A + certified (need help on advice)

pod

6/8/05 which is 2day i passed the A + CORE with a very funny score (amazing i love this score). SCORE OF 666
:P n i passed the OS last week now at last im certified cause it waste alot of money doing the test,
cost $282 for 1 test which is a killer just 4 A +
im doing MCSE next week for 7 weeks its a training course, then im wondering if i should go for NETWORK + or CCNA
i've done most of the CCNA classes its not easy n lots of effort need to be put in, but im not sure if its work getting cause i could just get network + instead n wouldnt that be easier? i need advice
also is security + n server + worth doing? or is my MCSE way better than them which means i dont need to get them.
thankyou

gravyjoe

Obviously, the network+ would be much easier, but the CCNA would help someone to land a job much easier. Plus, you've already taken most of the CCNA classes. I really can't go in detail about this due to not knowing much about the CCNA.

The MCSE would be a lot of work, but that one would be worth getting too. I don't know anything about server+, but I know that the KNOWLEDGE from security+ is great to know, due to computer security being in such high demand these days. I've never seen an employer demanding the actual security+ certification before. Congratulations on getting the A+.

Ricka182

Do you have any experience? If not, then you can pile up A+, N+, MCSR, CCNA, etc, etc, etc....and you still won't have an impressive resume/cv. A lot of employers may look at your certs without experience, and then overlook you as a paper-tech. Certs will not get you a job, experience will. Certs only solidify your ability to understand the theory when questioned, as in real life scenario, the problems aren't always like the book or class says. I would go for N+ prior to MCSE, the knowledge gained will help quite a bit I believe, especially with the more advanced material.

pod

well i would love to have CCNA which will require heaps of time :P
im not sure if having the CCNA knowledge can i go for NETWORK +?
if i could i would get NETWORK + n if job requires CCNA then i'll look onto that later. But for now, surely im gonna get MCSE and (one networking cert, still not sure if its NETWORK + or CCNA) n im still not sure if i should go for security +
And yes experience matters heaps i know but without these certs i wont get any experience

jescab

advice on how to get experience after you get certs but don't have experience.....

Plantwiz

In what capicty do you wish to work in IT?


I concure with Ricka182! 9saves me from retyping :P )

jescab

What happens if someone studied and got MCSA/MCSE and really doesn't have much experience at all besides a little home network or so and repairing every family members computers.

Would it be hard to find a job in a scenerio like this? You have all the certs but limited hands on experience. In the case of this how would one go about getting some experience?

dsa1971

jescab wrote:

What happens if someone studied and got MCSA/MCSE and really doesn't have much experience at all besides a little home network or so and repairing every family members computers.

Would it be hard to find a job in a scenerio like this? You have all the certs but limited hands on experience. In the case of this how would one go about getting some experience?

It depends on what kind of job you want and the company. With no experience you obviously will not be jumping in as a network administrator. You just have to get your foot in the door somewhere doing pc tech, helpdesk, etc and get some experience supporting, troubleshooting, etc.

Plantwiz

jescab wrote:

What happens if someone studied and got MCSA/MCSE and really doesn't have much experience at all besides a little home network or so and repairing every family members computers.

Would it be hard to find a job in a scenerio like this? You have all the certs but limited hands on experience. In the case of this how would one go about getting some experience?

You'd want to find some sort of computer job. Having certifications will not guarantee a person a job and with the competitiveness of the market, I'd hire someone with experience and no certs over someone with only certs.....unless of course as a business owner I expected some growth and needed an additional person in a year or two. At that point, I'd hire the person with experience and shortly thereafter bring in a new person for mentoring.

pod

Yeh its true experience matter so much now days esp in the IT industry, because so many ppl jump into doing IT n when they get out no jobs, its because lack of experience and yeh i know that. So i guess getting certs is something good to do but also if u have cert + exp then that would be real good, but yeh now i dunno im still deciding between CCNA n NETWORK +
need advice on these 2, which 1 is better (ofcos having both would be great but thats too much time LOL)
cause ive looked at job ads b4 and CCNA is very popular in networking here in aus, but i havent seen much asking if u have NETWORK +
im not sure if it is even worth getting network +
well i guess working hard to get CCNA would be better but only if network + is still worth getting n it means u have network knowledge like CCNA then that would be great.

scot_donecker

What the?!?!?!

