Question regarding CCNP/CCIE

IT69

Had a quick question and as much as I looked for information I am having trouble finding any good answers, would be awesome if anybody knowledgeable on here could help me out....I was wondering, roughly, how large is the gap between CCNP-->CCIE and how many CCNP's do you estimate could be obtained with the study required for a CCIE? I tried looking through a lot of sites/blogs but still could not really come up with any type of answer except that the CCIE is on another level and takes a huge amount of dedication/knowledge....hoping I can get some idea here.

RouteMyPacket

How large is the gap between CCNP and CCIE? It complete comes down to the individual as everyone is different. Everyone has strengths and everyone has weaknesses.

As far as just depth, for sure there is a significant gap between the two as you are moving from a professional level to an expert level. CCNP takes a huge commitment as well, most gain their CCNA and stop there.

"how many CCNP's do you estimate could be obtained with the study required for a CCIE?"

Not really sure what you mean, both take time and dedication.

IT69

Thanks for the insight, I defnitely am aware that CCIE is insane and takes a lot to get the written/lab passed...

What I was wondering is, for example say someone has the CCNP:R/S ....Do you think with the effort/study required to get the CCIE completed they could finish CCNA/CCNP:V,CCNA/CCNP:S,CCNA:W/CCNP:W? Or maybe just two of those tracks? Or more than three CCNP tracks?

MiikeB

From what I have read, yes you could probably get 2 or 3 of those tracks done with the effort BUT odds are you are not really going to further your professional career by having a CCNP wireless and a CCNP voice, because you are probably either going to get hired by a large voip provider or a large wireless provider, neither of whom is going to care that much about the other certification.

gorebrush

The difference between the CCNP and CCIE is massive in my opinion. I've got at least 10 textbooks prepped at home for reading ready for a CCIE.

I'm hopefully attempting the written exam this year.

instant000

Based on the effort that I am expending right now, I could realistically clear three or four tracks to the 'NP level in the time it takes to get a single 'IE.

Based on my calculations, the time towards the 'IE would be well worth it.

NetworkVeteran

IT69 wrote: »

What I was wondering is, for example say someone has the CCNP:R/S ....Do you think with the effort/study required to get the CCIE completed they could finish CCNA/CCNP:V,CCNA/CCNP:S,CCNA:W/CCNP:W?

I'd guesstimate a CCIE push would take 12 months and a CCNP push would take 3 months. So you're probably looking at four professional-level certifications in the time it takes to earn an expert-level certification. I already have two professional level certifications that align well with the CCIE, and I'd estimate that's about the halfway mark.

Of course, most people do not have the experience for nor need for four CCNPs.

I did find value in stopping for other associate-level certifications.

IT69

^^^Thanks so much, I have a much clearer idea from the replies.

gorebrush wrote: »

The difference between the CCNP and CCIE is massive in my opinion. I've got at least 10 textbooks prepped at home for reading ready for a CCIE.

I'm hopefully attempting the written exam this year.

instant000 wrote: »

Based on the effort that I am expending right now, I could realistically clear three or four tracks to the 'NP level in the time it takes to get a single 'IE.

Based on my calculations, the time towards the 'IE would be well worth it.

All the best to you guys with your CCIE studies, it will be an excellent feeling getting those numbers.

pert

instant000 wrote: »

Based on the effort that I am expending right now, I could realistically clear three or four tracks to the 'NP level in the time it takes to get a single 'IE.

Based on my calculations, the time towards the 'IE would be well worth it.

I agree with 3-4 tracks as well. Honestly though, I think it depends way more on the amount of tests in the track, and not the difficulty. If you're taking NP tracks with 5 tests its different than the tracks with 3.

I really think this forum in particular makes the CCIE into something its not. The CCIE is not worthwhile to a person unless you're looking to work in an environment where it will be used. If you work in Enterprise or even large Enterprises, you'd be MUCH better off doing 4 NP tracks and learning stuff like security, wireless, design, and voice than you would be becoming a super expert and switching and routing. If you want to work for an ISP, reseller, TAC, or data center then by all means go for an IE, youll get a chance to use it. If you work for a large enterprise and want to be better at your job, then I think there are way better options for your time.

antielvis

Pert's comments +1

f0rgiv3n

I agree as well with pert. I have made the decision to NOT go for my CCIE because I do work in a large enterprise network. I do not plan on becoming a consultant or moving from where I live. If I lived in the silicon valley I might consider it but the benefits would not justify the amount of time I would have to put into it.

Sometimes CCIE is considered the "next step" after CCNP but it's such a huge commitment you truly have to do some soul-searching to figure out if it's what you want to be doing. The way I see it, a CCIE is similar to a Master's degree. It takes quite a bit of time and dedication and you don't want to do it unless you're sure it will be beneficial to where you want to take your career.

RouteMyPacket

f0rgiv3n wrote: »

I agree as well with pert. I have made the decision to NOT go for my CCIE because I do work in a large enterprise network. I do not plan on becoming a consultant or moving from where I live. If I lived in the silicon valley I might consider it but the benefits would not justify the amount of time I would have to put into it.

Sometimes CCIE is considered the "next step" after CCNP but it's such a huge commitment you truly have to do some soul-searching to figure out if it's what you want to be doing. The way I see it, a CCIE is similar to a Master's degree. It takes quite a bit of time and dedication and you don't want to do it unless you're sure it will be beneficial to where you want to take your career.

