First Day of the Week on Sunday or Monday?

hiddenknight821

This thread isn't tech-related, but I thought this'd be worth discussing here since most of us are working professionals that need to reach to a consensus.

Yesterday (on Sunday), I was having a conversation with my friend's father, who owns a metal shop, and he was asking me if I' am available next week to help him in the shop since one of his workers is on vacation. I told him that I can come in and help.

This morning, I got an angry text from him, asking why I haven't showed up. You guess it... I was very confused. He caught me off-guarded as I was not expecting to work today. I didn't realize he meant the immediate Monday. I was already ready to head out on a few errands, but I had to rush back home to change into the appropriate attire.

When I arrived at the shop, he cleared up everything saying that he meant the immediate Monday. He sees Mondays as first day of the week and Sundays as the last day of the week on the calendar. I stood there, disagreeing with him as I made my position that Sunday is clearly the first day of the week as the majority of us Americans follow the ubiquitous Gregorian calendar, and so does (or should) he. He's also an American native.

Am I really wrong here or is this the norm everywhere else too? I figured it was because he has this senior-businessman mentality as I have noticed some corporates have Mondays as the first day of the week. I find this really unfair since Mondays as the first day of the week aren't obvious to those outside the business circle. Now I just have to be careful with the promises I make on Sundays as everyone isn't on the same page.

NetworkVeteran

If I saw you at 12:30am on Monday and said "I'll see you tomorrow".. would you expect to see me Monday at 9am or Tuesday at 9am? There is a difference between the calendar day/week and the business day/week.

His statement is ambiguous and--as the business owner with something to lose--he has no ground to be angry or claim superior after realizing the miscommunication. Similarly, this is a lesson for you to always clarify!

Qord

Like you, I would have thought he meant next week, not this week. This could easily turn into who's on first.

Ivanjam

In most languages that I have some passing familiarity with, Monday is the first day of the week with Sunday being the last. English is an exception with Sunday being the first day of the week.

gbdavidx

calendar it shows Sunday

Asif Dasl

I thought the first day of the week was Sunday in America and Monday everywhere else. I could be wrong though. Why didn't he say "I'll see you tomorrow"?? that would have avoided any miscommunication.

HectorP

This topic always cracks me up. I agree with Ivanjam, in many countries I have visited the week starts with Monday and the calendars reflect that. Only here in the U.S. is the first day Sunday. One good point I have trouble countering is, why would the first day be Sunday? You don't rest first and then go to work.

Master Of Puppets

Here in Europe, Monday is considered the first day of the week. I didn't even know it is Sunday in America I just learned something new!

paul78

@hiddenknight821 - how old is your friend's father? Maybe it's a generational difference. I am in my mid 40's and I live in the US. I have never heard that Sunday is considered the first day of the week.

BTW - this topic does have some relevance to IT especially when it comes to global organizations that need to coordinate infrastructure changes. Where I work, all times must be communicated with timezone and date - and we frown on use of noon/midnight/12:00 as a time. I have even worked in organizations where all times must be communicated in zulu time.

dave330i

paul78 wrote: »

@hiddenknight821 - how old is your friend's father? Maybe it's a generational difference. I am in my mid 40's and I live in the US. I have never heard that Sunday is considered the first day of the week.

Open your outlook/win xp/win 7 calendar. It'll show Sunday as beginning of the week. Most timesheet systems I've filled out shows Sunday as beginning of the week. Any wall calendar will show Sunday as beginning of the week.

paul78

How funny... I have always assumed that was an odd anachronism in Microsoft products. And I configure the first day of week to Monday.

I will have to ask some third-graders tonight and to find out what they are taught in school.

MSP-IT

Sunday is the first day of the week, Monday is the first day of the work week.

hiddenknight821

paul78 wrote: »

@hiddenknight821 - how old is your friend's father? Maybe it's a generational difference. I am in my mid 40's and I live in the US. I have never heard that Sunday is considered the first day of the week.

He's in his mid-50.



In case someone wonders why he was angry with me was another issue. I currently live in his household with his family temporarily without paying rent. So I figured he was upset when he thought I was trying to BS my way out and take advantage of him.

NetworkVeteran

hiddenknight821 wrote: »

I currently live in his household with his family temporarily without paying rent.

