Spoofing Cisco Experience

EdTheLad

This one is for guys working in the field on cisco kit.
So imagine a guy buys loads of routers and switches, studies hard and
trys to understand exactly how everything works, he gets a CCIE but has
no actual on the job experience with cisco.
This isnt a major issue as far as solving problems on customer networks as
he knows **** loads about network design and troubleshooting.
The only problem is he's not so sure exactly what type of software people use in practise i.e. what telnet applications are best.Will most jobs just involve telneting to routers to trobleshoot or will most jobs need skills in other areas like cisco works or whatever.
So my idea is to learn all the cisco kit and possibly become a cisco contractor
without actually getting a permanent position.
If anyone out there is working daily on cisco kit can you give a brief outline of what software apps you use and generally what the job entails?

darkuser

it's been said that a ccie deals up to layer 4.
in other words routing works and you can reach all needed tcp/ip ports on applications.
I couldn't care less about the applications themselves.
(if I had a dime for every time I've asked "did you start your webserver?")
different shops and different jobs require different things of people.
and different people bring different skill sets to the table.
but a ccie is an expert in routing and switching and providing tcp/ip reachability.
I think what you are describing is a project manager.
that would be the pmp cert .....

my 2c

EdTheLad

I dont think you understood my question, i want to know what applications i.e. programs are used on the field to enhance troublehooting,network managability,ease of configuration etc etc.I am not talking about the application layer.

garv221

I don't really use anything besides hyperterminal to connect a console w/ cable
Telnet from CMD when I don't feel like moving from my office.
Wild Packets to analyze the network..
Cisco IDS of the obvious.
Bandwidth manager for bandwidth allocation (packeteer)
& I put these all together with addition to my noodle & I can find anything on a network. I believe the true key is knowing in your head how all things flow together to make a network. You know how it works then you know how it breaks.

keenon

i use
CRT for telnet
Ethereal for sniffing
Netstumbler for wireless checking
solarwinds TFTP server and adv subnet calculator
Visio drawings
Golden FTP server

there are a few other network scanning software that can be used to verify ip address, ports open, OS types and NIC hardware

most of these can be found for free or nearly that

EdTheLad

Thanks guys, this is the type of info i was looking for.

Yankee

I think Dark was reacting to the subject of your post and perhaps the "ease of configuration" comment. In a few years, if you have continued with your studies and stayed in the networking world, I predict you will better understand why he responded as he did!

Yankee

EdTheLad

I've been in the business for 7 years thats why i phrased the question the way i did.My question regarding ease of configuration is due to seeing some programs which will do a template config for you.I was wondering maybe some are useful and used in practice for large network deployment.
I'm not looking for someone to get there knickers in a twist over wording of questions,im just looking for information as most people are on this site.

Yankee

Okay here is more info. Experienced techs don't use GUI interfaces. They only use the CLI. They don't use autoconfiguration utilities as they prefer to do it themselves.
Application choice is typically a personal preference when dealing with shareware and freeware as you may have noticed from the other responses, but larger companies buy the expensive products not mentioned.
You can't "spoof" your way into being a good tech. Only knowledge and experience can help you reach that plateau and only continued reading with hands on a production network can keep you there.
I was not flaming you. Just attempting to explain why I thought one of the most knowledgable and experienced people here answered as they did.

Yankee

forbesl

Yankee wrote:

Experienced techs don't use GUI interfaces. They only use the CLI. They don't use autoconfiguration utilities as they prefer to do it themselves.

Well stated, and very true!

darkuser

word
if one more of my operators asks me where to find something in the gui I'll shoot myself.
well not really I've got a new house to pay for.

hmmm i still need to read through questions
i'll have to remember that for the lab

tunerX

Depending on the customer I have used the following tech tools.

CLI - SSH, Telnet, Ping, Spray, traceroute, route add/delete, netstat, nslookup, snmpwalk, snmpget, and many others. I can script in csh, ksh, dtksh, expect, perl and others to make quick work of repetition. Scripting or programming knowledge is very good to have when working with a network and network applications.

Tools - Scotty TKIned, Solar Winds, SNMPc, Whats Up Gold, HP Openview, Cisco Works, MRTG, RRDTool, Net MRI, and several others.

