Would pursuing a second associate degree be worth it?

BobbyDC

Next semester I'll be finishing my degree, Computer Information Systems: Networking. I'm also very close to obtaining the CIS: Programming option, like 3 classes. Would it be wise to get both or would employers not really care since they are so close to each other?
I'm in a bad spot for IT. I search indeed.com, monster, dice, careerbuilder, and more for jobs and they all want BA and beyond. Even for a lvl 1 help desk they want a BA.
My wife and I are ready to move when I finish. With that I'm trying to open as many doors as possible. I'll have my degree(s), I currently hold the CCENT and I'm working toward the CCNA. I'm also playing with programming whenever I can outside of my classes. I can honestly see myself doing either programming or networking in the future.
So should I get the programming degree or just focus on the CCNA and pick up as much programming as I can on the way? Other ideas?

ptilsen

No. Pursuing the first one wasn't worth it. Bachelor's and master's degrees are what you want.

If you want to get a job now, focus on certs. That being said, don't let "requirements" stop you from applying for jobs you can do. I've been interviewed for all sorts of jobs that "required" a bachelor's degree over the last few years. Judge whether to apply for the job based on the description, not the "requirements". Requirements are still a good gauge for what you should pursue -- just not what you actually need to have right now.

BobbyDC

After I get my associates I'm going to work with WGU for my Bachelors.

I might just skip the 3 classes and spend the time working toward Sec+ and CCNA.

ptilsen

That's a great plan. The associates should transfer pretty well. Between that and a CCNA, you will probably start more than half-way done.

I would still advise you apply for jobs you think you can do once you have that CCNA. Nothing is more valuable than that experience.

BobbyDC

I agree. I have applied to a few jobs and I actually had one phone interview with a NOC that's about 2 hours from me. Even they wanted much more experience than I have. It was a lvl 1 help desk position.

boredgamelad

ptilsen wrote: »

No. Pursuing the first one wasn't worth it.

Wow. I agree that going for a second Associates degree isn't worth it, but this is a pretty insulting thing to say.

BobbyDC

lol, its fine. I haven't paid anything out of pocket for this degree. I lost my job when the automotive industry took a hit. My job went overseas so I qualified for a program that paid me unemployment and all of my classes.

They also paid for the CCENT test. I'm trying to get them to pay for my CCNA.

ptilsen

boredgamelad wrote: »

Wow. I agree that going for a second Associates degree isn't worth it, but this is a pretty insulting thing to say.

I'm not trying to be insulting; just helpful. This is not the first time I've said this on this site, and I can't imagine it will be the last. I have an associate's degree, and I can tell you without a doubt that it wasn't even worth the time I spent on it, and certainly not the money. Taking the credits to WGU definitely makes it worthwhile (in fact, it's really smart) in this case, so OP is just fine for where he is. However, pursuing an associate's for itself is not worth it in this field (or in many fields, for that matter). Employers are looking for experienced professionals, not inexperienced professionals with associate's degrees. They'll often give bachelor's degree-holders a chance, but rarely associate's.

boredgamelad

I'm sorry yours didn't work out. Obtaining mine was the biggest accomplishment of my adult life, and a major milestone for me not only in the way it has helped my career but also the role it has played in developing my self-esteem and realizing my self-worth. That might sound silly to someone who considers theirs worthless, but the value of one's education can't be measured solely in dollars and cents (though it is worth noting that my AA has paid for itself several times over). I'm not calling an Associates the be-all, end-all solution (I am pursuing my BS after all), but to say it's worthless? That's insulting, whether you mean it to be or not.

MiikeB

boredgamelad wrote: »

I'm sorry yours didn't work out. Obtaining mine was the biggest accomplishment of my adult life, and a major milestone for me not only in the way it has helped my career but also the role it has played in developing my self-esteem and realizing my self-worth. That might sound silly to someone who considers theirs worthless, but the value of one's education can't be measured solely in dollars and cents (though it is worth noting that my AA has paid for itself several times over). I'm not calling an Associates the be-all, end-all solution (I am pursuing my BS after all), but to say it's worthless? That's insulting, whether you mean it to be or not.

I don't think anyone said an associates is worthless, he just said it isn't worthwhile.

Worthwhile implies value, which can be measured in dollars and cents. Dollar for dollar and minute for minute certifications are more worthwhile than an associates degree. CCNA and Security+, which could be obtained in 6-7 months of self study easily and cost you $500 or less including study materials, probably holds almost twice the value of an associates degree.

On another note, if you consider an associates degree an accomplishment then more power to you, but on a personal level I cannot set my bar that low. I know what I am capable of and I expect nothing less of myself, to me that means I did not even consider my bachelors to be a large accomplishment because I know it was well within my capabilities.

