Which certifications would you remove/add if you had the chance

N2IT

In retrospect what certifications would you have passed up and which ones do you wish you had done or done sooner?

Any that you did that were right on the money?

I'm just hoping to shed some light and share the experience of others on this community.

A lot of the new people are overwhelmed and see all these certifications and get caught up. Thinking they need to get X Y Z and Q along with L and maybe T R AND V.


I won't go through them all but the ones that provided no value for me

MOFV4

ISO/IEC 20000 F

ISO/IEC 27002 F

Project +

Server +

MS Project 2010 Managing Projects

Ones that really helped out IMO

ITIL V3 Foundations. This helped me land my first lead position.

A+ (This was extremely helpful when looking for jobs). It was practically a requirement for a 1/4 of the jobs I applied for.

MOS 2007 Master (MS Office) Believe it or not his has really helped a lot. People laugh at this but it get's the attention of a lot of recruiters and it's not that terribly hard. Of course I would starting eyeing 2013 or 2010, but depending what you role is this can be very helpful. **When I was struggling to find a job in Rochester MN this was one of main reason I was picked up on a tier 3 software support position.

CAPM - Certified Associate Project Manager is a neat one to get. Has it helped me get a job, NO, but it has helped me understand the PM world a lot more and that body of knowledge that is associated with it.

Out of my ~15 certifications I believe those 4 listed above would been more than enough to get the jobs I wanted. Experience ends up winning out in the end.

What certifications have you found valuable and which ones not so much?

broli720

I'm pretty selective when it comes to taking certs. I've always wanted to do security so I followed that path. I may actually call it quits on certs. I feel like what I have is enough.

N2IT

Broli I think you get to a point where experience and your reputation (body of work) takes over. You may be at that level now. I think for some it makes sense to keep tracking certain certifications. Dave330 comes to mind because he wants to be the an industry expert in virtualization. Others just want to get that dream job. Others are pure consultants like It consultant and Claymoore. They find it advantagous to get these certifications for a lot of reason, but I am sure showing compentecy is one of them.

One shoe doesn't fit all but I just thought it would be interesting to see what others thought.

wes allen

Sec+ was probably one i didn't really *need*, and I don't put it on my resume, but it was a nice warmup for CISSP, so in that role, it was worthwhile.

JNCIA-JUNOS will depend on where I go next as to if it will be useful or not. I dig the Juniper stuff and getting a solid intro to it was a good thing, but unless I end up working in a Juniper shop, it will pretty much go to waste, and I will probably drop it from my resume as well.

My two enterasys certs were for a client that needed someone to be certified, so that is the only reason I did them, and odds are decent that I won't be working with Enterasys gear again, so they will fade and drop off as well.

sratakhin

In my current role, I probably don't need Security+ and Server+. However, the exam vouchers I bought were cheap, so I took them.
Server+ is an interesting one, though. I work with servers a lot but there was nothing in it that I couldn't have learned by taking MS exams.

N2IT

Sratakhin I have heard that before abot server +. The only reason I have seen to get it was for doing break fix calls through certain vendors like Lenovo. It's a hardware certification IMO, nothing more. And to be honest Servers are so modular that if you can take apart a laptop and server is a breeeeeeeeze.

sratakhin

That was one of my intentions as well. I heard that Dell and HP require Server+ before you take their own certifications, so I figured why not. The voucher was only $75 and I was reimbursed by my employer.

N2IT

Makes sense to me.

dave330i

I don't regret any of the certs I have. They were for virtualization or complementing technology. There were some exams I've studied for, but didn't take or failed because at the time they lined up with my career path (MCITP & SQL track). Even then, studying for them have given me more knowledge about them, so it was a worth while effort.

N2IT

Dave this makes sense, some people align quickly and others flop around.

However I will say you don't NEED a certification to learn a technology. Your example about SQL leads into a great point. Did you have to take the exam to learn the material? Did spending the 150+ really add value?

