Failing to get the job again

MrXpert

I attended an interview for a 1st Line Helpdesk role this week and during the interview was told I came across really well and they also said they were worried I might get bored and leave because I came across as being very technical. The role was 12 months only contract working in 1st Line so would be dealing with things like password resets, AD but not switches and routers. Also putting software on laptops and readying them for deployment. Some on-site work involved. They use XP and 7. I explained to them why I had chosen to do my Cisco certs and that I intended to do a MCTS in win 7. I also reiterated to them that I would not get bored at all and that I had little 1st Line experience and am looking to build on it.
They seemed very impressed with the fact I managed to learn so much on my own as this showed I was a fast learner. They also told me they were not going to ask me any technical questions because I seemed "technical enough". I was surprised at this. They were aware of the fact that I have about 10 years customer service and sales experience (I had been a sales account manager once) so am very good at communicating with people and have used many types of call logging systems.

I found out today I did not get the job and that it was a very close run thing (their words via email) between me and another candidate. The other candidate had more experience.
I am confused by this because experience wise...i'm in my mid 30s and they admitted that their current team is made up of 20 somethings. Admittedly I don't have much 1st line experience but they did also said I was overly technical for the role and were worried I was going to get bored. But the other candidate was more experienced? wow...and I thought they said I was too technical.

What should have been my answer when they asked me about getting bored? this is not the first time I have been asked this in a recent interview.I always explain to them that I want to keep contributing to the company and my immediate goals are to do my first line position to the best of my abilities. Obviously If I was going to get bored then I wouldn't have bothered applying for the job in the first place.

Any suggested strategies?

networker050184

With all of your certifications and lack of experience you are falling in a bad category as you've noticed. You are over certifying yourself out of the lower level jobs yet don't have the experience for the higher level jobs. Employers know you are going to jump on the first train out of town for a better job. Most employers are looking to hire people that are going to be long term solutions for the position.

3Dtechguy

I've been unemployed for the past 2 years now. It sucks because I have experience and cannot seem to land a job. I've had quite a few interviews and the most promising was with Lockheed Martin and they ended up hiring an in-house guy that decided he wanted the job. Mostly, the others say I have too big of a gap in my work history. That sucks, because as long as I'm unemployed, the gap just keeps getting bigger. In the meantime, I'm getting my MCITP:SA cert and Sec+ and should be finished with them both by the end of Nov. Hopefully then I will be able to get some offers, even if it's an entry level position. Keep your head up and stay positive.

Concerned Water

Dumb it down a little for jobs like that, they won't know. Don't list CCNA, but CompTIA certs for that.

it_consultant

Yeah, you need to learn an OS, probably Windows but Linux would be acceptable for level I Linux support.

Akaricloud

Honestly if you're applying for a job like that I would definitely leave off the CCNP and possibly even CCNA. They were worried that you were too technical because of your certs and were seeking someone with more experience, which from what I can see you lack. Do you have any experience in IT or just certifications?

eansdad

Yup, if I saw CCNA and CCNP applying for a tier 1 help desk I would think one of two things.

Either:
1 This guy will bail as soon as he gets another offer
2 What is wrong with this guy if he has this level of knowledge but is willing to drop to tier 1

Drop all certs off resume except CompTIA A+, Net+, Security+ and the CCENT. That should get you into a help desk/desktop support job with out to many questions or worries. Add the rest for NOC jobs JR level positions.

lsud00d

eansdad wrote: »

Yup, if I saw CCNA and CCNP applying for a tier 1 help desk I would think one of two things.

Either:
1 This guy will bail as soon as he gets another offer
2 What is wrong with this guy if he has this level of knowledge but is willing to drop to tier 1

Drop all certs off resume except CompTIA A+, Net+, Security+ and the CCENT. That should get you into a help desk/desktop support job with out to many questions or worries. Add the rest for NOC jobs JR level positions.

This is solid advice, but it is possible that even with the "trifecta" and CCENT listed you will be viewed as overqualified for Tier 1 HD I.

I remember being on hiring committees and reviewing applications in 2008-2009 when everything REALLY bottomed out, and man I couldn't believe the skew between credentials and position level!

Good luck though OP, I hope you find a job soon!

RouteMyPacket

networker050184 wrote: »

With all of your certifications and lack of experience you are falling in a bad category as you've noticed. You are over certifying yourself out of the lower level jobs yet don't have the experience for the higher level jobs. Employers know you are going to jump on the first train out of town for a better job. Most employers are looking to hire people that are going to be long term solutions for the position.

BINGO!

You are applying for a Help Desk position and I scanned over to your avatar and saw the certs and immediately shook my head. What kind of experience do you have? It sounds like you are in a "cart before the horse" situation. Certification has got to be the #1 problem in IT, too many people getting certifications yet have absolutely no experience. I even see that all over this very site.

I cannot stress enough that certifications are "SUPPLEMENTAL" to your experience. I really can't give more advice until I understand your experience level. You went into the interview guns blazing showing your certifications and that alone is why you did not get the position.

It costs a company money to hire you and they made the smart decision. Employers do not want to invest time and money in you if they are not going to see a return on that investment. They assumed you were using them as a place to work until something better came along. I understand their position.

