How do you guys feel about recruiters?

dpjackal89

Hello. I recently began actively searching for a job and a good number of recruiters have been contacting me. How do you guys feel about recruiters and has anyone ever dealt with Abacus Group in NYC?

Bokeh

Recruiters only work for one person - themselves. As a former recruiter, I was out to find as many people as possible for my openings. Only work with recruiters that are NO FEE to YOU. If its temp, or temp to perm and they quote you XX dollars, they are usually charging the employer XX x 1.5 or 2, to cover their overhead.

LinuxRacr

The permanent position I just started was obtained through a recruiting agency. I was reluctant at first, until I did my homework about the agency, and the company they were recruiting for, and found both to be reputable. Always do extensive research. Glassdoor.com is a good place to start. Bokeh is right. If they charge you fee, then steer clear. The agency that contacted me for the position did so at no charge to me, and has several offices around the U.S.

NetworkVeteran

Recruiters are one way to find jobs. I would utilize them, when convenient.

Bokeh wrote:

Recruiters only work for one person - themselves.

A recruiter wants to make a money--just like you, your employer, you favorite restaurant, or your Internet service provider. As long as you remember that you'll be fine.

They can be good people, and give good counsel.

As a former recruiter, I was out to find as many people as possible for my openings.

The kind I deal with more regularly screens candidates and only selects one, or rarely two per position; they then actively promote that candidate. The average employer in my area has no trouble finding warm bodies to apply; the dilemma is finding good ones.

The agency that contacted me for the position did so at no charge to me

Run if they suggest that you pay them or another service.

jmritenour

3rd party recruiters, I'd rather not deal with. Every time I have, it has been a giant waste of my time. They're either trying to shoehorn me into a role that I'm either overqualified for, or is outside of my skillset, or the company doing the hiring doesn't want to deal with them.

That said, when I do get a cold call or LinkedIn contact request, I do at least hear them out, in the hopes that eventually, one of them will lead to something - even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while, right? And at worst case, I'm out 10-15 minutes of my time in talking to them.

Mrock4

I have personally been burned by a recruiter (long story), but I've also had pleasant encounters with them as well.

At the end of the day, I avoid them if possible, because I'd rather deal directly with a company, but I have gained a great opportunity through a recruiter before..so I wouldn't necessarily rule out working with them.

networker050184

My thoughts are exactly what Mrock4 stated. Avoid them and work directly with the company if possible, but don't pass up an opportunity just because they are using a recruiter.

I'd definitely avoid working through a recruiting agency as a contractor at all costs though.

tprice5

Legitimate recruiters working for reputable company's are not cheap. Typically a company will pay between 8k-12k for successfully placing a candidate. The now employer of that candidate may require the candidate to work for a year for ROI. At my company, leaving before the 1 year requires paying the company back for your hire, prorated of course. I came on as a direct hire, no recruiter. You think they could've thrown me a bone or something

RouteThisWay

I was always skeptical too. But I got a call from a head hunter about a position that was hard to pass on so I figured why not.

Glad I did. Turns out, this company has policy to solely use 3rd party recruiting firms to bring people for Contract-To-Hire. Every single person here on the IT staff had to go through that process through various recruiting agencies. I found out how much the company is paying the recruiter that placed me- it is quite a bit more than I am being paid (I'm just at 32/hr, they are paying close to 60). But, you also need to consider how much it will cost you as an employee to pay for holidays, vacation, unemployment insurance, medical insurance, 401k matching, etc. In the end, they are probably paying a bit more than if they had my as salary to start with- but the recruiters are out to make money too. It is called a business, yes?

Thats why I don't get the whole "My recruiting company is paying me $10/hr but charging $20.. so if the company hires me, I am going to demand $20 an hour too!'. If you are being paid $10/hr, it costs the company more than just $10/hr to keep you on full time + benefits.

pumbaa_g

There is an old saying about trying to put a round peg in a square hole which sums it up nicely

junalo

Working & living in NYC, I've had good experiences with recruiters. Currently, I am working for a staffing agency at a prominent investment banking company as a consultant, but I am also looking for a permanent position. I've gotten unsolicited calls from recruiters telling me that they have a position for me, etc. and they want me to come in and speak with them and I never get to hear back from them after...LOL..and I don't care to follow-up either, since probably they are looking to fill their database or whatever it is that they do. But when I do apply for a position that is listed by a recruiter that matches my experience and I get a call from them, then I usually do get an interview with the employer. My advice to you is to follow all leads, no matter what. If you are unemployed, then your job is to get a job and just put yourself out there and sooner rather than later you will receive an offer. Good luck!!

bigdogz

Sometimes just doing the research just isn't enough. I have had both good and bad experiences. My second experience working with one wasn't bad but it gave me a true feelings about some of these folks. The guy was just indifferent about and would only come by to pickup my time sheets. I gave him the nickname of "pimp" and it has stuck with him. I use the term when making a reference to a recruiter in front of co workers because they understand the process.