Residual skills or secondary skills can start and stop at the understanding level. I don't see the point of a certification to merely compliment a skill.

broli720

N2IT I'm still a green horn lol. I just graduated last year and I've only been working really for 2 years. It's just all the execs or partners I see at my company don't have a slew of certs. Yeah some are necessary but I feel the ones I have are more than enough. More times that not, experience is what gets you paid at least that's been the case with recruiters who contact me. I really like my job and it pays really well so for me to leave means they have to pony up and they are not willing to do that with someone with 2 years of experience regardless of how much knowledge you have.

ptilsen

I don't regret any of my certs in and of themselves, but I'd trade them all for my computer science degree to have been done in the same time, without hesitation.

I wish I'd buckled down and finished my MCSE 2003 three years ago, or at least gotten the ball rolling so I could have slowly finished it. Being back in school means I won't even finish my MCITP:EA. I also should have done my CCNA when I had Cisco fresh in my mind. Of course, it would be expired by now and I doubt my career would have gone much differently, so I can't say it's a big sore point.

A+ and Net+ are useless now, but they were useful at the time. I can't even say I'd trade them to have worked on my MCSE, because they were the elective for my MCSA, so it's not like they were unrelated.

paul78

I probably am doing it in the wrong order, but I never had an certs until recently. I was one of the ones that considered certs as "flair" (as docrice had eloquently described).

But most recently, I find good value in going after certifications that peak my interest or fill in a knowledge gap. I do not regret any cert that I attempted. I plan to continue going after certs and I have no plan to stop.

And while none of certifications are necessary for my job or career, I find that it's a great way to stay current and for me focused on an end-goal - which is to pass the exam. The knowledge gained is usually very tangential to my job and rarely directly-related. But having the broad knowledge makes me appreciate the challenges of different IT functions.

Pat - I have been following your SQL tracking thread, for example, and I find it very enlightening. Even to the point where I downloaded SQL server to follow along with you. And I was toying with the idea of going after the exam. I tend to have a habit of getting distracted, like that. But because I already scheduled an IAPP exam, that looming deadline keeps me on track. To me, that's the real value of certifications by forcing me back to focus on the scheduled exam.

N2IT

@ PT no question about it. If I had to give one piece of advice to a young IT professional it is get your CS degree. Get a REAL CS degree! It will solve so many problems later. Our admins don't need MS certs they can learn it all since they have the core knowledge and on top of that they can program and develop solutions and automate with ease. Installing an OS or mounting an image is a simple task for these admins. The only downside is you can't get into a technicial IT role unless you have years and years of experience or a CS degree. There are some exceptions like telecom but they still require years of service.


@ Paul

That is really cool you are following the SQL thread. We are about to ramp up and start to crunch on a mock enterprise database. I am saving up some scratch to get the IZTIK book and start to run through that a bit. Carl, Unknown, Z, Robert and a few others plan on working out some sort of study/lab plan.

bub9001

I would love to trade the all my CIW's certs for either a MCSA or CCENT. I spent a good 6 to 7 months on CIW certs that the time would have been better spent doing job oriented certs. But for my B.S. I need to do them, well at least WGU wanted me to do them. I won't say I didn't learn something, but the return on investment isn't as good as I would have thought originally.

I do hope that WGU can slowly move away from a General Cert options for their IT degrees. There are better then other College's, in fact the one I looked at (Brick and Morter) had Zero certs in their IT B.S. degree. So WGU in my opinion is ahead of the curve for the most part. I would do WGU again with no hesitation, but just wish it had some wiggle room on certs. Like maybe have a pool and you can kind of choose from the pool. Mix and match how you feel will help yourself develop into the IT person you see in the future.

bub9001

N2IT wrote: »

@ PT no question about it. If I had to give one piece of advice to a young IT professional it is get your CS degree. Get a REAL CS degree! It will solve so many problems later.

I have my A.A.S from Brick and mortar, and my B.S. from WGU or online. I feel like a Degree is a good thing, even if it's not from MIT or some other overpriced University. For me it worked, my A.A.S got me plenty of interviews and Jobs to boot. I know that online degree's aren't as nice as B & M. But I know people that have Masters from B & M and are unemployed as I type. I believe a degree is just a way of saying "I can handle mind numbing tasks that don't really mean anything in the grand scheme of things"

N2IT

My apologizes if I came across like I was talking about MIT or Stanford, although that would be great.