Krones

I earned my Associates this past May, I too felt that it was a great experience and definitely do not regret it. Has it led to some crazy new job in IT? Hardly, I'd be surprised if I could get hired at Geek Squad with an Associate of Arts. However, I learned a great deal, found some new interests, met some great people, and actually found a job with the school which may have not been likely in a bigger university system; however, it is not the end-all answer to an education that sadly some posters here are negatively assuming it to be. I earned my Associates knowing that it would be a stepping-stone. It cleared all of the general education requirements for WGU. Not all of us are fortunate to attend state colleges with decent computer science or information technology programs or even know about the online alternatives.

If I had to choose between certifications or a second Associate's Degree. I would not earn a second Associates unless you wanted to kill time and for giggles. Instead, I would start studying for certifications and knock out as many as you can in your first month with WGU. Let them cover the certification costs. With a 6 month head-start, you should be able to easily study for at least 2-3 certifications with your determination. Also, be sure to complete and focus the financial-aid process immediately. It can take over a month before verification is finalized.

GPIT

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on the perceived value of what something is worth. But telling the OP his first associates wasn't worth it is insulting. Now if he feels that his own associates isn't worth anything that's fine, it may have done nothing for him, his career, or his feeling of accomplishment. But I assure you, there can be true value found in achieving an associates degree. Whether it's set as a goal to be met or as a stepping stone to a higher degree, there can be value found in that. So yes, value can be measured in something other than dollars and cents; it can also be found in what one deems as important to them self.

MiikeB

It seems very clear that this thread was created to discuss the value of getting a second associates in the context of employment opportunities. In that regard the context the statement that his first associates was not worthwhile is correct.

An Associates degree can provide value in other contexts such as self-worth, self-esteem, personal achievement, the desire to learn etc but this thread was not created to discuss any of them. It was created to discuss the value of an associates in the job market, which is little to none and certainly not worth 2 years and thousands in tuition when compared to the other available options.

Chris:/*

It depends on which market you are in and the associated job. For the world of the cleared it does make a difference.

blargoe

An associate's degree has a different meaning depending on your local conditions, but I would assert that having it is to be in a much better position than having nothing. I see associates with experience get hired quite a bit... getting the experience might be a little harder

I always recommend looking into the local community colleges and seeing about the transferability of course credits and the costs, because it is often the cheapest way to get that BS degree from a B&M.

eansdad

I wouldn't say taking 3 classes and obtaining a 2nd associates is worthless. I'd do it since it is only 3 classes. I wouldn't put going for a BS on hold to do it though. Things that a 2nd AS would do is create a talking point with recruiters/HR people. Remember with all other things being equal (exp and certs) 2 is better then 1 or none. You will never go wrong with learning....

Best bet go for the BS and certs, the 2nd AS is something to do if you want it.

tpatt100

Saying an associates degree is not worth it because it did not work for you is totally anecdotal. If you went somewhere and got the associates from an accredited school and it will transfer it is worth way more than 60 credits towards a bachelors that "you are working on". What I mean by "working on" is the old "Bachelors in Awesomeness - In Progress" and your potential employer asks you when was the last time you took a class and you sheepishly admit the year (was when Bill Clinton was in office). Yes, that was me a while back.

I was going to get a Bachelors but due to having to work full time and going to a traditional state university I "took a break" due to mental exhaustion. It wasn't like I had it much later on with online classes, I was going to USC in South Carolina and working at night at Applebees (awesome...)

I had over 60 credits, no degree but 60 some credits. So all I had to put on my resume was "pursuing a Bachelors".

I tell almost everyone I know that starts school in IT if there is an associates that directly crosses over to a Bachelors to get the Associates first. Heck even if you lose a few classes in the process due to changing schools later it is worth it. I am talking traditional B&M schools though. Majority of the community colleges I have seen work on transfer programs with several of the state universities.

Primary reason I suggest associates first is due to life changing events. I lost count of the number of people I know that something major happened and "took a break" either financial hardship due to job loss or whatever.

So if something happens and you have to stop at least you have an associates degree and can still pursue self education via other means until you can return to college.

The associate degree programs in my area are excellent and in my opinion better suited for the world of IT due to the concentration of classes "that matter".

ptilsen

Krones wrote: »

I earned my Associates this past May, I too felt that it was a great experience and definitely do not regret it. Has it led to some crazy new job in IT? Hardly, I'd be surprised if I could get hired at Geek Squad with an Associate of Arts. However, I learned a great deal, found some new interests, met some great people, and actually found a job with the school which may have not been likely in a bigger university system; however, it is not the end-all answer to an education that sadly some posters here are negatively assuming it to be.

An AA is fine if you can transfer the credits to a four-year program. As MiikeB pointed out, my statement was made in the context of employment. As you yourself admit, an AA will not yield many, if any IT career options in the private sector. I will maintain that that is largely true of an AS or AAS as well.

I will however clarify that my statement was made in terms of employment, not in terms of value in other areas. Particularly, an associate's degree that can be transferred into a four-year program is generally extremely valuable, if only because the credits are cheaper. Obviously any value you find in it yourself is great, and nothing can deny that. But this thread is in the "IT Jobs / Degrees" forum and value, as a necessity, needs to be discussed in that context.

blargoe wrote: »

An associate's degree has a different meaning depending on your local conditions, but I would assert that having it is to be in a much better position than having nothing.