Cisco Works is great for monitoring at layer 1-3. HP Openview can monitor pretty much every layer (big program with many options). The tools Cisco has for managing and monitoring QOS on large installations is currently unbeatable. Cisco also has awesome tools designed for VPNs/IPSec and VLANs.

A graphical tool is the best for managing a large network. CLI tools do not have the nuts to manage hundreds of routers, switches, multiplexers, gateways, gatekeepers, PBXs, and custom devices. I usually write a VB, Perl TK, Expect TK, or TCL/TK script to add a, TCL/TK. GUI's are awesome because they give you "drillable" options. If I want to look at routing tables for 20 routers, I click on the routers and click to get the routing table entries. Pretty much anything that does SNMP and has a customizable GUI front end is awesome.

For example. I have a view of my Tier 1, Tier 2, and Tier 3 networks. I can set up my GUI's to manage based on SNMP traps or SNMP queries. I can make links or objects change different colors. Instead of a standard ping, which does not check multiple routes, I set up my system to manage based on interface status, OSPF, BGP, MPLS, and several other MIBS. If I am managing OSPF I can set my GUI obects up to change to red if the OSPF neighbor goes down. This is far better than anything CLI because I can watch 300+ backbone routers on our multiple 2 Meter displays. If anything turns red I know about it based on the polling interval. Try to check the status on 300 routers by CLI and see where it gets you. The whole time we are looking at the network we are collecting SNMP based performance statistics to determine weak points in the network that need work. For particular problem in the network I will use CLI in the router to look at things.

The most popular and functional tools I have used are Openview, MRTG, SNMPc, CiscoWorks, and SolarWinds. My favorite is Openview because I can write programs/scripts that plug right into it.

My job requires contantly checking the network for ways to improve and maintain reachability and response. I also engineer/plan/manage new links via cable plants, LOS terrestrial radios, and satellite. I look at things like user application requirements, locations and geographic disparity to determine the type of equipment that is required. I do alot more but this is getting long winded. I am currently in the middle of moving from Germany to New York to be the Network Engineer for 10th Mountain Division JNN that my company sold to the Army.

Due to ease of use JNN uses MRTG, SNMPc, and SolarWinds.

A true network Engineer cares about applications and customer requirements. This is because a network engineer will have to build the network to meet application and customer demands. A network manager also cares about applications and the network because the main purpose for his job is to ensure that the network is constantly available and utilitzed to maximum potential for applications and customer demands. A network administrator does not care about this stuff because he actually sits in trenches and configures the equipment based on the engineer and manager taskings.

EdTheLad

Thanks TurnerX,
Finally someone on my wavelength!

Yankee

Turner, not a sole here would disagree that monitoring applications use GUIs for configuration but that wasn't what generated the comments. It was the ease of configuration of the networking hardware reference that made me say engineers don't use GUIs or autoconfiguration applications. I don't think I have to explain why they are a bad idea...

Listening to a customer while designing a network is admirable, but knowing when to say no is a necessity. Saying yes to everything typically gets you a klugged together, unstable network that is difficult to undertsand and a nightmare to maintain. Many US gov't networks are good examples of what not to do.

Yankee

dissolved

ed_the_lad wrote:

This one is for guys working in the field on cisco kit.
So imagine a guy buys loads of routers and switches, studies hard and
trys to understand exactly how everything works, he gets a CCIE but has
no actual on the job experience with cisco.
This isnt a major issue as far as solving problems on customer networks as
he knows **** loads about network design and troubleshooting.
The only problem is he's not so sure exactly what type of software people use in practise i.e. what telnet applications are best.Will most jobs just involve telneting to routers to trobleshoot or will most jobs need skills in other areas like cisco works or whatever.
So my idea is to learn all the cisco kit and possibly become a cisco contractor
without actually getting a permanent position.
If anyone out there is working daily on cisco kit can you give a brief outline of what software apps you use and generally what the job entails?

What is your current job? You can get a lot of experience in network administration with this stuff before attempting a network engineering job. Actually, I can't imagine doing it any other way.

Tunerx,darkusr and keenon are right on the money

darkuser

sometimes i come off a little harsh ......
but i run a tight ship.
the last time my network was down was the nyc blackout.