I am talking about a true CS degree though, one that touches, development, TCP/IP, Administration, heavy in math, etc.

lsud00d

The desktop related certs (70-680, 70-681, 70-686, MCITP EDA7) don't really do anything for me and I leave them off my resume. I have quarterly goals through my employer and one of the org goals is to expand MS parternerships so everyone kinda pitches in even if not necessarily relevant to job duty...but, it's not bad for continuing ed and the year end bonus so I don't mind.

Also if my future jobs aren't Novell shops then my Novell certs won't do much good

I only list the 70-640, 70-642, Linux+, Sec+, and LPIC-1 at this time for space conservation efforts and succinctness of duty. Also I'll be getting MCITP:EA soon so that will clear space!

f0rgiv3n

I think the way I did my certs worked out for me in the end. Getting A+ helped me get a PC repair job to start my career. Then adding Network+, security+, CCNA and all the MCSA exams got me my first "corporate" level sys admin position. CCNA security was just an added "huh, that's cool" cert for me, no real 100% benefits came out of it that I'm aware of.

I'm still waiting for that moment for when my CCNP pays off. I'm still below the CCNP level career-wise but we shall see how things go.

The one thing that I do wish could have been different was my bachelor's. I have a bachelors of applied science "with an emphasis" in network technology. When i started my degree, there weren't that many network programs out there... let alone where I live (Idaho). So I had to go with sort of a hodge-podge degree that Boise State threw together. I wish I could have had the opportunity to take a degree path that had more courses that were applicable. The first two years at BSU were the only years of my 5.5 years there that had any use towards my career. I had to pretty much take "filler" courses to get my number of credits up to where I needed it to be...because of which, I ended up with an emphasis in anthropology as well (which I didn't know till the day of graduation LOL!).

To fix the degree problem I'm going for my MBA to build up my academic side as well as round me out as a professional.


My advice to anyone out there is to look at the market of where you are planning on working. I started my career building up the "jack of all traits" IT professional because around here that's what most of the jobs/entry level jobs are. If I had gotten my CCNA and that's all, I don't think i would have easily found a job. This situation though would be different depending on where you live/work.

bub9001

N2IT wrote: »

My apologizes if I came across like I was talking about MIT or Stanford, although that would be great.

I am talking about a true CS degree though, one that touches, development, TCP/IP, Administration, heavy in math, etc.

Never meant to call anyone out, I just don't live and die by the Pedigree of a said degree. If someone is looking to work or NASA or NSA, then the Degree does matter more. But for getting a foot in the door at the local business, a Degree with relative subject matter would suffice. There are plenty of Self Made Millionaire's that didn't have 2nd level schooling degree's. I believe that Hands on will always out weight a degree. IMHO

I have never understood going into $100,000 of student loan debt to get a $45,000 job? It's like tieing a boat anchor around your neck and trying to swim a mile.

Sorry if I come off brash, but I just got done with my B.S. and feel passionate about this subject. I didn't get my degree for anyone employer, I did it to model for my kids that bettering one's self should be a personal goal first, and a career goal second.

ptilsen

N2's point about the degree is not pedigree or prestige or pomp. It's about the subject matter. A BA in anything can suffice for getting your foot in the door and meeting most (or a lot, at the very least) employers' requirements. But what you learn in a CS degree is not stuff you're typically going to pick up in short order through work experience or cert self-study. I've already gotten more out of mine (which I've barely started) than I did out of my two-year IT degree and most of my certs. When I'm done, I'll have learned a lot of deep, useful information that I again, probably wouldn't (not couldn't; wouldn't) have learned on my own. At the end of the day, I can't do anything with my certs that I couldn't without them, and that's why I'd trade them all to have worked on the right degree when I was younger.

