Networking Jobs at ISPs

Jackace

So I might have a chance to land a job with a small regional ISP in the area. My questions to all of you is what is life like working for an ISP. They have both a TDM/SONET network and an MPLS IP network. I would be tier 2-3 support so not front lines, but not design or high level support either. From talking with my would be manager it sounds like I would get experience with a lot of different networking technologies and it sounds like a great place to build a solid base of experience in networking. From those that have worked for ISPs what generally can I expect?

Update - I got the job and will be putting in my two week notice today. I'm pretty excited about the opportunity and it should give me a real jump start in networking.

lantech

Congrats on the opportunity. I hope you get it.

I am currently looking at two jobs right now myself. One in the NOC for a major corporation basically supporting everything and I have a phone interview with an ISP for a level 2 NOC tech on Tuesday. So this will be an interesting thread for me as well.

networker050184

Are you going to be doing customer support or network support? If user is it business or residential? What you do will depend a lot on these factors.

bigdogz

Jackace,

You will work with different technologies and may move up in the ranks by performing additional tasks.
I know I have learned quite a bit. It is a faster pace and a little demanding at times and you may have to work after hours.
TDM and SONET are older technologies but getting your foot in the door and an understanding of various technologies will assist you in obtaining a well rounded resume.

drkat

I think an ISP NOC is a great way to gain experience. The experience gained in the NOC makes working on a single LAN/WAN very stress free... The NOC also gets you exposed to other areas too depending on what the ISP does.

shodown

drkat wrote: »

I think an ISP NOC is a great way to gain experience. The experience gained in the NOC makes working on a single LAN/WAN very stress free... The NOC also gets you exposed to other areas too depending on what the ISP does.

Depends on your NOC and enterprise.

When I worked for a ISP we had about 500 companies on it, and the largest had 47 sites, so not large by ISP means, but not small either. When I worked for a enterprise in the IC community we had a way larger network, that covered the globe with our own MPLS cloud with 4 different domains riding the wan, that was way more stressful when thing went wrong.

Jackace

networker050184 wrote: »

Are you going to be doing customer support or network support? If user is it business or residential? What you do will depend a lot on these factors.

It will be network support. It is all business class internet.

networker050184

Thats the best kind! You should get plenty of good experience in a role like that. Expect to learn new things everyday and get your hands dirty on all kinds of equipment.

Jackace

networker050184 wrote: »

Thats the best kind! You should get plenty of good experience in a role like that. Expect to learn new things everyday and get your hands dirty on all kinds of equipment.

I have only had a phone interview at this point and he asked me a bunch of technical questions about SONET, IP Networks, MPLS, etc. I answered about half of the questions right, but he said if I answered them all correct I would be overqualified for the job. I'm hoping it works out because it sounds like I would get a lot of solid experience in networking.

Roguetadhg

It sounded like he didn't want you to know all the answers?

networker050184

Definitely sounds like the career spring board you've been looking for. Good luck!

Jackace

Roguetadhg wrote: »

It sounded like he didn't want you to know all the answers?

He told me he didn't expect anyone to know all the answers.

vinbuck

Unless you've worked for an SP for years, you won't know the answers to most of it. Probably more than 50% of the stuff I work on daily at an SP has either never been mentioned in mainstream Cisco training materials or it has a footnote.

I'm actually about to make the jump from a Service Provider back into the Enterprise for a huge payraise, but work for an SP for 3-5 years and you can write your own ticket. SP Engineers are a hot commodity because they understand large complex networks and how to toubleshoot them - always a killer combo!

Jackace

vinbuck wrote: »

Unless you've worked for an SP for years, you won't know the answers to most of it. Probably more than 50% of the stuff I work on daily at an SP has either never been mentioned in mainstream Cisco training materials or it has a footnote.

I'm actually about to make the jump from a Service Provider back into the Enterprise for a huge payraise, but work for an SP for 3-5 years and you can write your own ticket. SP Engineers are a hot commodity because they understand large complex networks and how to toubleshoot them - always a killer combo!

This is what the guy told me as well. He said unless you have worked for an ISP you just won't know all the questions. I am also hoping that 3-5 years experience with an ISP will allow me to move up the ranks pretty quickly.

mapletune

Sounds like a good opportunity best of luck to you!


as for me... no idea what i want to specialize in ... @_@ oh well... we shall see~

shodown

Jackace wrote: »

This is what the guy told me as well. He said unless you have worked for an ISP you just won't know all the questions. I am also hoping that 3-5 years experience with an ISP will allow me to move up the ranks pretty quickly.

I think it may. SP experience seems to be whats common between all the high level guys/gals here.

networker050184

vinbuck wrote: »

I'm actually about to make the jump from a Service Provider back into the Enterprise....!

Don't do it!!! SP is where the fun is man!

shodown

networker050184 wrote: »

Don't do it!!! SP is where the fun is man!

Why do you say that. I actually enjoy the enterprise more than the SP. The work is not as fast pase which allows you to do a better quality end product. When I worked for a smaller SP we didn't have access to labs or large development areas. I"m sure the guys at the larger ones have full departments that take care of those functions which would negate my complaint, but in your view why is it so better.

vinbuck

networker050184 wrote: »

Don't do it!!! SP is where the fun is man!