Concerned Water

@RouteMyPacket

If that's the case, why would they have interviewed him? They had to have known this before they interviewed him, they called him. Personally, it sounds like someone that doesn't know what he or she is doing. Also, for someone starting in IT, all he or she has is certifications. I was certified before I got my first IT job.

MrXpert

Concerned Water wrote: »

@RouteMyPacket

If that's the case, why would they have interviewed him? They had to have known this before they interviewed him, they called him. Personally, it sounds like someone that doesn't know what he or she is doing. Also, for someone starting in IT, all he or she has is certifications. I was certified before I got my first IT job.

I appreciate everyone's comments
Concernedwater has brought up a good point and one that I also spoke about with my wife about. Yes they knew I was probably over qualified for the role so why call me in. They even told me they'd skip asking me any technical questions because I was very technical (i gave them examples of stuff I'd done and customer issues I'd resolved). I was actually looking forward to their technical questions so was very sad when they didn't hit me with it.
I do have about 6-8 monthscontract work 1st Line experience (dealing with more varied things than this job I was interviewed entailed) and about 5 years experience building and repairing PCs in workplace.

RouteMyPacket mentioned me going in guns blazing talking about my Certs. That did not happen. In fact their job description called for such things as "Understanding of VPNs, VMWare" etc which I do have experience of. On the surface when reading the job description it did appear to be quite a technical role for 1st line but when I went into the interview the Network Manager said "I can't believe HR wrote those terms on the job spec" They were the ones that brought up my certs during interview so I explained to them why I had decided to study. I love learning. In previous cases (before I had any certs or just one) I had been told that I didn't have enough experience and/or certs so I took the decision to get some certs.


I could drop the Cisco certs off my CV but there's always the risk.
But it could be argued that how can someone get lots of experience unless they are given that chance?
and how can someone get into a role without certs?
Why do we study in school? why do people go to University?
It's a catch22 situation.

Concerned Water

@MrXpert

So, they didn't know what they were doing Well, if I saw a description like that, I would of listed everything as well. It is tricky keeping stuff out, one certification might even make the decision between getting hired or not. For whatever reason they didn't hire you, don't worry about it and keep moving forward. I was denied today for a job without reason(very strange, this never happened to me before), at least you got a reason

Michael2

Who knows? HR are the ones that call people in for interviews. It's likely that no one that you would be under even saw your resume before that time. I'm thinking that your resume came up in a keyword search, but the manager you spoke to determined that you didn't have what they were looking for. Hiding the Cisco certs might help when you interview for helpdesk in the future, but the MCTS should help.

kman69

RouteMyPacket wrote: »

BINGO!

I cannot stress enough that certifications are "SUPPLEMENTAL" to your experience. I really can't give more advice until I understand your experience level. You went into the interview guns blazing showing your certifications and that alone is why you did not get the position.

How one can obtaining basic experience if he/she can't get the foot inside of door for an entry level job?

ptilsen

Instead of intentionally selling yourself short, set your sights on higher-level positions. If you have certs beyond your experience and come off as too technical and too qualified in interviews, you need to be looking for jobs more suited to your skill level. A lot of employers may disqualify you if you don't have the amount of experience they're looking for, but smart ones won't. Your skill level is ultimately what matters -- experience just helps prove it.

MrXpert

ptilsen wrote: »

Instead of intentionally selling yourself short, set your sights on higher-level positions. If you have certs beyond your experience and come off as too technical and too qualified in interviews, you need to be looking for jobs more suited to your skill level. A lot of employers may disqualify you if you don't have the amount of experience they're looking for, but smart ones won't. Your skill level is ultimately what matters -- experience just helps prove it.

Taken on board.Thanks
I will focus on jobs which are beyond me and hopefully an employer will see potential. I'll stick keep looking on the basic 1st Line jobs too but leave Cisco out of it unless it calls on networking

jahsoul

ptilsen wrote: »

Instead of intentionally selling yourself short, set your sights on higher-level positions. If you have certs beyond your experience and come off as too technical and too qualified in interviews, you need to be looking for jobs more suited to your skill level. A lot of employers may disqualify you if you don't have the amount of experience they're looking for, but smart ones won't. Your skill level is ultimately what matters -- experience just helps prove it.

But then if you do that, a small population on this site will tell you that you are crazy and you should just settle....lol but serious. I've always seen IT to be one huge catch-22. Certs don't prove experience but in order to get experience, people want to see a resume with certs.

I remember mikej412 talking about interviewing guys for CCVP role who apparently passed the prescreening but when it came to a technical interview, "couldn't make a phone call if you gave them a pay phone and a pocket full of change." But reading that, it makes me wonder, what about those who might not have the work experience but are well verse and very technical because they spent thousands on a multi-site lab environment and put it to good use. :-/ . I agree with ptilsen though. Sometimes you gotta have that shoot for the stars type mentality. They can either say no or give you a chance for an interview, where you can blow them away.

MrXpert

I'm going to change my approach to this and let you know how things go. My first stop is making another CV to appear less technical and then making another one to be very Cisco focussed.I have one currently which kinda fits in between the two.

