So-called tech talent shortage...

Interesting read at Stan Sorscher: Conjuring a High-Tech Labor Shortage

In summary[FONT=Georgia, Century, Times, serif], "...[/FONT]as a result, they have a "problem" with labor shortage, it's a problem of their own making [sic companies themselves]."

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Dakinggamer87

SteveO86 wrote: »

I agree with this. As long as you have the drive to motivate yourself it's simple enough to thrive in IT.

I did it. I've more then double my salary in the last 4 years.

I keep telling some of my friends to do this, and they tell me "I can't motivate myself" .. Once they leave works it all drinks and/or video games and they will complain at the spot they are at now... Last time I flat out and said dude if your not going to do anything for yourself stop complaining... plain and simple. They don't complain anymore.

I totally agree I tell my friends the same and get a similar response. I try to maintain a good balance of work/life so I can study and still have fun at the same time. It can be tricky at times since gaming is as much a passion for me as tech.

The motivation for me is I want to make a higher salary and live comfortably

chmod

This forum is a perfect example (not in general terms, but a lot of the threads).

People only wants to study to get a job not to become more knowledgeable, some guys in the ccna forum think a ccna is the hardest stuff in life and some users were happy when somebody posted that the CCNA was not longer mandatory.

If you cannot learn mcsa stuff/linux + or ccna stuff that. I know this takes time but you have to build your own future.

Most of the people only wants to study to get a job not because they are passionate about IT.

Take the example of irishangel, she is so passionate about IT, see how far she got in such a short time. She is where she' @now because she has work very hard and dedicated a lot of time to improve.

W Stewart

About7Narwhal wrote: »

I will admit that I did not read all of the posts on this thread, but I wanted to add my two cents as I feel people like me are part of the problem. People who need to get the first chance with a company will take lower paying jobs for the opportunity. That said, a company can hire someone in as a Jr. Admin, low ball them, and then train them to be a perfect fit for the company. After that is done, the company can "Promote" the employee and offer a higher salary... which is still lower than had they hired an experienced professional.

The expectations of corporations are high, and the pay is low. The only people who will bend to that kind of situation are the new folks in town. They have no experience and no real skills to offer for pay negotiation and they accept what they are offered on the thin sliver of "Opportunity" held out in front of them. Either that or keep looking at HelpDesk job postings that were clearly not made by someone in IT (eg: Saw a posting Monday asking for 3-5 years experience for an ENTRY LEVEL HD job...).

I agree, that's how a lot of companies do it these days and I was one of the people working hard for low pay because I needed an opportunity. And I'm not a foreigner, I was born here in America so I don't buy that foreign employees work harder bit. The problem with that whole scenario is once the employee finds out that he's worth a lot more he's probably going to end up leaving and you're back to square one. If you're one of those companies whose IT department doesn't keep good documentation and that one guy is the only guy who knows how to do what he does then you might find it difficult to pick up where that employee left off. My current employer made it clear that they would rather keep their talented employees happy and working for them a lot longer than see them running off in 1 to 2 years so this job went from being a stepping stone for me to a place where I can really develop as a professional and actually invest something back into the company.

it_consultant

The article really isn't about us. It is geared more towards programmers and the like.

melissa7779311

It's all about the person I agree invest in yourself

About7Narwhal

tpatt100 wrote: »

Well at least Apple, Google, Intel, Adobe, Intuit, Lucasfilm, and Pixar anti-poaching agreement became public knowledge last year.

How is that a good thing? It seems to me that an agreement like that would limit the employee's potential to remain competitive.

Akaricloud

About7Narwhal wrote: »

How is that a good thing? It seems to me that an agreement like that would limit the employee's potential to remain competitive.

I'd agree with this. Check out this recent article about employees trying to start a class action suit because of this.
Anti-poaching lawsuit against Google, Apple and others denied class action status | TUAW - The Unofficial Apple Weblog

ptilsen

About7Narwhal wrote: »

How is that a good thing? It seems to me that an agreement like that would limit the employee's potential to remain competitive.

It's not good that it happened; it's good that we know about it.

tpatt100 wrote:

Well at least Apple, Google, Intel, Adobe, Intuit, Lucasfilm, and Pixar anti-poaching agreement became public knowledge last year.

tpatt100

About7Narwhal wrote: »

How is that a good thing? It seems to me that an agreement like that would limit the employee's potential to remain competitive.

I meant it was a good thing it became public knowledge so employees are protected in a way due to labor laws and the ability to sue an employer. The way the things were going one might not notice an occasional firing but at least now somebody could think "I wonder why oh yeah that cold call I got".

DPG

You can't teach nor learn intelligence.

In IT, not unlike other industries, it usually comes down to who you know and not what you know.

ptilsen

I disagree. I have never been hired for a full-time job based on knowing someone, and less than 5% of the IT professionals I have worked with have been hired on networking or nepotism. I don't think my personal experience represents the exceptions, either. Most IT jobs hire on perception of merit. Very few people are ever going to exceed six figures without actually having a tremendous level of ability and qualifications to go with it. For few professionals above helpdesk level get hired without actually being able to do the job. Don't get me wrong, networking can get you a leg up, but my experiences have led me to the conclusion that true merit wins out more often than not.

tpatt100

I will be honest I did benefit greatly by networking one way or another. For some people depending on where you went to college having somebody be a fellow alumni can help you stick out. I know my military background helped open doors for me with fellow veterans. It is not direct networking but indirect, sharing a common background I guess I would call it being in a common fraternity.

dave330i

I must know some powerful people considering my success in such a short time.

