kids, wife, etc. I gave up on studying on lunch, or anything like that. I was trying to study on my lunches (2x a week) but that failed. So now, I study Mon/Wed/Fri for 5 hours in the evenings. Yes, it means sometimes I start studying later because I'm spending time with my family. That means Tues/Thurs are days I'm dragging at work because I'm tired..and subsequently go to bed early on those days. Fridays I start later so I can spend time with the family.

When I'm studying, my family essentially treats it like I'm at work. They come in occasionally (bring my snacks, just to say 'hi', etc)..but overall I don't get hit with doing household chores or anything like that while I'm studying.

4- I've sacrificed family time, and my personal time. I literally spend 40 hours a week between studying for CCIE, and college courses (which I've scaled back due to the CCIE).

One caveat, I won't sacrifice ALL family time. That's why my sessions are somewhat loosely scheduled. For example, tonight, I was going to start studying at 8pm, but started at 9:45pm instead. It means I have to stay up later, but I got more family time.

Just my personal method. I will say once you get in the routine of studying on a certain day or whatever, it makes it a lot easier. People know (not just my family) that Mon/Wed/Fri are my lab days..so that helps me stick to the schedule.

Edit: One final thing....don't give the CCIE too much credit. YES it's hard, and YES it covers a lot of material..and YES a lot of people fail it..but passing is simple. Study..study some more, practice, read, lab, repeat. You'll become an expert as a result of your studies, and the CCIE will be more of a residual effect of becoming an expert.

I would say you are incorrect on giving the exam too much credit. The exam is a pretty unrealistic exam and shouldn't be taken lightly. You really need to know how to configure everything in the course outline.

They touch on just about every topic between the tshoot and the config section.

Tshoot is like solving an outage with a gun to your head, except there are 10 outages and a two hour time limit.

Forsaken_GA

How I do it is simple. It's hard, not alot of people can do it, and I don't like the idea that I can't do something (within reason, I'll never play quarterback in the NFL, and I'm ok with that. But something that's just a brain test? Please, I can do whatever).

After that, my stubborn streak takes over. A friend of mine in the military once told me that some of the best advice he ever received was to get your sleep in whenever you have the opportunity. I do the same with my studying. If I get a quiet hour here and there, I channel it into studying.

Besides that, lots of careful planning. My social life and my study time are planned out and integrated with my work schedule at least a month in advance. A simple look at the calendar tells me what I should be doing at any given time.

It doesn't always run on time or to perfection of course, which is why I build some wiggle room in, and sometimes life happens, just have to be flexible. The bottom line, for me, is that this doesn't happen without a plan. CCIE doesn't happen by accident. It's not only a test of your knowledge, it's a test of dedication, organization, and logistics.

The only thing I've really sacrificed is my gaming. I keep a healthy balance between work, social time, and study time, but I'll admit, sometimes I just want to go blow virtual pixels up.

Mrock4

vertex wrote: »

I would say you are incorrect on giving the exam too much credit. The exam is a pretty unrealistic exam and shouldn't be taken lightly. You really need to know how to configure everything in the course outline.

I never said take it lightly, but at the same time, you could literally spend 5 years studying non-stop for this exam, and never take it because you think it's an impossible exam. Obviously it's not, because thousands have passed, and are still passing on almost a daily basis.

At the end of the day, you can underestimate it (not a good thing), or overestimate it. I would argue overestimating it CAN be just as bad as underestimating it. EEM is on the blueprint, but I'm pretty sure every CCIE that passed does not know 100% of the intricacies of EEM. What I'm saying is..you have to take the test eventually. Study hard, but don't study forever to the point you never sit the lab.

And based on what you said, you knew 100% of the blueprint when you sat the lab. If that's the case, that's cool, but I know more than a couple of CCIE's who would quickly admit they didn't know 100% of everything on the lab (but figured it out with the assistance of the DocCD/CCO).

BTW- just realized you passed 10 days ago. Congrats.

SteveO86

Like Nike - Just do it

I feel the level of detail just comes with the CCIE, I've actually always been a big reader since before the IE so reading is not problem for me. I've actually this exact conversation with one my Jr. Engineers this week. (Got 3 of them trying to finish their NP so I've been tackling exam objectives with them which helps me re-inforce my knowledge since they are not gun shy at asking questions.)

