Retention

About7Narwhal

Asked this in another thread, but decided to ask this question in it's own instead:

How much information do you guys generally retain in regards to certification objectives after the exam has been passed? For me personally, I don't see much of the 70-680 information staying very long after the test has been completed. I don't use deployment tools often and don't have the opportunity because of SCCM at work.

It seems to me like I will retain most, if not all of the major points regarding what tools are available for deployment, backup, general setup, etc but I won't remember the specifics like command line switches and the finer points of some / most topics.

Does this mean I am wasting my time? Perhaps what I am studying the wrong exam? Just curious if this is normal / expected. It just seems like I would use Google when the topic came up or the /? option to refresh myself.

Thanks!

NetworkVeteran

About7Narwhal wrote: »

How much information do you guys generally retain in regards to certification objectives after the exam has been passed?

Around 93% of what I decided to learn and remember.

It just seems like I would use Google when the topic came up or the /? option to refresh myself.

Knowing things, as opposed to needing to look them up, allows you to accomplish more in less time. I strive to avoid losing hard-earned knowledge by accident. I am okay with forgetting things when they become obsolete or irrelevant.

tpatt100

I guess I would describe myself as retaining an understanding more than retaining all the specifics. If it is something I do not normally do I will remember that a product can do something but I might have to double check to make sure that information is still valid. Software patches can many times change how something is done and what you studied is no longer valid.

networker050184

About7Narwhal wrote: »

It just seems like I would use Google when the topic came up or the /? option to refresh myself.

What happens when the topic comes up in the middle of a meeting and the director/VP looks to you for a correct answer on the spot? No time to go googling there.

DevilWAH

I am one who remembers ideas not facts. The fact is the Director is not going to ask me to write a configuration on the spot.

Sit me in front of a switch and I can happily configure it with out referring to Google if it is things I have done previously, OK i might need the ? or tab key a few times but..
An neither is the director going to ask the data that 802.1x was ratified, information like this is not needed on a daily basis and I not going to spend time worrying if i can remember it or not.

On the other hand I do retain a good high level of understanding of every thing I do, I can talk in depth about my own network,, even though I do not remember every little detail it is logically designed and I can picture it in my head if I want down to any device, command and data packet traveling across it.

In meeting I do not limit my self to what I know to be fact, but also what can can I predict based on what I know and have experienced.

If you really understand a technology you can determin the facts and limitations with logic. But just knowing the facts does not know you understand.

Michael2

No one can remeber every single thing about everything they study. That's what books and models are for. As long as you know what equipment is necessary to accomplish a given task, then you're okay.

NetworkVeteran

DevilWAH wrote: »

The fact is the Director is not going to ask me to write a configuration on the spot.

Being able to do this isn't necessary, but if you can do this, there are employers who will value and compensate you for this. (Of course, there are many other marketable skills once could possess in lieu of this!)

Michael2 wrote:

No one can remeber every single thing about everything they study.

Yup, that's why I aim for just above 90%. You get diminishing returns the higher the % you want to recall.

ptilsen

NetworkVeteran, have you ever taken a Microsoft certification? I'd be shocked if you could retain 93% of it without using it at least somewhat regularly. It's not concepts. It's all application of specific software, highly trivial and often not useful.

My answer is closer to 70%, at least as far as MS exams go. At least 30% of the exam is trivia or intuitive to the point that memorization isn't necessary (if it's even possible). Over time, I doubt I remember more than 50% if I'm not using it. If I use it, I remember all of it.

I've been a near one-man-army in a big Windows 7 roll-out for the last nine months, and I've done others at my previous job. I doubt I remember more than 70% of 70-680. I'm not sure I could pass it without at least a few days of studying if I had to retake it, because so much of what was on it has not been applied.