I do have another question relating to interviews.Will post back later as have to rush out now.

W Stewart

My question is why are you even applying to a job like this if you've clearly put time and effort into cisco certifications? Why not look for an entry level networking job or at least a job that involves some networking? That CCNP is going to remain worthless to a lot of employers until you get some experience behind it. Right now your CCNA can probably open more doors for you whereas you CCNP will probably just have them shut in your face.

JustFred

For starters do not even mention CCNP, you only have Route and with two exams to go, add the CCNA to your CV and just concentrate on getting your foot in the door then start displaying those CCNP qualities, the employer will notice the changes in you and would most likely want to keep you on board.

Good luck and have fun

ptilsen

Hey, there's nothing wrong with having two resumes to apply to different types of positions with. I mean, you need to be a bit careful about applying to the same organization twice, but otherwise, that can be a good compromise.

DPG

Some good advice in this thread.

I would like to add that some companies requires at least X amount of applicants to be interviewed for a position before someone is hired. They may have already had someone else in mind. This could be the reason why they skipped the technical portion of the interview.

N2IT

If you were applying for a level 1 job with those certs I would be concerned as well. Anyone I know in person that carries the CCNA or NP has years and years of experience.

I think dumbing it down a bit would be the best bet.

I wish you the best.

sieff

I don't think you should dumb down your credentials. On your resume only include the certs that you actually have certificates for. From what I understand you only have a CCNA. I wouldn't include the CCENT at all ... I'd list "CCNA R&S". and list technologies that you are skilled on and could speak to in an interview. It sounds like this position was actually beneath your skill set anyways. I'd try applying to jobs that you may be either an equal match to or slightly under qualified for but would be up for the challenge. at the end of the day its just advice.

MrXpert

Without anyone's advice i'd be stuck with the same boring ideas so thanks

Has anyone come across interview questions such as
"What is your greatest weakness?
and "how do you deal with difficult situations?"

I've attended nearly 30 job interviews in a 15 year working career and these questions occasionally do come up yet I always find them the hardest ones to answer because they seem kinda generic.

boredgamelad

The greatest weakness question came up in a number of interviews I did a few years ago. I find it best to take a negative and turn it into a positive if you can (and you can). I usually pick something I recently improved on and mention it. "I used to be a procrastinator. I never missed deadlines but I noticed how much stress it put me under to work on things at the last minute. I recently studied project management and learned some great time management techniques. I've applied some of those methods and now find myself more punctual, efficient, and productive." If you can recognize a weakness without actually making it sound like a weakness, I think you've done a good job.

If they ask how I deal with difficult situations, I say, "That depends on the situation. Can you give me an example of a difficult situation I might encounter here?" and then answer as honestly as I can.

higherho

boredgamelad wrote: »

If they ask how I deal with difficult situations, I say, "That depends on the situation. Can you give me an example of a difficult situation I might encounter here?" and then answer as honestly as I can.

I've been asked that question multiple times and honestly they typically want to know how your troubleshooting process is in any given situation and go from their. Asking them to give you an example is not a bad idea but I think its not really necessary to ask it.

boredgamelad

I'm aware that the answer is often not as important as how you answer it. But "difficult situation" could be anything. It could be "your butt itches in the middle of an important meeting with a big client" or "ninjas have kicked down the door and asked you to rescue the president, but you haven't had breakfast yet". Getting an example gives you something to work with that you can use to show off your train of thought.

higherho

Maybe but if they wanted to give you a specific example they would have. I was given specific examples of difficult situiations with DNS servers going down and how would I respond in a technical sense. However, when people generally ask you "How do you handle difficult situations" they want to know your general troubleshooting method, how your personality is in tough situations ,etc. Their not looking for answers to technical questions their looking at your character.

EDIT

They also do that so you can give examples of personal situations and want to see how you explain your self. Giving an example helps but it also limits the scope of the question.

Double EDIT

Realized I was just repeating myself. I am tired.... Sorry.

boredgamelad

I've asked that question at every interview I've been to where the question was asked and they've never had a problem with it. Interviewing isn't a one-way street, there's no rule that says you have to answer the question exactly as it was asked. And you'll notice I never said it had to be a technical scenario.

Usually they give me an example, and they are more often than not non-technical. Sometimes they're really good and sometimes they're pretty plain, e.g., "you're late for a meeting and you get a flat tire". Sometimes they say "just give me an idea of how you deal with any difficult problem" and I usually lose interest after that. I still give an answer of course but if you ask a generic question, expect a generic answer. I've also heard "Well, just give me an example" and "No". The last one was said in a sort of joking way--I ended up turning that one into a discussion of the current situation and how I was going to deal with his refusal to give me a scenario. He said he liked the way I was able to think on my feet.

lantech

Some good responses to your questions.

Also, when looking at jobs don't limit yourself to just one level of job. No one says you can't apply for a higher level position. You may or may not get an interview but the worst thing that can happen is they say no. The best thing is you can walk into an interview, blow their socks off and land a great job.

Just be honest about your experience in the interview.