It definitely is, but they are offering six figures with only a CCNP next to my name and the opportunity to be a Lead Engineer in an enterprise network with 15,000+ users. Their network is roughly the same size as the regional SP I work for...it's massive. They have 18 Slot Nexus 7K chassis stacked up in the datacenter row after row.....

networker050184

shodown wrote: »

Why do you say that. I actually enjoy the enterprise more than the SP. The work is not as fast pase which allows you to do a better quality end product. When I worked for a smaller SP we didn't have access to labs or large development areas. I"m sure the guys at the larger ones have full departments that take care of those functions which would negate my complaint, but in your view why is it so better.

I prefer the larger more complex networks (obviously some enterprises have nice sized networks as well). Providers have to stay on the cutting edge of technology. For example your enterprise might not want to move to IPv6, but if even only a couple enterprises want it the providers need to get it going to stay competitive. Same with things like multicast. There's also nothing like the pressure of designing a large change that affects millions of customers!

vinbuck wrote: »

It definitely is, but they are offering six figures with only a CCNP next to my name and the opportunity to be a Lead Engineer in an enterprise network with 15,000+ users. Their network is roughly the same size as the regional SP I work for...it's massive. They have 18 Slot Nexus 7K chassis stacked up in the datacenter row after row.....

That money is more than possible in an SP environment. Don't let the money sway you away from something that you enjoy. It won't be worth it. I made that mistake once and will never be leaving the provider side again.

shodown

vinbuck wrote: »

It definitely is, but they are offering six figures with only a CCNP next to my name and the opportunity to be a Lead Engineer in an enterprise network with 15,000+ users. Their network is roughly the same size as the regional SP I work for...it's massive. They have 18 Slot Nexus 7K chassis stacked up in the datacenter row after row.....

Only a CCNP Really.

If you are a legit CCNP 100K shouldn't be out of your range. You are finally getting what you are worth

vinbuck

shodown wrote: »

Only a CCNP Really.

If you are a legit CCNP 100K shouldn't be out of your range. You are finally getting what you are worth

Haha...true enough. I spent over a year and a half on the CCNP, so I like to think i'm not just a paper tiger, but after delving into the CCIE Blueprint, I realize how much I don't know and how far I have yet to go. Having said that though, working at a service provider has taken me from having just enough networking knowledge to be dangerous to designing and implementing a large MPLS core and all the fun access side stuff that attaches to it. Also, my troubleshooting skills are so far beyond where they used to be.

The biggest benefit though is that I learned how to learn networking. Now, I can digest and start applying a new technology more quickly after some testing and research because I have a very solid foundation built up from blood, sweat and tears.

That money is more than possible in an SP environment. Don't let the money sway you away from something that you enjoy. It won't be worth it. I made that mistake once and will never be leaving the provider side again.

I've been wrestling with it, but after touring the datacenter and seeing what a cutting edge network they have, I have no doubt that I'll get to play with the latest and greatest. I may very well return to the provider side, but I want to round out my design and operational experience and play in the data center a little bit instead of the CO.

networker050184

Just get a job at a provider that has DC as a service. Best of both worlds!

vinbuck

Jackace wrote: »

This is what the guy told me as well. He said unless you have worked for an ISP you just won't know all the questions. I am also hoping that 3-5 years experience with an ISP will allow me to move up the ranks pretty quickly.

He wasn't just blowing sunshine up your console port

SP Engineers (The good ones anyway) are probably one of the highest paid non-manager IT positions - it's kinda like being an Astronaut in IT

shodown

I think Enterprise IT consultants are the highest paid. I've seen the billing rates for completely independent guys and they are as high as 300 a hour.

it_consultant

vinbuck wrote: »

He wasn't just blowing sunshine up your console port

SP Engineers (The good ones anyway) are probably one of the highest paid non-manager IT positions - it's kinda like being an Astronaut in IT

The best network engineers I have ever worked with were on the service provider side of the house. Not just good at troubleshooting, but an other-worldly knowledge of protocols from cable signalling up.

it_consultant

shodown wrote: »

I think Enterprise IT consultants are the highest paid. I've seen the billing rates for completely independent guys and they are as high as 300 a hour.

Whoa you are getting ripped. It depends on the consulting, if they are charging $300 an hour then you are getting a lot of complex project management for your dollar...hopefully. I would bill about half that right now.

shodown

I'm actually the consultant at the place I work



P.S I don't charge 300

networker050184

shodown wrote: »

I think Enterprise IT consultants are the highest paid. I've seen the billing rates for completely independent guys and they are as high as 300 a hour.

What about SP consultants? I've seen some high dollar consultants come in to just provide some input on an already hashed out design.

shodown

networker050184 wrote: »

What about SP consultants? I've seen some high dollar consultants come in to just provide some input on an already hashed out design.

I'm not to familure with that area of it, but as a rule of thumb is:

If you are working through a recruiter and you get 100 dollars they are getting anywhere between 15-30 dollars a hour. If its a double dip where 1 company is suppose to be doing the recruiting and then they contract it out to another company you can have 2 people taking a cut of what the client is willing to take.

So its in your best bet to try to build relations with the end client who needs the service done, or work with a contracting company for a long time who had good relationships and they can advocate for your rate, or if you are willing to bring them business they will take a no profit and only take operating cost out there cut.

I can also imagine that at the SP level they are looking for the Scott Morris,(soon to be forsaken_ga) types who have a long track record of successful projects as a failure at the SP level means everyone knows and the competitors gain on them.

Jackace

Thanks everyone for your input I really appreciate it. I got a call today and I go in for an in-person interview next week. Let's hope it goes well.