Networking certs are a different story. From what I've seen, almost all of the material on them is practical and likely to be used at some point in one's career. MS certs do not work that way. If you're not working for a consulting firm implementing this stuff all the time, a lot of the material will go unused and eventually you'll forget it. I studied CCNA as part of my AAS degree back in 2007 or 2008, and I actually still remember most of what I learned, even with not frequently using it over the years. I'm definitely rusty on iOS commands, but they come back to me every time I need them, without fail. I certainly haven't forgotten anything on broader networking concepts. Very different from MCSA. I've worked with Windows servers nearly every work day for the past six years, but I doubt I remember how to do more than 70% of the crap I learned for my MCSA 2003.

Retention does not, of course, exist in a one-dimensional plane. Time is a factor. I might remember 99% the day after I pass the exam, 90% a year later, 75% the following year, and so on. I'll remember more the more I use it, and less the less I use it. I think I'd fail the 2003 edition of the A+ if I took it again, because I passed it eight years ago and it was mostly basic PC trivia that is now obsolete (seriously, modern PCs used only a small subsection of the tech measured on A+ 2003). So on retention, I probably have less than 30% of those A+ exams, even though they were the easiest I ever took.

I'm sure I could pass Net+ and Sec+ again with maybe a day of studying each. They were 70% conceptual, 30% technologies that barely change. Those few changes would be the only reason I'd study.

It's all about what type of information you learned and how you use it. You'll forget specifics of implementation if you don't do it. You should never forget principles and concepts, not if you can help it.

NetworkVeteran

ptilsen wrote: »

NetworkVeteran, have you ever taken a Microsoft certification? I'd be shocked if you could retain 93% of it without using it at least somewhat regularly. It's not concepts. It's all application of specific software, highly trivial and often not useful.

The only MS exam I've ever taken was "Network Essentials", so it's entirely possible Microsoft is a different beast.

IT69

What I do that helps me a lot is when I am studying the material initially, I will keep a seperate notebook and try to fill it with everything I see as important or needed for passing an exam.....I organize the notebook in a way so that once I have passed the exam or learned the material I have a nice reference that I can read over and refresh the information without having to read a huge book....Ill read these through maybe once or twice a week and each notebook generally takes me between 30mins-1hr to read,this has helped me a lot in retaining and material and keeping concepts fresh in my mind. It is nothing groundbreaking I know but it is very simple and helped me a lot.

lsud00d

MS tests remind me of college exams...if it's not cumulative and I don't use it, most of it is out the window. The concepts will stay with me but over time, not much beyond that.

tpatt100

networker050184 wrote: »

What happens when the topic comes up in the middle of a meeting and the director/VP looks to you for a correct answer on the spot? No time to go googling there.

That is when my "lazy eye" looks over to my Google Glass and I repeat the question as if I am thinking how best to phrase the answer.

DevilWAH

tpatt100 wrote: »

That is when my "lazy eye" looks over to my Google Glass and I repeat the question as if I am thinking how best to phrase the answer.

see there is a market for them

tpatt100

DevilWAH wrote: »

see there is a market for them

Yeah I don't know...... I feel like I must chant "Consume Mass Quantities" when I saw this pic

About7Narwhal

Thanks for all of the great input. While I don't intend to remember 100% of the information I cover, I had expected to remember a lot more than I now believe I will. I could see how different topics may yield different results based on the information covered, be it directly relevant to daily work or some off the wall commands that have a niche role (or in Microsoft's case, 12 other, much easier, ways of performing the same task).

I am sure we all strive to remember as much as we can after we complete these certifications. After all, we spend a lot of time and effort earning them. It is reassuring to see that other more seasoned professionals also contend with this issue.

wes allen

Just for a different perspective from Situated cognition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia "Under this assumption, which requires an epistemological shift from empiricism, situativity theorists suggest a model of knowledge and learning that requires thinking on the fly rather than the storage and retrieval of conceptual knowledge." - think it is also called "just in time learning". I don't see a reason to burn cycles and memory on info I never use and can find quickly somewhere else. So - know what you are doing, but don't stress on remembering things you are not currently using. Plus, the more you learn, the more you realize that you really don't know all that much anyway...

Got this today at lunch, actually. Perfect timing as I start doing interviews and sending out resumes - https://twitter.com/WesfromAZ/status/322803334568370178/photo/1