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Lots of issues raised and a lot of poor decisions all around, hopefully there will be some positive outcomes to offset the negative ones:

How “dongle” jokes got two people fired

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New2IT

t3ch_guru wrote: »

I wouldn't let that stop you from entering the IT industry. Not all shops are the same.

Thanks. Adria has gotten **** and death threats though, plus racist comments. It's scary, but change will happen.

New2IT

"Thanks. Adria has gotten **** and death threats though, plus racist comments. It's scary, but change will happen."

Wow. It's looks like a certain word is banned from these forums. I wonder why.

W Stewart

wes allen wrote: »

My, personal feeling is that "two wrongs don't make a right", and she should not have gone nuclear so quickly. The backlash is way out of line, though I agree that she wouldn't be able to be effective in her role at sendcloud anymore, so firing her was right from their perspective. Feel bad for the guy that got fired - he put out a nice apology at least, so unless there is more to it, I think his company kinda over reacted.

For a bit more background, I found this blog informative. https://amandablumwords.wordpress.com/2013/03/21/3/

I agree as well. Interesting read. One point I have to agree with in this article is that she perpetuates a negative image for females in the business environment that leaves you feeling like everybody should be walking on eggshells whenever a female is present in the office. Not necessarily because she was offended by the talk but because of her method of handling it. I've worked with some people who have said some pretty offensive things about women while their female boss was right in the other room. I thought they were idiots but rather than firing or publicly shaming them, the boss simply had the manager inform them to be mindful of the comments that they made. There's nothing wrong with taking offense to the comments but she handled it wrong and unfortunately lost her job because of it.

She seems like a jackass but I do kind of feel bad that the situation had to take such an ugly turn with all of the negative sexist comments.

Matavi

New2IT wrote: »

She is an adult and can discuss whatever she wants to outside of work and conferences.

I've thought about chipping in with my thoughts on this before, but I just didn't feel like I could really contribute in anyway until now. After reading New2IT's post, especially the quoted line above, I started thinking about her job. Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I'm seeing is that a "Developer Evangelist" is essentially a spokesperson for a company. Someone who uses social media and their fanbase as a tool to connect to the users and promote products and services. So isn't the twitter account essentially part of her business? She's essentially using what appears to be a private twitter as a platform for her work. So how is it not complete hypocrisy that she can make a joke about how a guy should stuff socks in his pants to shock TSA agents to what is essentially her clients, but two guys at a conference can't have fun together?

Frankly what this whole fiasco should do is slap companies in the face and make them realize that when it comes to social media and interacting with the clients on a more personal level, they need to be extremely careful. Both about who they hire and just how personal they get.

On a minor note, the part that pisses me off, is her need to brag and essentially self-congratulate. I'm sorry, but getting two guys in trouble at a tech conference over what amounts to immature toilet humor does not make you joan of arc, nor does it save the future of programming for women.

New2IT

Matavi wrote: »

I've thought about chipping in with my thoughts on this before, but I just didn't feel like I could really contribute in anyway until now. After reading New2IT's post, especially the quoted line above, I started thinking about her job. Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I'm seeing is that a "Developer Evangelist" is essentially a spokesperson for a company. Someone who uses social media and their fanbase as a tool to connect to the users and promote products and services. So isn't the twitter account essentially part of her business? She's essentially using what appears to be a private twitter as a platform for her work. So how is it not complete hypocrisy that she can make a joke about how a guy should stuff socks in his pants to shock TSA agents to what is essentially her clients, but two guys at a conference can't have fun together?

Frankly what this whole fiasco should do is slap companies in the face and make them realize that when it comes to social media and interacting with the clients on a more personal level, they need to be extremely careful. Both about who they hire and just how personal they get.

On a minor note, the part that pisses me off, is her need to brag and essentially self-congratulate. I'm sorry, but getting two guys in trouble at a tech conference over what amounts to immature toilet humor does not make you joan of arc, nor does it save the future of programming for women.

You really make some excellent points. Now I need to re-think my opinion of this situation. Also that job title, "Developer Evangelist" really bugs me.

Iristheangel

New2IT wrote: »

She is an adult and can discuss whatever she wants to outside of work and conferences. She has every right to complain about those guys. They violated the code of conduct at the conference. You start out saying that someone should just tell you when they are offended, but then you provide the perfect example of why HR departments and policies are needed when you come back with your "offended" remark. No matter what I say outside of work I am not required to listen to you say anything you want to at work.

Before someone comes back talking about she violated the code of conduct at the conference. She did not. The code was changed after her tweet to prevent future "public shaming" Those guys did violate the code of conduct and it was dealt with. That is a fact.

Everything changes and eventually people in the Tech industry will be required to behave in a more professional manner. Plus even now, juvenile behavior is going to catch up with some of you all at work. You may think no one is paying attention, but it can and will be used against you.

As someone pointed out, she may not be able to since she is a representative of the company. Many people have to sign agreements when they are hired by a company stating that they are a representative for the company on and off of work and will behave as such in regards to their public image. Especially if she is a developer evangelist and a representative of the company. Some of her racist tweets are pretty damn inexcusable and I'm sure she thought she was being funny.

As far as you saying that you are not required to listen to anything I or anyone else I say at work, I agree. But the method in which you deliver how you are offended is key. If you're that person that says nothing directly to someone and runs to HR every chance you get, it's a morale killer for the group you work with and people will be upset that you just didn't ask them to stop first. Now if you ask someone to stop and they don't or they are specifically targeting you for harassment, then go for it - pull the trigger on HR and hopefully they are fired.