The degree itself is of course nice for the resume and interviews, but don't take that to mean Computer Science it's the end-all be-all. One could absolutely self-study the equivalent of a CS degree and get much of the same fulfillment. Free and cheap non-curricular resources have existed for a long time, and the fairly recent free online courses being released add even more to that.

As far as expense and all that, my whole degree would cost me in the neighborhood of $21,000 without tuition reimbursement. That's for a reputable (not prestigious, but reputable) brick-and-mortar school, and I expect what I'm learning to pay for the degree before I'm even done with it. There are even cheaper options, and I'd have gone for something online if this particular university didn't exist (or cost more) in my area. I don't think anyone here thinks you need to go spend $80,000 at Far Away University to get a usable degree and do great things with it.

N2IT

PT about time you chimed in.

I have been in IT or around IT for a while now and most of the heavy hitters have CS degrees. It's just a fact. There are fields that trend away from that comment. Networking comes to mind however some of the best networking pros I know have CS degrees. A friend of mine who works for AT&T is a unix admin and networking engineer. He has a few certs mostly Sun, but knows networking at a very detailed level.

When I was working for a manufacturing company our best architect had his CS degree from Virginia Tech. No certs nothing, but he knew all about MS products. He configured the whole SCCM suite for the company. He was insane with knowledge, again no certs. He was a demi god in the environment people with MCSE's etc would come up to him and he would school them on there wrong doings. This is when I realized the CS degree had some sharp teeth.

My best friend has his CS degree with an emphasis in OOP and he is on the business side now, but don't let that fool you. He has managed app dev projects over and over again and can write scripts and SQL like it's his native language. He dominates -

I don't say this to act tough or to cause conflict, but to impact the youth coming up. Trust me if you get a bachelors of science in computer science from a solid school you will RARELY have to worry about a certification. It's essentially a once stop shop.

You can continue to learn at even a faster rate. Your foundation will be SO solid that reading server admin books will be a joke.

Claymoore

N2IT wrote: »

Others are pure consultants like It consultant and Claymoore. They find it advantageous to get these certifications for a lot of reason, but I am sure showing competency is one of them.

And not just our individual competency, but qualifying for MS competencies for our employers. Those competency requirements change faster than the overall desire of the industry. For example, the Exchange 2013 exams that went live a few months ago are now accepted as an alternative to the Exchange 2010 exams for the MS messaging competency. This October, 2010 will no longer be accepted and 2013 will be a requirement. That will be before you start seeing a lot of job posts requiring 2013 certs.

As consultants, we also have to pass certain exams to qualify to deliver MS funded engagements like Exchange Deployment Planning Services or Desktop Deployment Planning Services. It's really the partner competency and funding requirements that keep me certifying in general and my taking certain tests in particular. A few that I had to take that I don't list on my resume:

EMC and CCNA - my CCNA is expired and I haven't been a SAN or network admin in years. I shouldn't be your first choice to run that gear any more.
Deploying Vista and Office 2007 - required for DDPS funding for a while. I leave it off because who cares about Vista
SCCM 2007 - MS was pushing an advanced desktop competency on my former employer that consisted of 5 exams. It was strongly hinted that any of us who passed all five exams by the end of that year would get a nice gift as a bonus. I already had 4 of the exams, so I decided to take 2007. I failed it twice, but passed it by the deadline. That nice gift never materialized, and I was the only one in my company who completed the track. I leave it off because I don't want to work with SCCM and don't want to give the impression that I am the guy you want to hire for it.
MCITP: Office 365 - I don't leave this off, but I see no benefit to it. It's not required for any funding or competency of which I am aware. I took it in beta, expecting there to be a requirement when it went live, but nothing so far in the last year.

Now that MS is changing the titles and adding a renewal requirement, I will ease back on the certs. I will pick a couple that I want to maintain like MCSE:SI and MCSE:Messaging and just stick with those. Now if I could just convince my company to send me to Redmond for an Exchange Master rotation, that would be a cert worth having...

