MCSE enough to be a systems administrator?

sepisepsep

Hello. I just want to know if a freshman with an MCSE is enough to be a systems administrator.

Appreciate your responses. Thanks.

coty24

I know many a sys-admin without it, so I would say definitely no. But it REALLY does fill in a lot of holes career wise if you manage medium to large (Non-DoD) equipment. Separation of duties is why I say the last part. I feel I've benefited from it. I hope that is what your were looking for.

webgeek

Experience > Certs

Build a lab, book, and get a server OS. Complete the labs in the book to get an understanding then move on from there. I don't have my MCSE but I can do job since I've had hands on experience.

ptilsen

With no experience? Hard to say. You can pull it off if you find a company willing to take an MCSE with no experience. Otherwise, it is easily enough if you have a year or three of experience -- as long as you have the skills to go with it, of course.

sepisepsep

Thanks for all your quick replies.

I understand that experience is better than certs. But I'm just wondering, will the books and lab building at my home be enough to prove that you can do the job? If yes, how? Does it necessarily mean like in an interview, I'm going to say that yes, I do have experience with it since I built my own lab at my home.

Also, I was wondering how I am going to get some experience as a freshman? I mean if most companies will hire those with experience, how will I be able to start gaining some?

BradleyHU

it all depends on what the company is looking for. its more than just building out servers, there's patching, sccm(or other software management/deployment systems), scripting, exchange/lotus notes administration, sometimes even knowledge of SQL is neccessary....and thats just what i can think of off the top of my head without looking up some job descripts that i've seen...

sepisepsep

I really just want to work mainly on Active Directory. So my question now is how am I going to get some "experience" with the fact that companies will only hire you if you have experience? How can I even start gaining some if they'll only hire those with experience?

NetworkVeteran

sepisepsep wrote: »

How can I even start gaining some if they'll only hire those with experience?

You ease into it. If you have zero experience and only a certification in technolgy X, you may have difficulty landing a job that focuses on technology X. However, you may have better luck finding a job that's 80% technology Y (which you know) and 20% technology X. If you don't have any skills backed by experience, that's what entry-level jobs are for. I know someone who did very basic phone support after earning his MCSE. Within a few years, he was responsible for a large segment of a nationwide network.

Going with a smaller company that will accept the risk of hiring you to save money is also an option.

sepisepsep

Wow. I appreciate the story bro! You just gave me an inspiration
With that in hand, I'm sorry if I would be asking this as I'm a freshy but can you give some entry-level jobs that can lead to systems or even network and systems administration?

chmod

If you have experience to back it up for sure is enough.

sepisepsep

Well to be honest, I don't have an MCSA yet. I was just planning to get it but as I think about it, it won't do any good if I wouldn't have any experience first. I don't know but I think it'll be hard for me because my experience is only on SNMP. I'm currently a CCNA on a network and environment monitoring field. So with your opinions, my qualifications + MCSA wouldn't suffice as a sys admin, correct? So does that mean that in my next job, I should look for something related to systems in order to fill that gap and make a starting point?

Just to add something up on my experience, I also by the way have some experience with Active Directory (W2K8 ) as some of our monitoring tools need to be tweaked within AD.

chmod

In my very personal opinion you should ask yourself why do you want to study for an mcse, ccna or whatever?. Just look for a job meanwhile you are studying.
You need the knowledge to become a sys admin one day or luck to land a jod without experience but anyways if you get a job as a sys admin you will need the knowledge, keep working on both in parallel.

I took my first linux class when i was 15, i did not even think about working/look for a job i just did it because i like it because i enjoy the challenge and because i love the knowledge.

Just do it because is what you like and what you want, it might or might not be enough to land a job as a sys admin but you'll gain some experience sooner or later, just enjoy the learning path.

sepisepsep

I'm already a CCNA and I already have a job like I said on my previous post regarding SNMP, environment and network monitoring solutions.
Well, I like to be an MCSA because I love working with Microsoft systems. And yes, I'm currently studying it via CBTNuggets but I was just wondering if it's worth taking the exams as they are pretty expensive.
I mean would it be wiser to take a cert later after you land a job related to that or get it beforehand?

N2IT

Sure it can happen but it won't be easy.

chmod

When i got my first sys admin job i was 20 or 21, i had experience(1 or 2 years but not as sys admin per se) and just ccna and 70-290 exam(i was an MCP).

If I would have said to myself: don't study or don't take any exam because I won't get a job i guess i would have not succeed.