While I definitely am professional 99.9% of the time at work, I have fun with the guys and joke around when we're working late or working onsite as well. I know my crowd as most people do when they relax a little at work. I'm also lucky enough to work in a different corporate culture than most are used to as well. My company is internationally based so we have things like "happy hour" once a week after work where company provides unlimited beer and wine and we adopt a different sort of attitude when it comes to how employees are treated by the company. As I stated before, I'm definitely not a sailor but things can always be taken out of context. I've been in the workforce for 14 years now and in the IT field for over 5. I've never been fired, written up, or warned for anything I've said so it's fairly safe to say that I've been appropriate in the situations where I must be appropriate in.

Iristheangel

W Stewart wrote: »

I agree as well. Interesting read. One point I have to agree with in this article is that she perpetuates a negative image for females in the business environment that leaves you feeling like everybody should be walking on eggshells whenever a female is present in the office. Not necessarily because she was offended by the talk but because of her method of handling it. I've worked with some people who have said some pretty offensive things about women while their female boss was right in the other room. I thought they were idiots but rather than firing or publicly shaming them, the boss simply had the manager inform them to be mindful of the comments that they made. There's nothing wrong with taking offense to the comments but she handled it wrong and unfortunately lost her job because of it.

She seems like a jackass but I do kind of feel bad that the situation had to take such an ugly turn with all of the negative sexist comments.

I agree that the negative sexist comments are a shame. With the anonymity of the internet, people can say and do some pretty horrible things. She may not be the model employee and handled things wrong but she definitely didn't deserve what happened to her after she was fired.

As far as the negative image for women, I couldn't agree more. I've been working at a construction site for the last week configuring new switches and routers in a high riser. There have been TONS of subcontracted construction guys around me and EVERY time I walk on site, people yell out "EVERYONE WATCH YOUR LANGUAGE! THERE'S A LADY ON THE FLOOR." They do not do this for any of the other male employees in my company or team. If someone yelled out "Everyone watch your language, an employee of XXXX is on the floor," I would not have been bugged in the least bit but because *I* am a female, they need to act differently around me than my male counterparts. This bothers me more than foul language would bother me and as much as I would like to snap at the guys on the site, I'm reminded of people like Richards who reinforce that women somehow need to be treated differently than men or "handled with care."

cpartin

The link to her blog post on the incident:

Forking and Dongle Jokes Don’t Belong At Tech Conferences - But You're A Girl -

I'm sorry but I just don't understand what she got so worked up about. Yeah the guys were making immature comments, but come on, dongle is a funny word. Everyone's perception is different, and I respect her right to be offended about what was said, but that entire post reeks of sensationalism and self promotion. The way she handled the situation was totally inappropriate and blown out of proportion. All she had to do was turn around and ask them to can the chatter. In her post, there are a number of outlandish comparisons, but her last line is completely priceless.

"Yesterday the future of programming was on the line and I made myself heard."

I'm sorry but I just can't take her seriously after that one.

New2IT

@iristheangel

Excellent points, plus HR will ask did you talk to the person, a manger etc. I didn't think about that when I posted, but that is how the real world works.

I don't doubt your professionalism for one second. That is why I was surprised by your original comment. Thanks for explaining in more detail though, makes sense.

Ivanjam

Beatrice and Benedick!

wes allen

Just a couple of links that popped up in my twitter feed today that talk a bit about the "bigger issues". I, personally, have not been to any of the *cons, though I hope to hit at least a couple this year. So, I have no direct experience in how things are.

Two hours of Totally Not Safe For Work conversation that will probably offend some/many/most people, but that I found entertaining and relevant, if highly irreverent.

Exotic Liability - OFFENSIVE CONTENT for defensive minds (Episode 87, trigger) find the link or hit up itunes.

Well thought out, with lots of links. Much less cussing, though I am sure there are people will find something to be offended by.
Storms and Teacups

And, as a final thought to all of it, saw these three rules today as well, and that pretty much says all you need to:

1. Be willing to learn.
2. Be willing to share.
3. Don't be a dick

bdub

New2IT wrote: »

She is an adult and can discuss whatever she wants to outside of work and conferences. She has every right to complain about those guys. They violated the code of conduct at the conference. You start out saying that someone should just tell you when they are offended, but then you provide the perfect example of why HR departments and policies are needed when you come back with your "offended" remark. No matter what I say outside of work I am not required to listen to you say anything you want to at work.

Before someone comes back talking about she violated the code of conduct at the conference. She did not. The code was changed after her tweet to prevent future "public shaming" Those guys did violate the code of conduct and it was dealt with. That is a fact.

Everything changes and eventually people in the Tech industry will be required to behave in a more professional manner. Plus even now, juvenile behavior is going to catch up with some of you all at work. You may think no one is paying attention, but it can and will be used against you.

Honestly I don't think women in tech are helped by things like this though. All Adria's actions have really done is to further cause a rift in the tech industry. Not saying what those guys said was "right" or "appropriate" but if her intentions were to somehow make things "better" for women in tech I am not sure I agree with what her idea of "better" is and from the looks of the backlash most others do not as well.

Things like this just further perpetuate the idea that women need to be handled with kid gloves. And as far as professionalism goes, everywhere I've worked in IT there is a fair amount of potty humor etc... but also plenty of professionalism. Even within the work place there are appropriate times for low brow humor and times that it is not. One example would be that you'd say things in a team meeting you wouldn't in a company update or other cross-team meetings etc... Same goes for hallway conversations and group lunches.

I think the idea that people need to be 100% by the book and cannot use some "foul" language from time to time while at work is a bit unreasonable and in this kind of industry, honestly, people will just leave companies. Especially in certain sectors, there is such a high demand for talent, people can pretty choose where they want to work.