Younger Generation Underestimated

Monkerz

I guess I just need to receive someone else thoughts on the matter.

Where I work, I am the youngest employee in my department and I believe in the Corporate building. When I was hired on, I came through a recruiter to fill a "Wired" Networking position. My previous employer was insourcing and because I didn't want to move I was going to be let go. I feel as if I proved myself within my two 90-day probationary periods, now I think I was low balled salary wise because of my age.

Where I came from, I had the chance to absorb a tremendous amount of Networking/Cisco knowledge from my Senior Engineer. So I felt the pay, while low, was worth the knowledge and learning experiences I was receiving from a co-worker. In addition, I was receiving a Holiday bonus.

Where I am now, I am making a touch more salary wise and no bonus. We were a predominantly Nortel/Avaya shop, but all of that is being phased out with Cisco gear. This is why I was hired on. Only two of the eight networking guys in my department have background in Cisco, I am one of them.

I will finally have my CCNP by January, but when inquiring if that would affect my pay I was told, "just depends". I feel that though I have the knowledge of someone making $75k, I am treated as a greenhorn because of my age. Also by what I have heard from co-workers, promotions a very few and far between.

Do you think I should stay, or begin looking elsewhere? Should I ask for more money? I am 27, I have been working in IT since 2007, but only in a networking gig since October 2010. I have been told over and over again that it is unbelievable my level of knowledge when I have only been in this field for 2.5 years. So I have 2 years 4 months experience in networking, am I expecting too much?

ptilsen

The answer to variants of the question "Should I stay, or should I go?" is almost always the same in this field: Go.

Yes, experience and age will result in salary discrimination. You may as well try for more money, but chances are another company will recognize your value and compensate you for it.

If it's any consolation, I think discrimination is much worse for people over 40. We twenty-somethings can get a hard time from older people, but ultimately if we have the skill we can get the money. Older people (as in people older than us -- not "old" people) often aren't given a chance, especially in this field.

Krones

It is very possible you are discriminated in pay because of your age but also your experience in comparison to other employees. Also, do you know how much the average pay of similar networks techs is in your shop? Is it near the same level or much more than what you currently make? If you feel that your skillset is worth more than what you currently make then you should seek new employment. I know many IT guys that have been working for a decade that do not make 75k; however, I know people on this very forum have stated they make upwards of close to 100k if not more after a few years of experience with a ton of dedication to their knowledge base and the right career choices. What do CCNP jobs in your area pay?

Monkerz

Thank you for the replies.

I do not know what other techs in my department are making, that is kept very confidential. The majority of employees in Information Systems at this company are in their high 40s low 50s. Closest person to my age, that I know of, is a 35 year old.

My job title, according to salary guides from different sources, should bring in $68k. I am making much much less than that.

A CCNP job in my area is around $78k.

I just don't know when my experience will rise above my age.

DigitalZeroOne

I believe it is a very bad practice to expect a certain amount of money based on certifications, while you do have experience, it's usually unlikely that a company will increase your pay once you are already working, just because you have a certain certification. The same is usually true if you earn a degree while you are already working for a company. Now, when it comes to promotions or advances, those certs and/or degree can help when applying for senior positions, but once you are working with a company, don't expect them to just start shelling out money because you passed a test.

I'm not taking anything away from anyone that has certs (especially me), but experience, work ethic, attitude, friendliness (I don't mean suck-ups), they all mean more than a pass/fail from a testing center.

I have been in IT for about 15 years now, I have taught classes, worked phone support, desktop support, server admin, server installs; and most things in-between. I have worked with idiots that had certs and college degrees, knowledgeable people that had certs and college degrees, and highly experienced and extremely knowledgeable people with no paper to back it up.

Having said that, I'm an advocate for certifications, it definitely helps on paper when comparing two individuals that have similar backgrounds otherwise, just make sure your expectations are within reason. Good luck with your decision.

emerald_octane

Honestly, I don't think speculation will be very good for you in this case. After you have the CCNP in your hand, then start shopping around for options. I think you will be surprised with the response, in a good way.

YFZblu

DigitalZeroOne wrote: »

it's usually unlikely that a company will increase your pay once you are already working, just because you have a certain certification. The same is usually true if you earn a degree while you are already working for a company.

Which is exactly why there is so much turnover in this field. If the current employer won't pay you, often time someone else will. Suddenly you have talented people walking out the door.

I'm not saying an employer needs to immediately break out the pocket book just because a certification was passed; however that should certainly be a consideration, among other things. Depending on the employee, it may not even be about money.

truckfit

How much you on?

Also im sorry but you think its racism

dmoore44

Knowledge and certs are one thing, but the usual determinant for pay is the practical application of the knowledge/cert (i.e. years of experience) that employers value. As long as you maintain your knowledge and skills, the pay will come as you continue to put in the years.

But, it never hurts to shop around - especially if you're feeling like you're not earning to your potential.

networker050184

I've been the youngest person at every job I've ever had (after the military). Show them what you can do and you won't have any problems. Talk is cheap.