When i was younger I was thought that you study because you want to become knowledgeable and then you work hard to move up in the corporate ladder and to make money.

In my personal opinion i think is wrong to condition the possibillity to increase your knowledge. Just keep studying, never stop learning, work hard to get that job, there is no such thing as enough knowledge.

sepisepsep

If I may ask, what do you think made you qualified for the job? Can I know what your job was prior to becoming a sys admin?

I see. So motivated it worked for you!

chmod

I started my studies when i was 15 i was in high school my mom made take courses every saturday since i was 15 so i was learning programming basics and *nix back then, when i graduated from high school and before starting college i took a linux sys admin course and a comptia A+ class i paid for all that while i was working for a marketing company in the customer service dpmt.

I had a good friendship with the IT help desk guys and the owner of the place i told them what i was studying and why i took that job(because i needed a flexible schedule for college) one day one of the help desk technician resigned so i got the job as a help desk and one day the sys admin was having a problem with the fedora box(squid) he lost the password so i did a password recovery and adviced him to upgrade the kernel and showed him why the system was so unstable(based on the logs), i backed up the system and did it for him(all that i mentioned is basic stuff but he did not know it, he wasn't that good). When he resigned/left to work for another company they hired a contractor to help us out and i was in charge to supervise his work, request changes to him and manage the linux boxes(very basic tasks because the contractor changed the root password and modified our users permissions), i learned a lot and everybody was expecting me to know everything the other guys were at the A+ level.

Then i worked for an authorized HP service center/repair shop supporting proliant servers mainly HW stuff. Took some HP sponsored classes and learned a lot about servers.

I was tired of working there so i started my job hunt and i did not even get a call back in 6 months i was so frustrated but i kept working hard and i was completely focused on getting my college degree asap, then i became the hpux support engineer basically supporting hardware installations in hpux systems, a lot of troubleshooting. This happened because in the monthly meeting they saw in one report that i solved all the *nix cases and they were looking for a *nix engineer but instead they offered the position(by the way i did not get a pay raise just more responsibilites but more chances to learn at the same time).

I got a call back 7 months later for a help desk position i was not interested but i went to the interview anyways and the IT manager was surprised because of my previous experience so he told me that he wanted to have me as the backup of the sys admin, he said he wanted me there because of my experience with *nix and servers(all their servers were HP) and half of their boxes *nix. I became a jr sys admin.

I was working from 2pm to 10pm(i chosed the schedule to attend to classes in the mornings) and i was the only sys/net admin @night, just me and 2 help desk guys. It was very hard because it was a huge company and i did not get any training not even a network diagram so i learned down the road.
I still remeber the second day one customer service supervisor passed by my office and told me the calls to xyz nunmber are not working, i said OK i'll check it and get back to you when i fix it and i was seating there with a face of WTH should i do i did not even know where to start the net admin did not even give his cell phone#, there is where i learned to work under pressure and to learn as quick as possible, one day i thought about quitting the job because i felt i wasn't good enough so i stayed until midnight every single day reviewing their systems and reading books.
6 months later the main sys admin(the sr sys admin) resigned and i became the Sr sys admin(At least the title haha i had tons of things to learn).

I paid for all the classes from my own pocket been 18-19 i never set any type of condition to study and i did not even think about getting a job as a sys admin or net admin i just kept studying, picked a few certs and kept going and did my best in every chance i had.

My 2 cents: Just keep studying and learn as much as possible, get the mcsa if you want to...it won't hurt, work hard in every chance you have even in your current job and the effort will pay off one day.
Just think and repeat to yourself: i'll study to increase my knowledge and to become the best and offcourse because i like it, then i'll work hard to prove it and to get as far as possible and offcourse to make money.
Don't focus in the"IF" of your current situation: I'll study only IF i know i'll get the job i want and IF i don't i won't because is a waste of money or time or both.

IMHO

Good luck.

sepisepsep

Wow. I was just blown away by that post. It all becomes clear to me now. Thank you for this. This is a thread I'd be looking at for quite some time.

Psoasman

N2IT wrote: »

Sure it can happen but it won't be easy.

Agreed. A lot of times you just need to find the right person to give you a chance. I work 2 jobs, one is desktop support, the other sys admin for a small electrical company. Their IT guy left and my niece is the office manager. She told the owner about me and I came in and fixed a few things and he hired me on the spot.