I heard a CCA put it like this

CCNP - Is like having your bachelors degree in Cisco
CCIE - Is like having your Master's degree
CCA - Is havig your PhD in Cisco Technologies

broli720

RouteMyPacket wrote: »

I heard a CCA put it like this

CCNP - Is like having your bachelors degree in Cisco
CCIE - Is like having your Master's degree
CCA - Is havig your PhD in Cisco Technologies

So I guess I have an associates degree then

RomBUS

broli720 wrote: »

So I guess I have an associates degree then

Well yeah makes sense...Cisco Certified Network Associate

down77

RouteMyPacket wrote: »

I heard a CCA put it like this

CCNP - Is like having your bachelors degree in Cisco
CCIE - Is like having your Master's degree
CCA - Is havig your PhD in Cisco Technologies

I would say its more like this:

CCNA is like having your Bachelors degree. Both get your foot in the door but only contain enough basic knowledge to help you get started.
CCNP is like having your Masters degree. Both show you've taken the time to advance your skill set through dedicated experience and training.
CCIE is like having your PhD. It shows that you have dedicated yourself to becoming an expert in your field and have the accreditation to show for it.
CCAr is like being a post doctorate fellow. Very few can achieve this and it is a lifelong pursuit of education, expertise, and wisdom

Depending on your background and experience, there could be a major gap between the CCNP track and the CCIE. In the Routing and Switching track, the CCIE blueprint covers subject matter material that is all encompassing of the CCENT, CCNA, CCNP and some of the NP concentration exams. It also tests your ability to expertly diagnose and identify problem resolution, not just memorization of commands or topics. As an example; just because you can configure basic OSPF, this does not mean you have the capability to debug and diagnose complex LSA filtering issues in a campus environment.

Yes, many of the topics fall beyond the scope of our daily tasks but as technology matures many of these topics could come back full circle into our realm of administration.

IT69

f0rgiv3n wrote: »

I agree as well with pert. I have made the decision to NOT go for my CCIE because I do work in a large enterprise network. I do not plan on becoming a consultant or moving from where I live. If I lived in the silicon valley I might consider it but the benefits would not justify the amount of time I would have to put into it.

Sometimes CCIE is considered the "next step" after CCNP but it's such a huge commitment you truly have to do some soul-searching to figure out if it's what you want to be doing. The way I see it, a CCIE is similar to a Master's degree. It takes quite a bit of time and dedication and you don't want to do it unless you're sure it will be beneficial to where you want to take your career.

I am finding that CCIE is a pretty huge step up from the NP, I am really impressed by people who hold multiple CCIE's and wonder what their study habits must be like...

instant000

I like the idea of not looking at where you are now, but at where you want to be.

I was at a point a few years back, where I had attained the 'NP on the old track (that included BSCI/BCMSN, etc.) and ... I just let all the Cisco certs expire, because I wasn't doing enough networking at the time to warrant maintaining it.

Now, fast forward a few years, and it actually would have been worth my time to have kept it up in the meantime. (Then again, maybe not, I wouldve just been a paper 'NP, well, as paper as an 'NP could be nowadays with questions designed so they can't be answered well unless you understand the underlying technology a little bit.)

As far as assigning levels to stuff, I asked the question on the Cisco forums, with regards to the 100-level CCENT, and the 200-level CCNA, and asked if they were renumbering these things like college courses, where Freshmen get CCENT, and sophomores get CCNA. I have no response yet ...

wintermute000

MiikeB wrote: »

From what I have read, yes you could probably get 2 or 3 of those tracks done with the effort BUT odds are you are not really going to further your professional career by having a CCNP wireless and a CCNP voice, because you are probably either going to get hired by a large voip provider or a large wireless provider, neither of whom is going to care that much about the other certification.

Er not really. These days its not uncommon for VOIP and security to name two be thrown at the harried network team. Having Ps in Voice, Security and / or wireless is only a win-win in my book. I can personally attest to having needed P level voice and security (ASA/VPN) skills at numerous points in my career. If I only knew R&S I would not have gotten half the jobs I've done (even if the voice/security was not the main component).


Not having done my IE yet I can't comment on the difference but I'd imagine its around 3 CCNPs = 1 CCIE in terms of effort and time. But the CCIE is defo harder whilst the CCNPs is generally going to be achieved given effort (kinda like grinding in an MMO if you get my drift).

pert wrote: »

I really think this forum in particular makes the CCIE into something its not. The CCIE is not worthwhile to a person unless you're looking to work in an environment where it will be used. If you work in Enterprise or even large Enterprises, you'd be MUCH better off doing 4 NP tracks and learning stuff like security, wireless, design, and voice than you would be becoming a super expert and switching and routing. If you want to work for an ISP, reseller, TAC, or data center then by all means go for an IE, youll get a chance to use it. If you work for a large enterprise and want to be better at your job, then I think there are way better options for your time.

Bang on. However I'd say its always 'worth' having a CCIE, but hilariously you may find having say Voice or Sec CCNP to be more valuable in some scenarios. Say you only have 2-3 years experience and you go super hard and get an IE. Are you likelier to find an arch job with your IE and 3 years experience, or a VOIP job if you have CCNP Voice? You see what I mean.

Personally I'm in a design role and on track to knock off the fourth CCNP (Voice) so I'm running out of excuses But from my ~6-7 years in networking, I've seen even say 10k endpoint networks to only honestly require up to an experienced CCNP level of R&S knowledge. Ditto with a 5k phones CUCM deployment for example. Of course the IE is beneficial. But if you were a senior CCNP in that environment for example (10k data, 5k voice endpoints), is it more immediately useful to do CCNP Voice or CCIE? Of course CCNP Voice, the IE is only going to give you marginal gains in that particular role. Now for the long term that is a different story.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: it depends LOL