I also have had some great experiences with some recruiters and I have kept in touch with them over the years. They would buy lunch on occasion and would look for extra work for me on the evenings and weekends. One year I had 6 W-2 forms.

dave330i

Never had any issues with recruiters I've worked with. Honestly I don't understand why so many believe working direct is so much better than being a contractor.

erpadmin

Ok, I've been trying to write this post for a good while, but I then got a email by a 3rd party recruiter, so I wanted to wait until I ended that conversation with her. Here's pretty much what happened:

Recruiter calls me and we exchange pleasantries for a couple of minutes. After that she gets into my background and sends me a generic job spec. She admits (and I agree and would have called her out on it) that it is all over the place. Tells me that client will train me on things I don't know, blah blah blah. She then asks what salary I'm looking for and that invokes rule #1 in my rules of engagement with 3rd party recruiters.

I NEVER under any circumstances tell 3rd party what my salary is, or what I'm making first. I tell them that I want to hear their range first. Most of the time, they comply. When they don't I have no problem telling them to have a nice day. The most important asset you, yourself will have is time. You don't want to waste your time if you are looking for a $60k gig, and they say the gig is $40k with a max of $50k. When this particular recruiter told me that the low was $70k, I told her I don't think this is going to work out. I told her flat out I won't get out of bed for that much. I then told her what I made and told her my salary is in the 90s. She then insulted me by saying what if I could get the client to bump it out to a $1k more...(yes, that's one thousand.....) I answered the question this way. "So...you want me to hand in my resignation to go to another job a $1k jump?" When she realized how stupid that sounded, she basically apologized.

Morale of the story: always stay in the driver's seat when dealing with 3rd parties. Every job I ever had was done without a 3rd party. This lady was also trying to sell me on the temp-to-perm/contract-to-perm and I told her flat out that won't even get me out of bed either. I don't have to play those games because I'm in a comfortable position. For me, it never made sense to; every job I've had I had a 90 day probie period....why would I give myself a longer probie-period then necessary?!

For every "dream job" I've ever turned down, there are ten dream jobs that would hire me on my terms...that's the way I've looked at it, and so far, it has served me well...and I'm in the metro-NYC area. (I'm willing to relocate to better weather...but I'm just casually looking right now....I don't have a gun to my head to leave my current position.)

NetworkVeteran

dave330i wrote: »

Never had any issues with recruiters I've worked with. Honestly I don't understand why so many believe working direct is so much better than being a contractor.

For one, at least some major companies have salary caps for contracting positions that are lower than for direct hires. For two, at most companies direct hires get more in terms of benefits (medical, childcare, training, etc.) For three, if I'm laid off as a contractor I'm simply out-of-work; if I'm laid off as a direct hire I'm looking at a 6-24mo package where the company is continuing to pay me. For four, contractors are often laid off first. That would more or less sum up why the only positions I seriously considered in my last job hunt were direct-hire positions.

erpadmin

dave330i wrote: »

Honestly I don't understand why so many believe working direct is so much better than being a contractor.

Personal preference...it's like dating. Some people want a friends with benefits situation (contractor.) Others like being in a monogamous relationship for awhile ("working direct.") Sometimes things don't work out, so you move on to someone/something else.

Vik210

lol.. Well explained erpadmin..

NetworkVeteran

Erp, often it's not so much a matter of personal preference as necessity. In my area, as a rule contract-to-hire jobs are easier to obtain, but pay significantly less.

(There are obviously many exceptions.)

glenn_33

I used one, given i've known them for years...but I landed an awesome job with great pay and benefits

zrockstar

I just spoke with one from Tek Systems for the first time a couple days ago. Overall I was pretty impressed and would not hesitate to use them in the future. He did tell me about a job that wasn't quite what I was looking for, it seemed like there was a pretty good incentive for him to fill it, but I told him that wasn't what I was looking for and he understood and was fine with it. At this point in my life I am the "tire kicker" of IT jobs, but he didn't mind working with me even though I am realistically still a half a year out from really getting aggressive about finding a job. I assume that like anything, there are good ones and bad ones.

erpadmin

@NetworkVeteran, I don't know where your area is, but in the metro-NYC area, there are plenty of direct-to-hire, and contract-to-hire to go around. I also think that it is dependent on the type of job/level of experience of the candidate/the candidate him/herself. Some facets of IT (for example, networking) can get away with contract-to-hire because they're trying to attract folks from Help Desk/Desktop Support who value the experience of a networking gig. For those who are more established in their career, they really can pick and choose, and it really does go toward a matter of personal preference. To elaborate on my tounge-in-cheek comment, some people don't want committment and would prefer to work on a contract basis. Others, like me, want the stability of benefits and "a home" and don't want to travel regionally/internationally.

It just depends on what you want to do in your career, regardless of where your market is.

networker050184

NetworkVeteran wrote: »

For one, at least some major companies have salary caps for contracting positions that are lower than for direct hires. For two, at most companies direct hires get more in terms of benefits (medical, childcare, training, etc.) For three, if I'm laid off as a contractor I'm simply out-of-work; if I'm laid off as a direct hire I'm looking at a 6-24mo package where the company is continuing to pay me. For four, contractors are often laid off first. That would more or less sum up why the only positions I seriously considered in my last job hunt were direct-hire positions.