As far as finding time to study I'll be up to 11:30-12 studying reading or labbing then I'll back up by 5:30-6 to get ready for work so I try and fit at least 2 hours a day.

I've spent quite a few weekends and Friday nights studying but I still find time to go out, hit the gym, and to just unwind. I ended up at the Hard Rock last night till 1 to have some fun. I've got a couple of other friends tackling the IE with me so we know what were up against.

Roguetadhg

SteveO, have you thought about studying while at the gym? I was thinking about buying a cheapo tablet and using that while working out. It's a little more difficult to use for the

I've been placed on the elliptical machine until my shin splits go away.

Mrock4

Roguetadhg wrote: »

I've been placed on the elliptical machine until my shin splits go away.

Must be military

I once heard, once you have shin splints, they'll never go away. For me, that has been true. They'll get better for a bit, then as soon as I get back to running, they're back. Tried everything.

Roguetadhg

Nah. I was in the Air Force, though.

The YMCA receptionist put me on the elliptical. She was in the military as an Army TI. I don't argue with that one anymore. She's a good person though, so I don't mind!

It goes down, then it flairs up again- then I go back on the machine. It feels better, go back to running. Rinse and repeat.

Right now, It hurts at times to walk (I tried to run twice as long), so I take Aleve. It's supposed to help. It seems to be. I'm not ruling out the possibility that might be because I was told it's supposed to help, and might be a product of being told it's going to help me.

Mrock4

I know exactly how that goes (hurting to walk)..mine are usually like that. They've gotten better in the last few months since I don't run much, but my knees are a bigger worry. Believe it or not jump roping has helped a lot. For those who don't do it often, it's high impact, but once you're good at it, you only jump an inch or two off the ground (versus 6-12" when you run). Plus, jump roping burns mad calories.

Anyways..didn't want to threadjack. Glad I'm not the only one with stubborn shin splints.

Zartanasaurus

I ran track and x-country in HS and had shin splints even then. Anytime I've tried to take up running since then, they will eventually flare up. Last time I tried was a few years ago, and the pain was so bad after a run I was light-headed and almost threw up. I switched over to jumping rope and not only do I not get shin splits, it seems to have helped with the occasional lower leg pain I'd experience in my shins.

SteveO86

Roguetadhg wrote: »

SteveO, have you thought about studying while at the gym? I was thinking about buying a cheapo tablet and using that while working out. It's a little more difficult to use for the

I've been placed on the elliptical machine until my shin splits go away.

Honestly no. When I study on the weekends (usually at least 8 hours) at the 4 hour mark I'll go to the gym for the break. So the gym is my break to get back in the world, hop in the car drive to the gym, a little chit chat if there are others in the gym.

Besides when I hit the gym I'll run or lift till I can't no more, like studying I put 110% into my workout. Healthy body, healthy mind type thing for me


Of course I'm looking another surgery for my knee coming up here soon, so my workouts have been slacking this last week.

vertex

Mrock4 wrote: »

I never said take it lightly, but at the same time, you could literally spend 5 years studying non-stop for this exam, and never take it because you think it's an impossible exam. Obviously it's not, because thousands have passed, and are still passing on almost a daily basis.

At the end of the day, you can underestimate it (not a good thing), or overestimate it. I would argue overestimating it CAN be just as bad as underestimating it. EEM is on the blueprint, but I'm pretty sure every CCIE that passed does not know 100% of the intricacies of EEM. What I'm saying is..you have to take the test eventually. Study hard, but don't study forever to the point you never sit the lab.

And based on what you said, you knew 100% of the blueprint when you sat the lab. If that's the case, that's cool, but I know more than a couple of CCIE's who would quickly admit they didn't know 100% of everything on the lab (but figured it out with the assistance of the DocCD/CCO).

BTW- just realized you passed 10 days ago. Congrats.

thanks!

The DOCCD is useless at RTP, it literally takes several minutes to get pages loading or it will crash your computer all together.

