Dealing with cheaters/braindump users in real life

I met a relative this weekend that had worked in IT for several years as a server admin. He wasn't really talkative about his job and I soon found why. Once I mentioned I was working on my CCNA the first thing out of his mouth was go to (popular well known braindump site) and I'd pass easily. He told me that's how he was able to earn his 3 Microsoft certifications one of which was the MSCE.

I obviously couldn't give him my actual opinion as this is a relative I've just met so I just nodded politely. I'm not surprised this loser lost his job and I hope he stays out of the IT field. What bothers me is I can't get other people to understand why braindumps are wrong and why it's basically cheating. I've been told straight-faced by friends that getting to see an exam before a test isn't cheating it's just "reviewing".

Am I explaining braindumps poorly to people? Even if you know nothing about IT it's obvious cheating period. I get annoyed because I've worked hard on what I have so far and I'm working extremely hard right now. It isn't right to say it's ok for people to ****.

I needed vent, I just wish more people would understand cheating is wrong. Anyone have similar experiences? I don't mean just online where you can get the person banned, but in life where you have to deal with them; where it would you look bad, and impolite to call them out on it.

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Comments

jmritenour

How do you deal with them? Short answer is, you don't. A while back, I had posted a similar topic, I had a co-worker who within a span of 3-4 months, racked up an impressive array of certifications that were way above his skill level (protip, if you don't know what FSMO role is, don't put MCSE & MCITP-EA in your email signature).

It pissed me off, but I think what really got to me was that he was (obviously) dumping his way to success, and here I was, studying and busting my ass, (and failing on a few occasions) like a sucker. But at the end of the day, I can back up my certs with knowledge, and he can't. He would get ripped to shreds within 5 minutes in a technical interview. What good does it do him to have all those certs if he can't back it up? On paper, he's way overqualified of any job he could reasonably do, so if anything, he's painted himself into a corner as far as career mobility goes.

I guess basically, I realized that what other people do don't affect me.

danny069

Doing the right thing will always prevail in the end, when they **** they're only cheating themselves, just because you pass an exam doesn't mean you know the material. Just because you pass a driver's test, doesn't mean you can drive lol.

Iristheangel

petedude wrote: »

True, but-- if management is made aware of issues created by the one bad apple later that they refuse to address, it may be worth taking action if those behaviors/issues affect your ability to be productive. I can cut people slack on hiring practices, but refusing to deal with unethical behaviors long after the employee has been aboard simply irks me.

I am lucky enough to work in an environment that gets rid of them quickly but sadly, their mess-ups and work usually gets handed off to me. The last time one slipped through, it took me 16 hours to fix all the things that the guy took four days to break. He was fired after his 4th day of employment thanks to my awesome boss (No sarcasm. My boss is the best).

Mrock4

jfitzg wrote: »

I have never seen so many white knights before that apparently have never cheated at anything before and have no problem tearing others down... Its amazing since some statistics show that 75% to 98% of students ****. Good to see we have the 2% that dont in here!

Likewise, it's good to know those who **** are accounted for and present.

It's also worth mentioning that your "statistics" are for students, and not industry certifications, so they don't apply, but thanks for playing.

I'll also bow out, with the understanding that some people simply accept cheating. I wasn't suggesting a witch hunt, or public stoning of brain dumpers- but simply a unified presence of likeminded individuals who simply stand up and say "braindumping is not OK with me." - THIS is the attitude that moves an industry forward, not accepting the bad simply because you feel you can't change it.

Iristheangel

@Mrock - *Slow clap.*

bermovick

I have a coworker who has been taking his CCNP & CCNP wireless exams about a week apart (the wireless was for the cisco borderless networks field engineer required for my company's cisco partnership). I gotta admit it ticks me off, him dumping (and gladly admitting it) for something I worked my butt off for nearly a year to get, and making my NP less valuable. About all I can do is hope it bites him in the behind at some point.

Roguetadhg

I didn't read the entire thread. I just read the last two responses from Mrock4.

1) I prefer stoning. Maybe Hot Caramel and bees, too.

2) Why **** on an exam which is supposed to show you're proficient at the material?
It takes the fun out of it. Not a challenge. No gratification. And when it boils down to it - it's a morality thing.

Maybe... Just Maybe...
Now if someone knows their stuff, and they **** on the exam... I don't see how they could '****' if they already know the material. Just means they were too lazy to spend the time to memorize the commands. Which in all fairness - is a lot of commands. I could maybe, possibly, turn a blind eye to someone whose worked in the field for longer than I have been alive and definitely doesn't need to prove anything to anyone... except to get that piece of paper. That piece of paper can definitely help when it comes to clients.

But I'll be honest, most of these candidates won't fall into the "I have built networks before you were a tadpole." Most of the candidates will fall into the "I'm going to **** to get ahead!" Bully for you, Mr cheater. You've got your piece of paper! Talk to me in a couple of months, let's discuss the theories, let's discuss the troubleshooting steps. How much will you really remember and how much is gone?
...Waht? Wtah?

Enough of my ramblings: Here's my points.

Morality. If you're going to **** on this exam, knowingly, **** and go out and spend outrageous amounts to do so... It's all your cash. Why should I trust someone who cheated on a Cert test - where there's people that don't **** and still pass?
1) You think you're better than everyone else.
2) You think you're stupidier than everyone else.
3) You don't care.
4) You just want to rush through this and get the certification.

Let's take a look into these answers:
1- You think you're better than everyone else. We all poop the same way, put pants on the same way, we will die at some point. Get over yourself.

2- You're not stupid. Complete your certification and you'll find your confidence. Really. It happened to me - every. time. I'm not the brightest bulb, ladies and gentlemen. So yes, you can do this - just put your mind into it.

3- You don't care. This is perhaps the most troublesome answer because if you do not care about this... then whose to say you'll care when you get on the job... in the field... where you should care. You know, otherwise people will seek and stone you and depending on how big you don't care. You may end up a lot worse where neglecting could cost the business a lot of money. I've heard of administrators neglecting things like backups... only to find themselves needing them and finding themselves in the unemployment line the next day. Stuff like that. Do care.

4- Rushing through this and that. Some things take time. Rushing can lead to a lot of unneeded stress at work. You should take the time, enjoy the material, learn to understand, to think and to see it and be excited. Sweaty palms and all. It takes a lot of time to learn anything decent. Ever painted a room? It probably looked like crap, but you've learned a lot. Next room - looks better. 4 more rooms and you're almost a pro.

There's also another side of rushing: Working through designs, troubleshooting... having someone breath down your neck while doing these things can rattle most people. Because you'll rush. You'll also probably make more mistakes.

I didn't care to read this thread. Until someone pointed it out twice. Say it once, Say it twice. But there's only so much I care to repeat:

"Just don't do it." It's not worth it.

RanMic

jfitzg wrote: »

I have never seen so many white knights before that apparently have never cheated at anything before and have no problem tearing others down... Its amazing since some statistics show that 75% to 98% of students ****. Good to see we have the 2% that dont in here!

LOL....I have to agree. Not saying it's right or wrong, but your statement is true.

networker050184

No need to continue going in circles on this one.