Slowhand

I do wish I'd taken my studies a little more seriously back in 2006 or so, when I was still working at the datacenter and had all kinds of time on my hands to hit the books since the environment was pretty low-key and we had long periods of dead-time between major incidents. The plan was to knock out the CCNA (640-801), then finish up my MCSE Windows Server 2003, along with the Security and Messaging specialties, and then go on to the CCNP and possibly even look into some more advanced Linux certs.

If I hadn't been so caught up in other things at the time - none of which were really all that important - by now I'd probably be sitting on some professional-level Cisco certs, my MCITP: Enterprise Administrator and MCITP: Enterprise Messaging certs, as well as a slew of other things I probably haven't even thought of. I'd be able to focus exclusively on looking ahead to the 2012 generation of certs, and possibly even be knuckling under and gearing up for the CISSP by now. Hell, I'd probably have my degree at this point too, if I'd taken my after-work classes a little more seriously during this time period.

Ah well. As long as you can resist the temptation to get stuck gazing into the past, you can always learn from it. Now, where'd I put that 70-648 study guide. . .

bub9001

N2IT wrote: »

PT about time you chimed in.

I have been in IT or around IT for a while now and most of the heavy hitters have CS degrees. It's just a fact. There are fields that trend away from that comment. Networking comes to mind however some of the best networking pros I know have CS degrees. A friend of mine who works for AT&T is a unix admin and networking engineer. He has a few certs mostly Sun, but knows networking at a very detailed level.

When I was working for a manufacturing company our best architect had his CS degree from Virginia Tech. No certs nothing, but he knew all about MS products. He configured the whole SCCM suite for the company. He was insane with knowledge, again no certs. He was a demi god in the environment people with MCSE's etc would come up to him and he would school them on there wrong doings. This is when I realized the CS degree had some sharp teeth.

My best friend has his CS degree with an emphasis in OOP and he is on the business side now, but don't let that fool you. He has managed app dev projects over and over again and can write scripts and SQL like it's his native language. He dominates -

I don't say this to act tough or to cause conflict, but to impact the youth coming up. Trust me if you get a bachelors of science in computer science from a solid school you will RARELY have to worry about a certification. It's essentially a once stop shop.

You can continue to learn at even a faster rate. Your foundation will be SO solid that reading server admin books will be a joke.

Don't hear me wrong, I do believe there is a ton of value in a College degree.

I maybe a little of base with some of my comments, I am just stating my opinion. And sometimes I get a little over the top with my opinions.

There are certain people that can turn a bad project into a success, just by being involved with it. I see it all the time with a few of my co-workers. Certain projects look to be failed and they just snap it back into what it should be with a few hours of hardcore IT Magic. lol sorry but it amazes me when you see a train wreck ahead and it ends up being a beautiful sunset.

N2IT

I think 2nd level schooling (or school/University) can still provide a CS degree.

I attend WGU for my MBA and I am proud of that, so I am not taking shots at on line school etc. I am just saying in a perfect world if you could graduate highschool get student loans and attend a solid state school or some non for profit and obtain a CS degree you would be in really good shape.

You have your bachelors in IT you could get your CS masters. Now that would be a beastly combination.

dave330i

N2IT wrote: »

Dave this makes sense, some people align quickly and others flop around.

However I will say you don't NEED a certification to learn a technology. Your example about SQL leads into a great point. Did you have to take the exam to learn the material? Did spending the 150+ really add value?

Residual skills or secondary skills can start and stop at the understanding level. I don't see the point of a certification to merely compliment a skill.

I floundered around for a while. You don't need a cert to learn a technology, but there's a difference (perception wise) between saying I know SQL vs. I'm certified in SQL.

I have bunch of reasons why I cert myself in compliment skills:
1. It motivates me. I'm lazy by nature, so if I don't set a concrete goal I won't work on it.
2. As a professional service provider, my company wants people to be certified.
3. With educational fund, it doesn't cost me any money.
4. It's possible to make up for lack of experience with certs.

bub9001

N2IT wrote: »

I think 2nd level schooling (or school/University) can still provide a CS degree.