In every single exam I sat I received an extra 30-45 minutes at the end due to opening the doc cd url and my computer behaving slow/sluggish/unresponsive after.

NOC-Ninja

Roguetadhg wrote: »

I have a few questions, that I think I may have realized the gravity of the undertaking I would like to do. Please, entertain my questions. They sound stupid, but after studying for certification, after certification almost non stop... eh. Well, How do you guys do it?

1) There's so much detail. So much to learn. You're digging 1 mile wide and 1 mile deep. Heaven help you if it starts to rain and the water fills in the depth as you try to keep going wider.

How do you maintain the depth. How to you make sure what you know today stays there, in your gray matter?

Simply - How do you retain it all?

2) I hear of CCIEs basicly absorbing all their time into the subject. Labbing for days, Reading for - if you haven't read for over 100 hours, you haven't read - a long time. How do you keep the marathon going? How do you even stay awake, going over the same material, over and over again?

3) How do you find time to do a CCIE study? I've tried to do things like...Reading while driving - Got pulled over. Listening to myself in the car - My voice sounds like a cat on a chalkboard.

4) What have you sacrificed to become a Cisco CCIE?

I ask these questions to hope to pick the brains of the persons who know that studying is more than just a few moments out of the day. It's another job.

Read, make notes, lab, repetition.

Make a plan and follow it.

I sacrifice a lot of my social life. Usually 5hrs on sat , 8 hrs on sun, mon to thurs 2-4hrs at home and 1-2hr at work if i have down time. This plan doesn't always work since life catches up on me. Also, i workout to help my body. I understand that sacrificing my health doesn't work for me.

Again, social life, vacation time, some birthday party, and money. I have been studying lab for a year now.

Roguetadhg

So you're labbing prior to taking the written test? I assume that's the way to get a head-jump on the time-limit after the written exam?

NOC-Ninja

Roguetadhg wrote: »

So you're labbing prior to taking the written test? I assume that's the way to get a head-jump on the time-limit after the written exam?

You can start labbing whenever you want. Some lab before and some lab after the written test.
I lab through GNS3 while studying for the written test because I can I understand it better that way. However, I have a full lab at home now. I like it better than GNS3.

NetworkVeteran

The CCIE written exam is not particularly intimidating. Many of my colleagues (and I) would rate passing it as easier than completing the CCNP or CCIP track. To me, it's an afterthought, so the timing is primarily a symbolic choice as to when to begin the lab countdown.

SteveO86

When I start tackling a new topic, I'll first read about it. (Any books, DocCD, RFC's, etc), then lab it (configure, debug, explain configurations option), and also depending on the topic I'll check it out from the packet level. Probably over kill but I'm cool with that, it does take a bit more time.

So labbing is not limited to prepping for the actual CCIE Lab. If I have a new project at work I'm 100% sure about I'll build it from the ground up to prep for that project.

Forsaken_GA

NetworkVeteran wrote: »

The CCIE written exam is not particularly intimidating. Many of my colleagues (and I) would rate passing it as easier than completing the CCNP or CCIP track. To me, it's an afterthought, so the timing is primarily a symbolic choice as to when to begin the lab countdown.

Yup. I'd say it's basically the equivalent of taking a CCNP-CCIP Composite. It's why I can't stand it when my co-workers fawn over the fact that I've passed the Written, I keep telling them it's a freaking easy exam and not praiseworthy.

jamesp1983

My strategy is to not think about how difficult and long the journey will be and to just keep pushing myself without forgetting my goal. I use spaced repetition and lab as much as I possibly can. I've read the CCIE reading list (and continue to refresh myself on material from these books from time to time) and have watched a ton of videos from INE and on youtube. This journey has been extremely helpful in helping me grow as an engineer and advancing my career. I have sacrificed a great deal of relaxation time (tv, gaming, going out, reading non-tech books, etc) and time with my wife, but I still make sure to take her out to dinner or movies whenever possible. She just wrapped up her schooling so that was helpful with keeping her distracted as well. I try to average at least 4 hours of studies a day every day. I am deeply interested in the material so it makes this process enjoyable for me. You should try to keep yourself healthy though by eating right and exercising as much as possible.