In that case, let him be right.

newt.chapman

Technically I guess Sunday is the first day of the week. But Monday is the 'real' first day of the week. Thats when the majority of us start work isn't it?

DevilWAH

Look

Monday is the stat of the week and Friday is the end of the week. Saturday and Sunday are just bonus days

You could also look at it like this what are Saturday and Sunday?? (the weekend...), how can Sunday be the first day of the week if it is as the weekend

Like you though if It was a Sunday and I wanted you to work on the Monday, I would state "Can you work tomorrow and the rest of the week", I would only use the term "next week" if there is at least one weekend between now and then.. Even if ti was the saturday and some one said can I work next week I would confirm if the meant the coming week or the following one.

PurpleIT

I think "right" is irrelevant here; this is more about context and perception. "Next week" does not sound like nor imply "tomorrow". "Tomorrow" is clear and defined, next week can be ambiguous (as we have learned).

A similar issue is on Monday someone says they will talk to you next Friday. Does that mean 4 days from now or 11 days?

Technically the NEXT Friday is in 4 days, but most everyone I know would perceive the word next to mean "after this week", so I would expect to talk to this person in 11 days.

hiddenknight821

PurpleIT wrote: »

Technically the NEXT Friday is in 4 days, but most everyone I know would perceive the word next to mean "after this week", so I would expect to talk to this person in 11 days.

i suppose each to his own. I'd read next Friday as in next week Friday. This is why this Friday exists. I'd say this Friday for the 4 days later from a Monday.

And here's another good discussion. Let's say today is Wednesday. If I want to refer to two days ago Monday, then I would say last Monday. I'm aware some may perceived it as last week Monday.

ptilsen

It is (primarily) an American thing. Most countries view the start of the week as Monday. Without having done any serious research on how and why Sunday became the conventional first day in the U.S., I would say it possibly relates to the difference between Jewish and Christian Sabbath traditions, the former being on Saturday and the latter on Sunday.

On another note, there is an ISO standard that actually specifies Monday as the first day.

Regardless of that, I think your friend's father should have specified "tomorrow." I personally would have asked since I definitely would have found the meaning ambiguous, but one typically doesn't refer to "tomorrow" as "next week" even if it happens to be. I wouldn't say "let's hang out this weekend" on a Saturday or Sunday and expect my meaning to be clear to anyone anymore than I would expect "next week" to be clear on a Sunday. Given the difference between the work week and international opinion, I frankly wouldn't ever expect "next week" to be clear.

Xyro

hiddenknight821 wrote: »

When I arrived at the shop, he cleared up everything saying that he meant the immediate Monday. He sees Mondays as first day of the week and Sundays as the last day of the week on the calendar. I stood there, disagreeing with him as I made my position that Sunday is clearly the first day of the week as the majority of us Americans follow the ubiquitous Gregorian calendar, and so does (or should) he. He's also an American native.

He's letting you live there for free, you say? lol

This isn't really about who is right & who is wrong. It's more about a miscommunication & how you handled the situation.

hiddenknight821

@Xyro: There wasn't an actual argument or anything. I was merely disagreeing with him, but now I know what he meant. I wasn't being rebellious. This was just one big misunderstanding as he could have just said "tomorrow" or the "next few days." He wasn't aware of this common misconception, and so was I.

PurpleIT

hiddenknight821 wrote: »

i suppose each to his own. I'd read next Friday as in next week Friday. This is why this Friday exists. I'd say this Friday for the 4 days later from a Monday.

I think we are in agreement on this actually. Either way, it is best to specify.

Xyro

This is why I always clarify by date.

"Let me look at my schedule."
"That's the 13th, right?"

About7Narwhal

Sunday is the start of a standard week, Monday is the start of the business week.

Also, if he was asking you on Sunday to work Monday (the day after he asked) then why didn't he just say tomorrow?

NetworkingStudent

The way you posted, it sounds like he meant next week, not the next day!!

Doing onsite computer repair field support has taught me to follow some basic appointment setting guide lines.
I always get a verbal date and time confirmation one or two days before the visit or appointment. Then the day of the appointment I call an hour before the appointment to confirm.

bermovick

Sunday is obviously the beginning of the week. It's why Saturday and Sunday are weekENDS. Sunday at one end, Saturday on the other!