I attend WGU for my MBA and I am proud of that, so I am not taking shots at on line school etc. I am just saying in a perfect world if you could graduate highschool get student loans and attend a solid state school or some non for profit and obtain a CS degree you would be in really good shape.

You have your bachelors in IT you could get your CS masters. Now that would be a beastly combination.

I didn't know that you attended WGU. I was thinking you were taking a shot at online degrees. Sorry, I think working around a bunch of B & M degree people I am a little gun shy on the Online degree thing.

I do agree that a MBA would be really nice. But I am really focused on my CCNA right at this time. I did look at the MBA from WGU, but 3 more terms after doing 3 for my B.S didn't look all that exciting at the time. I might look at it again after I get CCNA in the bag. I will say that Certs alone can keep me busy for the next few years.

Zartanasaurus

Only ones I'd not do again are Network+, Security+ and MCSE:2003.

Network+ was a waste of time, but I took it and the A+ because you could use it as an MS elective at the time. I should've just started with MCITP: EA. I don't really do much of any EA type work on a daily basis and have purposely tried to distance myself from that side of the department for various reasons the last year. If you started asking me questions about FSMO roles in an interview, I'd be able to give you their names and maybe what 2 or 3 of them do. Thinking of leaving it completely off of the resume for that reason alone.

I didn't have any type of mentor when I started with this, so I just followed what the conventional wisdom said. Get A+, then Network+ then move into CCNA or MCSE. I don't regret the A+. I don't think it ever opened any doors for me. I've never worked at an A+ level job where my co-workers had A+ or it gave me the edge over other candidates. What it did do was give me the idea that I actually could get into this IT field and make a career out of it. I still say to this day that the A+ was the hardest cert I ever took because it was my first one. I don't think the wealth of training resources existed at the time. I took a class that lasted a couple of weeks and read the book they gave you. Then I just googled around for practice A+ questions. I guess this was a time when you could google for a cert and the first page wouldn't be 80% **** websites. In fact, it probably was't even google. Probably dogpile or hotbot or something. But it got me started and I'll never forget the feeling of nerves as I was taking the exams, back to back, in the old adaptive format. I actually had the confidence to go out and apply for tech jobs.

It's sort of a funny story. I wanted to get an MCSE ever since I first heard about such a thing. I was always into computers and wanted to be in the tech field. The radio advertisements and hearsay stories about "some guy I knew took an MCSE bootcamp and makes $80K now" didn't hurt. The DoL wouldn't pay for me to get MCSE training because the market was "saturated", but they WOULD pay for Novell certs (or CCNA). I was afraid to get the CCNA because I thought you had to be some networking master to even start on that track. And if you were a CCIE, well you could look at packet captures in real time and understand everything that was going on, Matrix style.

If I had to do it all over again, I should've taken the free Novell or CCNA training. Even though Novell was dying, it could've gotten me in the door to upper levels of IT sooner. Ideally I would've started with CCNA considering where I am now. I have no idea if I even answered your question, I'm just rambling at this point.

blargoe

All the certs that I acquired, at the time, were helpful to me. Currently, I am VERY selective in which certifications I pursue, and might not would choose some of the same certs at this point in my career (case in point, my expired CCNA), but I do not think any of the certs I have gained were a waste of time. No regrets.

paul78

N2IT wrote: »

...most of the heavy hitters have CS degrees. It's just a fact. There are fields that trend away from that comment. Networking comes to mind however some of the best networking pros I know have CS degrees.
.....
I don't say this to act tough or to cause conflict, but to impact the youth coming up. Trust me if you get a bachelors of science in computer science from a solid school you will RARELY have to worry about a certificati.

I cannot decide if I agree or not. Fundamentally, I have to agree. If someone has the knack and aptitude, by all means, go get the BS in compsci or electrical engineering. The formal knowledge helps and so does the structure. But I probably have also met as many mediocre IT pros with compsci degrees as well. I think it largely depends on the drive, ambition, and talent of an individual. If you have the right ingredients, no certs are required.

The reality is that not everyone has the aptitude to complete a compsci degree or even start one, in many cases.