Perfectly put. I wouldn't go contract unless I really needed to or there was an extremely exciting contract I wanted to be a port of.

dave330i

NetworkVeteran wrote: »

For one, at least some major companies have salary caps for contracting positions that are lower than for direct hires. For two, at most companies direct hires get more in terms of benefits (medical, childcare, training, etc.) For three, if I'm laid off as a contractor I'm simply out-of-work; if I'm laid off as a direct hire I'm looking at a 6-24mo package where the company is continuing to pay me. For four, contractors are often laid off first. That would more or less sum up why the only positions I seriously considered in my last job hunt were direct-hire positions.

Sounds like we have very different experience. From my experience contractors typically get paid 20% more than direct. They do get worse benefits vs. direct, but more pay offsets it. The best severance package I've seen was 1 month. If a company offers 6-24 months of severance, that is a compelling reason to go direct.

The fastest way to increase your salary is usually switching companies. As a contractor, switching jobs regularly is expected, while a direct employee doing the same raises questions.

RouteThisWay

dave330i wrote: »

Sounds like we have very different experience. From my experience contractors typically get paid 20% more than direct. They do get worse benefits vs. direct, but more pay offsets it. The best severance package I've seen was 1 month. If a company offers 6-24 months of severance, that is a compelling reason to go direct.

The fastest way to increase your salary is usually switching companies. As a contractor, switching jobs regularly is expected, while a direct employee doing the same raises questions.

I've had the same experience in my area. In fact, the contract company I am going through now offers medical, vacation, pto, 401k, etc. But for the most part, contractors are paid more than direct hire here. But, in my area- most contracts are contract-to-hire. It is very common practice for 3-6month contract-to-hire. That just seems to be the standard practice in my area.

networker050184

dave330i wrote: »

Sounds like we have very different experience. From my experience contractors typically get paid 20% more than direct. They do get worse benefits vs. direct, but more pay offsets it. The best severance package I've seen was 1 month. If a company offers 6-24 months of severance, that is a compelling reason to go direct.

The fastest way to increase your salary is usually switching companies. As a contractor, switching jobs regularly is expected, while a direct employee doing the same raises questions.

No company I have worked for has given contractors a better all around compensation package than their direct employees. Maybe the dollar figure comes out higher, but paid time off, health benefits, retirement etc make it a no brainer to go direct for me. Maybe if I didn't have kids and was looking to hop around the country for a bit, but for someone looking for a stable career contracting just isn't the way to go IMO.

jibbajabba

In the UK it is almost impossible to get a proper job directly. Only way (in big companies) is either through referral or recruitment agencies.

shodown

If you are going through a contracting company it all depends on what your life is like.

- Are they allowing W2 or 1099/c2c option. This makes a huge difference in what you can write off.
- Does your wife/husband/partner currently have a health plan you can use?
- Are you able to cut the middle man(contracting agency) out after some time?
- Life insurance, disability and so on
- Time off policy.
- Training


You have to factor all of these things in when you look at contracting. One one hand its just a way for companies to get around paying benefits, discrimination laws, and several other factors. If you know how to work it you can make out like a bandit. I'm not at the point of making out like a bandit yet, but as I'm learning the game you can seriously pimp it to your favor
-

LinuxRacr

erpadmin wrote: »

I NEVER under any circumstances tell 3rd party what my salary is, or what I'm making first. I tell them that I want to hear their range first. Most of the time, they comply. When they don't I have no problem telling them to have a nice day. The most important asset you, yourself will have is time. You don't want to waste your time if you are looking for a $60k gig, and they say the gig is $40k with a max of $50k. When this particular recruiter told me that the low was $70k, I told her I don't think this is going to work out. I told her flat out I won't get out of bed for that much. I then told her what I made and told her my salary is in the 90s. She then insulted me by saying what if I could get the client to bump it out to a $1k more...(yes, that's one thousand.....) I answered the question this way. "So...you want me to hand in my resignation to go to another job a $1k jump?" When she realized how stupid that sounded, she basically apologized.

Morale of the story: always stay in the driver's seat when dealing with 3rd parties. Every job I ever had was done without a 3rd party. This lady was also trying to sell me on the temp-to-perm/contract-to-perm and I told her flat out that won't even get me out of bed either. I don't have to play those games because I'm in a comfortable position. For me, it never made sense to; every job I've had I had a 90 day probie period....why would I give myself a longer probie-period then necessary?!

ERP, I used this exact principle when the recruiter asked me how much I currently made. When asked the question, I told her this: "How about we talk about what the client is willing to pay? My current salary isn't an important factor in this discussion." I ended up with a 24% base salary increase.
I always stayed in direct contact with the agency to make sure things kept moving.
Your prior advice has payed dividends.