I would disagree with that assertion, strongly. It is, in my opinion, slightly better than having nothing. I can't imagine an associate's will be the difference in getting or not getting a job or interview even 0.1% of the time. A certification like CCNA and the skills that should go with it absolutely can get a job. Entry level jobs in this field go to people who are highly educated and thus have proved themselves trainable or to people who already have the skills to do the job. They don't go to people who are partially educated and don't have the skills. Hence, OPs difficulties.

eansdad wrote: »

I wouldn't say taking 3 classes and obtaining a 2nd associates is worthless. I'd do it since it is only 3 classes. I wouldn't put going for a BS on hold to do it though.

I can't imagine this would be a positive talking point, by any means. I agree that it's not worth holding off on a BS over -- unless those three classes transfer perfectly into OP's BS program of choice, I don't see any employment opportunities being ultimately gained from the experience.

tpatt100 wrote: »

Saying an associates degree is not worth it because it did not work for you is totally anecdotal. If you went somewhere and got the associates from an accredited school and it will transfer it is worth way more than 60 credits towards a bachelors that "you are working on".

While I provided myself as an anecdote, I wouldn't say my position is entirely anecdotal. On the anecdotal side, I've worked with hiring managers, as a hiring managers, looked at hundreds of job postings and applied to a couple dozen of them over the last few years. No one I've ever talked to who was actually involved in the hiring process for IT jobs put any value on associate's degrees, anecdotally speaking. On the more statistical side, of those hundreds job postings, I can count on one hand the number that indicated an associate's degree was "preferred", "required", or even "a plus". With few exceptions, employers are looking for a bachelor's degree or not really looking for a degree. Yes, you can say you are "working on" a bachelor's degree, but again (as I'll elaborate on later), even that is only worth the effort if those credits are truly going to transfer into a bachelor's program.

tpatt100 wrote: »

I tell almost everyone I know that starts school in IT if there is an associate's that directly crosses over to a Bachelors to get the Associates first.

I agree with this completely -- if the associate's program in question transfers 100% (or, say, 95%) of its credits into a bachelor's degree, that is absolutely great advice. However, that is usually not the case, from what I've looked at. First, OP finished an AS or an AAS, not an AA, so he will probably still have to do some extra generals in a typical BS program (that being said, WGU would take 80% of his credits or more). He's not totally screwed or anything (especially since it was free), but some of his credits are probably not going to transfer as something he can use. And in general, when I see people on this site, they have or are considering an AS or an AAS, not an AA. While an AA is even less useful in terms of employment, the credits generally transfer much better. Second, even when whatever associates does transfer 100%, it doesn't necessarily mean you're half-way to a BS. With CS/EE in particular, it almost never means you're half-way there. Why? First, because most reputable four-year degrees require upper division general classes that usually aren't even available at CCs. Second, because there will be other prerequisites (math, for CS/EE specifically) to even begin the major. This is the dirty little secret of many state university systems. I can tell you it's true consistently in the Midwest, at the very least. There are lots of CC and state tech school programs that they guarantee transfer to a four-year program, but most of the time you'll end up needing more than 60 credits for these reasons (upper division courses and major pre-requisites). So transferring an AA for a BA in a liberal arts or even some soft sciences might work, but it will generally leave you 12-20 credits short of a BS in CS, EE, CIS, or even MIS.

So while I agree that an AA or even an AS as a first step can be a smart move, I think people need to research their options thoroughly before undertaking an associate's program. They can transfer well, and there can be educational or fulfillment value in them, but when it comes to what this thread is about -- employment in IT positions -- I maintain the view that (again, when they aren't stepping stones towards the real goal of a BS) associate's degrees are not even worth the time they take. Pursuit of a bachelor's degree or certifications or (preferably) both are better uses of time.

Mahri7

ptilsen wrote: »

No. Pursuing the first one wasn't worth it. Bachelor's and master's degrees are what you want.

If you want to get a job now, focus on certs. That being said, don't let "requirements" stop you from applying for jobs you can do. I've been interviewed for all sorts of jobs that "required" a bachelor's degree over the last few years. Judge whether to apply for the job based on the description, not the "requirements". Requirements are still a good gauge for what you should pursue -- just not what you actually need to have right now.

Couldn't agree more. After 13 years I have noticed it really depends on the employer. Some will hire you with equivalent experience, some will take certs over degree and some will not budge on their requirement of a degree. Always apply anyway and then knock their socks off in an interview you never know what will happen! I took a job a few years back with a requirement of a bachelors and at the time only had my A+ but they hired me over the BA candidate because I had more experience in higher positions and they would rather have that than the fresh out of school BA holder. So it all depends on what they are willing to give on and who else has applied for that job.