I went through and documented everything I could and then slowly started making changes. It was intimidating at first, because no matter how much labbing you do, the first time you patch a production server and reboot and it doesn't come back up....

SteveLord

Careful. You can study and achieve an MCSA/MCSE and risk landing a job never touching active directory. You can't be picky with your first job. And you might sacrifice perishable skills just to get some kind of work. Labs are also limiting. Real world problems/failures/disasters are nice like that.

kriscamaro68

My advice would be to start with the Windows 7 tests. The 70-680 and 70-686 will get you exposure to the client side of things and can help in the understanding of the server side. Also obtaining these certs will be more beneficial to your career now as it would help land a helpdesk/desktop support position that could transition into a sys admin job.

Slowhand

There's no particular reason you can't start looking for work now, or at least as you're working your way towards the MCSE. You want a job working with AD, but you'll probably have to take something that involves either sitting and taking calls or working directly with end-users for a while, until you have the experience necessary for a company to feel comfortable letting you touch their AD infrastructure. The way I see it, you have a couple of choices:

You can shoot straight for the MCSE, wait until you're done and try to find a job, and then scrounge around until someone gives you a chance as a jr-level or entry-level sysadmin.

You can start trying to find some work on a helpdesk or as part of a service desk team after you have the MCSE, but you'll be running into the issue of letting your skills age, and eventually vegetate. You'd begin losing some of those AD and server-side skills you were working on.

You can shoot straight for the MCSA/MCSE path while you're looking around for work, trying to land a helpdesk/desktop support gig as you go.

You could also go for other, more entry-level certs - like something from CompTIA for example - while you're looking for work. Pace yourself and build up your career, then head for that MCSA/MCSE path and use it to propel yourself up to the sysadmin-level.

Akaricloud

In this market I doubt you'd be able to find a systems administration job with just a MCSE. Maybe 5-10 years ago but certifications don't guarentee you a job anymore.

If you had a year of helpdesk/desktop experience AND a MCSE then you would be the perfect candidate for this type of position. Pretty much you should be working on getting your foot in the door one way or another and getting some real professional experience. There is a huge difference between a lab environment, and one with actual deadlines, unplanned events and consequences.

sepisepsep

The declining of my skills is what I'm actually most afraid about. Just to reintroduce myself, I became a CCNA last October and up to now have been working on SNMP systems as support engineer for both clients and the research and development.

What I'm afraid about my Cisco skills is I've been actually seeing it really decline the longer the time that those skills become inactive. As for Microsoft, it's also one of my concerns in the future but oh well, just keep studying.

As a follow-up question to my main concern, how do you actually get around with your inactive skills so that you don't lose them? I mean in my case, I don't want to completely forget about Cisco and just have in my mind SNMP and Microsoft (in the future).

chmod

Sooner or later you'll forget something, specially when you study so many thing that are not completely related.

I don't even remeber how an exchange console looks like, i don't remember how to configure a rule with ISA server i haven't touched one in a few years, i did not like those products so i did not care about keeping myself up to date with the latest m$ trends.

Just keep studying the technologies you enjoy the most and the ones you think will help you land the job you want and that is the only thing you can do until you get a job that helps you specialize in something.

sepisepsep

So does that mean I really have to go back to Cisco just for me to not forget about it?

For best practices, can I ask how often do you go back to one technology which you have studied/experienced before just for you to to be refreshed?

chmod

If you think you need it then go back to cisco, i don't need to know about exchange or ISA i really don't care about fore front or any of the latest M$ stuff, hyperV or whatever you name it.

Why would expend moner or waste time in something i don't need to know? i have strong foundations in Firewalls and messaging with cisco and linux i don't really care about the M$ side . If i do it would be because for my own knowledge.

If one day i get a job that requires me to learn exchange, forefront, ISA, hyper V i'll do my best to learn it.

My areas ofexpertise are *nix, cisco and voip and i have a few years of project management experience i can't know every single technology that is out there, just stick with the ones i know and the ones i feel more comfortable if one day i need to go back to M$ i'll do it otherwise i won't.

If you understand VoIP you can learn cisco CM, asterisk you just need to get familiar with product, same thing applies for firewall if you understand how a firewall works you can learn cisco or iptables so don't worry about knowing each single technology out there just build your knowledge on a strong foundation.

sepisepsep

I see. I think I'll be building my foundation on Cisco and MS AD for now..

How do you actually build a strong foundation for all the technologies you know? Do you go about updating yourself with their latest technologies or just go back from time to time to master the ones you already know?