DRAM FLASH NVRAM
Module Total Used Free Total Used Free Total Used Free

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1 65408K 21851K 43557K 8192K 5584K 2608K 512K 248K 264K

Uptime is 713 days, 16 hours, 17 minutes
s1-LL-18-1> (enable)

honestly I believe customers don't know what they want.
or they wouldn't have to hire anyone in the first place
and would do the job in-house.
that's what I do .. but I'm a mutant.
they may know from the high level, but they'll have you design a cluster-f
and then ask you why it doesn't work.

I also work in a research and science environment and i have to tell people whom are adjunct professors at major universities with more phd's than i have finger that they don't
know what they want. just trust us and we'll build it.

yankee if you're ever in ny let me know I'll comp you some tickets.

Yankee

Thanks for the thought, Darth. I'm 5 hours south of ya in the other "target" area.

It's probably easier to tell a Phd no then it is to tell a general which would account for some of the problems

Yankee

tunerX

Yankee wrote:

Turner, not a sole here would disagree that monitoring applications use GUIs for configuration but that wasn't what generated the comments. It was the ease of configuration of the networking hardware reference that made me say engineers don't use GUIs or autoconfiguration applications. I don't think I have to explain why they are a bad idea...

Listening to a customer while designing a network is admirable, but knowing when to say no is a necessity. Saying yes to everything typically gets you a klugged together, unstable network that is difficult to undertsand and a nightmare to maintain. Many US gov't networks are good examples of what not to do.

Yankee

I believe ed_the_lad was implying "ease of configuration" with regards to tools, applications, and other management aids.

Without a customer you don't have a job. Services and quality of service are what a customer pays for. If you keep telling them "NO" they will find someone who can actually do what they need. You do not necessarily have to say "NO"; you need to have the capability to explain why certain aspects of a customers requests are un-realistic, in a manner that the customer can understand.

Also, most Government networks are top notch. The GIG-E is a prime example of how engineers are redesigning high quality government networks. Now for current tactical military networks, they are flawed because the backbone was designed back in the 70s and has been patched and retrofitted to handle data. So I have this theory for current equipment... garbage in, garbage out.

The new systems for tactical communications with the TDMA/FDMA and data on the move L band satellites are going to change the face of tactical military communications. And this is just a starter, WIN-T is going to be awesome. The only problem is that the users and operators of the equipment don't really know how to do their jobs.

darkuser

i guess it's easy for me to stand on a high ground.
my users are scientists working on grants from nsf and nasa and such.
nasa actually paid my salary for a while to implement infrastructure for science research.
my enviornment is ruled more by politics then by profit.
we can say no if someone backs us up and we provide valid proof and alternatives.

wow .... i haven't had a good discussion in a while.

EdTheLad

Currently i work on Alcatel kit, i design,toubleshoot and do everything that needs to be done to keep the customer happy.I'm a contractor and work mainly with wan protocols, i make **** loads of cash and now i have the chance to buy a house,take a year break and move into another field.My plan is to work on IP as im completely bored with ATM,FR circuit emulation blah blah blah, im falling asleep already.
I'll quit my job at Christmas and move to Oz in Jan, in the mean time i'm trying to get some time to study CCNP but its difficult with work,just back from an 11 hour train trip.Anyway in my job i work with GUI's and CLI,if i need to troubleshoot a problem of course i will use the CLI but generally i will use the GUI to narrow the field of search,if i want to make a pvc across 15 nodes ill use the GUI as will the customer!
Hence ease of config question,since i'm only starting on the cisco kit now its better to know earlier what applications the customer uses.
Since my long term goal is to become a contractor in cisco and continue making **** loads of cash and working 6 months Oz, 6 months Europe, i reckon i will be contracting for a customer i.e. i will be the stupid customer
using some crappy GUI.
So instead of being an ignorant CCIE running cli debugging and trying to troubleshoot a network by telneting into individual nodes i want to have the big picture, the quicker you locate the problem the quicker its fixed.Remember the old saying, a picture tells a thousand words.Look on the job sites many request Cisco Works and Openview exp.

The debate goes on....

Yankee

never mind

Yankee

darkuser

i can only hope to be an " ignorant CCIE "

and your response reads like a techno-jargon inspired poem .....

yankee .....

robert morris was spotted walking arround blackhat
http://blogs.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2005/07/the_michael_lyn_1.html