Monkerz

Thanks again for all the replies.

As Networker said, maybe I just show them what all I can do and see where it goes from there. With my longevity in Networking not quite where I want it to be yet, I am not to a point where I am comfortable finding a new job. Many jobs I have seen are looking for 4 to 5 years experience, which I do not have yet.

Akaricloud

I've run into the same thing a couple times before but if you can really show them how knowledgeable that you are, most will overlook the age.

It's especially hard for me since I'm 23 and look ~18. Everyone where I work now just assumes I'm part of the helpdesk staff since I'm by far the youngest person in my department.

broli720

I'm 23 so I know how you feel. I'm kinda in a similar boat but I'm looking for a firm to sponsor me for a clearnace; the job is more or less meh. I say look else where though but keep in mind, if it doesn't workout at the new job you might be unemployed. I don't really have any concerns about that because my family is well off so I have a pretty big safety net. You could just tough it out though, maybe start on your masters and then once you get it bounce (that's what I did).

J_86

I am in almost the exact same situation as you are. I know more about Cisco/networking then everyone in my department except out network admin. I watch other struggle with minor stuff, but won’t ask for help or take any advice because they have the attitude they know more than me, etc, etc. I just go on about my work and solve the problems that come directly to me or that our network guy asks me to. I’m about your age and have been here for 4.5 years, I started in IT right out of high school. Just today I was passed on something; I know it was because of my age.
Anyway.
If you really feel like you are not getting anywhere, shop around. The best time to look for another position is when you are already employed, you can take your time and really look for something you feel is a good opportunity.

tpatt100

Holy crap I am in the "older people 40 crowd".....

<---- Level 55 Black Ops 2

the_Grinch

Being young, is what it is. At my last job I was the youngest for about a year and some of the managers would comment about being so good at my job with the lack of experience. Honestly, I say stick it out because a project migrating from one phone system to another is going to look great on your resume.

lsud00d

You're only underestimated until you prove your worth. This has always been my favorite part of being the youngest person in every professional situation, and if you're good you will get recognized for it.

My MO is nothing less than exceed customer's expectations--if I am simply meeting them, I have failed.

m3zilla

Just to play devil's advocate, what changes once you get the CCNP? Are you going to be doing more work? Are you going to be working on more complex projects? If you're going to be doing the same exact thing, why should your salary increase?

You were hired because they already believed you are qualified for the job, so all the CCNP is going to do is prove to them that you are indeed qualified.

dave330i

If you're truly skilled, you should look for new employment that'll pay you what you're worth vs. gripping about low pay on a forum.

MrBrian

I'd say once you get that NP then shop around, take on some interviews and see what offers you get. I've had a few friends, who are highly motivated, who start working at a place and reach a level that it's very difficult to go higher. Then they moved to another place which let them flex their skills a bit more, and allowed them to move up. If you're going up through the ranks in work experience/knowledge/certs then changing jobs every now and then is pretty often in IT.

cbolar

I wouldn't say its your age that is holding you back. It could be that your employers aren't seeing you "hustle" at the right moment. I am not saying that you aren't but look at it this way. I am 28 and I use to manage a small company a few years ago when I lived in california, it was a good and a bad thing. I constantly had clients asking if it was my business due to how I handled them. It even reached the point where the owner began to feel threatend because of specific requests for me to perform the work rather then let anyone else touch their machine(s). Eventually I left and formed my own consulting business which I prefer to keep very small.

The reason I bring all of this up is because you need to be seen doing good. Just try not to be obvious when you do it. Eventually someone will have to do something about it even if its the customer it will get through. And if it does not then its time to move on and do your own thing or find someone who will let you.

nel

I couldnt agree more with your thread title. I have experienced this for a long long time. Even now, i have moved into the architecture realm, and yet on a day to day basis i will be constantly ignored and work will be diverted elsewhere because people just think i am the young guy. it completely P*sses me off, so much so that i am starting to give in with the whole scene.

I was even recently turned down from a organisation and i was informed "i was too young".

Previously, when i have brought it up in a previous company i challenged them to give me a chance on a big project. They did. I led the project, designed, spec'd and bought the kit and I delivered. I always admired my boss because he admitted he was wrong. This has happened a few times in most positions i have had and its starting to get boring. I dont mean the fact you need to prove yourself, its good to excel and be challenged, i mean the fact i have to prove i am not a fool due to the ageism problem.

networkjutsu

I've always been the youngest in IT teams that I've been a part of. As previously mentioned in another thread, to really get a significant raise you'll have to look outside your current company. Sure, there are times that promotions in the same company can yield good results but in my experience it was never the case. Few salary bump here and there after being promoted but not $15-30K/year bump on another company.

Even if you're able to prove yourself there are still some "discrimination" that will happen in my opinion. I believe a lot of times, managers are really tied with how much they can give out for raises. I believe anything over a certain threshold would definitely require a lot of explaining to their director and/or higher than CIO.