There are cronyism and it's worse at some companies than others, but it's not that rampant.

networker050184

I've never known anyone at a company I've worked for prior to being hired. I don't think it's as big of a deal as some people make it out to be. Knowing someone to put in a word for you is always a good thing, but I don't think most companies are going around specifically looking to hire people with inside connections.

WafflesAndRootbeer

The two IT jobs I got because of "networking" were both disasters and I came out with the short end of the stick on both so I don't bother with networking and quite frankly, I find most people who work in IT around here to be a little on the disturbing side, so I won't socialize with them if I don't have to. I generally don't tell others what I do for a living because they would lump me in with those bad folks and I've had people stop talking to me once they see in their heads that I might be "one of those guys".

bdub

I guess its been the opposite for me compared to others here. I have gotten my foot in the door with several companies due to networking and many people I have and currently work with have as well. I am not saying I or anyone else received offers based only on referral and I know the positions I was referred for, I was perfectly suited for.

Where I work, hiring managers definitely like referrals, it makes sense to me. There are certainly those out there who interview well but do not perform well, and you tend to avoid that by hiring people who were referred.

Wilson502

All of the jobs I got in this field I got without knowing someone.

About7Narwhal

I don't think those of us who got our jobs without networking are the norm. Let's stop and think about our community for a second; TechExams. Most of us spend a lot of time learning new things and training to become better.

This drive could mean that we, as professionals, are moving up faster than people who we might network with. It could also mean that we simply don't ask or need assistance because of our "prestige." I use that word cause I cannot think of a better one: essentially, we do not need word of mouth in most cases because we can find great positions based on interview skills, industry recognized certifications, experience, and drive.

bdub

About7Narwhal wrote: »

I don't think those of us who got our jobs without networking are the norm. Let's stop and think about our community for a second; TechExams. Most of us spend a lot of time learning new things and training to become better.

This drive could mean that we, as professionals, are moving up faster than people who we might network with. It could also mean that we simply don't ask or need assistance because of our "prestige." I use that word cause I cannot think of a better one: essentially, we do not need word of mouth in most cases because we can find great positions based on interview skills, industry recognized certifications, experience, and drive.

Or it could be that you're anti social

Idk, I work with some pretty "prestigious" people who's qualifications would impress even many people here, yet many of them have their current job because of networking. I honestly, do not understand how having drive and networking are two separate things, to me they pretty much go hand in hand. Why wouldn't you use networking to your advantage to open up avenues that may lead to better opportunity?

I guess there may be some "pride" in saying "I did this all on my own" disregarding anyone or anything that may have possibly contributed to your success. If thats what your shooting for in life than good on you. Personally, to me it seems a bit egocentric.

dave330i

bdub wrote: »

I guess there may be some "pride" in saying "I did this all on my own" disregarding anyone or anything that may have possibly contributed to your success. If thats what your shooting for in life than good on you. Personally, to me it seems a bit egocentric.

Didn't get to where I am alone, but there wasn't any networking involved. My most likely next job will be due to networking.

There's nothing wrong with networking. It's cronyism that's bothersome.

it_consultant

I see networking and hiring 'who you know' all over this industry. While this might annoy, I think a lot of this comes down to the fact that I don't know by looking at someone's qualifications whether they are capable of doing the job or not. I am much more likely to hire/trust/work with someone that I have experience with.

Akaricloud

I would argue that it's less the networking itself that gets people jobs, but more the fact that someone has a easy to work with personality and can effectively communicate with others. I view networking as another way of showcasing a lot of soft skills, just like a resume showcases hard skills and experience.

bdub

it_consultant wrote: »

I see networking and hiring 'who you know' all over this industry. While this might annoy, I think a lot of this comes down to the fact that I don't know by looking at someone's qualifications whether they are capable of doing the job or not. I am much more likely to hire/trust/work with someone that I have experience with.

I agree. And I would also say it goes both ways. Being referred I have been able to obtain more insight into the position and the company in those instances. This is beneficial for obvious reasons, not only for the purpose of how to approach the interview and having a better idea of what to expect. But also when the job begins it usually takes less time to adjust. It makes sense for both parties so long as the position truly is a good fit.

As far as cronyism, from what I have seen that usually comes into play more when regarding promotions and what not. I think, there are definitely people who get a job purely because of who they know from time to time, but the true cronyism usually takes place in management teams.

010101

The worker shortage, IMO, is a meme created by big fortune 500 IT companies like Microsoft, Citrix, Apple, etc who want congress to allow more importing of foreigners to lower the IT pay rate.
You can't tell me that if the pay goes up for high skill jobs, that people on this forum won't retrain themselves for the needed skill in question.

Look at all the CCIEs. They didn't learn that stuff for fun.

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