Ok first thing, if you had experience without any certs, how can you measure the quality of the experience you have? At least with certs you KNOW EVERYTHING you need to know. With experience, WHO knows what you know?

I personally would give an exam to both the "experienced" person and the "certified" person, and I could almost gaurentee only the certified person would be able to pass. It's just not smart to hire an "experienced" person without any qualifications to back them up. At least with a certified person you know what your getting, ya know.

Thats what I think anyways...

Plantwiz

scot_donecker wrote:

.... It's just not smart to hire an "experienced" person without any qualifications to back them up. At least with a certified person you know what your getting, ya know.

Thats what I think anyways...

Spoken like someone with limited experience and/or little interviewing know-how.

An experienced interviewer (and even a competent manager) can easily determine if someone's experience is worth anything by simply speaking with them. They can check references, they can give them a problem to troubleshoot.

A 'Cert' hold may have passed the exam, but do you realize how many paper-certs are walking around pretending to know something? There are A LOT. I have worked and still do, with people who merely read the A+ book from Meyers and passed the exam, but cannot figure out how to plug things in.

Sorry, but Certication is a nice tool, but not an absolute. I'll take a 55 year old MCSE over a 22 year old paper MCSE. Time does matter.

Neither is a guarantee, but I'll still take someone who has worked over someone who sat for a few tests anyday. The person who has worked knows how to do it. The person with the paper, thinks they know (and they may indeed know). I want someone who has done it and knows from experience it is correct.

Also, just because the MS or Comptia test 'recommend' a method for troublshooting, doesn't mean it is the most practicle in the field Time is money.

scot_donecker

I see your point, but I know many a person in my home town that has experience up the wazoo with computers (have been doing it since the very beggining) and they still call me from time to time to ask about new technology; how to install it, configure it, etc, that was all covered in my IT Essentials I class at my jucco. I had to know everything about everything in order to pass my class exams. I would think that in this case a paper cert like mine would run circles around those with just experience.

I also carry two years experience in running a small business network and diagnosing user related misshaps (and god knows if theres a way to mess something up they'd find it first, lol), replacing faulty hardware, and upgrading machines, but I honestly would'nt have the slightest clue about some of the more rare occurences had I not taken classes and became certified.

Ok, so lets say someone has good experience in the field, but there are certain things that they more than likely have never encountered, because they are so rare that only someone who is certified, has been trained on what to do in these rare situations. I mean if your certified at least you've been introduced to everything, but with only experience who knows what you have or have'nt ran across yet?

But thats just how I see things...

Plantwiz

I agree with what you are describing too. The thing is, there is no absolute answer. An interview would need to take place.

If it was a larger company, the lead IT person better be in on at least one interview and a smaller company, the HR person or Owner hopefully has a sense about when someone is snowing them.

From my experience, I merely wouldn't blanket hire someone because they hold a certificate. When I refer to certs, I'm rarely if every considering a college degree as part of that.

College provides some training and immersion into a subject...hopefully the student takes an interest and researches more on their own. Again, just because someone attended college/university doesn't make them the ideal candidate in a particular business.

If a person doesn't have experience working with others (departments, clients, co-workers, etc..) and they only see what they need to do...they may not be a good fit for an organization. Someone who has worked around, ground level and made their way up, may have a better perspective on the flow of work. The importance of tasks within an organization. Only being 'certified' or attending a boot camp doesn't give the job applicant any advantage other than stating that they may know certain material.

Unfortunately, my experience with many of the A+ people I have worked with over the years is they are more often than not unprepared to troubleshoot a workstation than other levels of technicians. Not because they are stupid, just under trained. Learning to troubleshoot take more than reading a book....it take time doing it.

There is certainly the possibility that someone learned how to run a Tandy Computer 20 years ago and never progressed...these people are equally dangerous (lack of a better word)... The techno-nuts I've worked with caught the technology bug in the early 70's and have stayed with it...and in my opinion are some of the finest minds out there. Again, just speaking from my little corner of the world.

**************


Just a side example:

20 years ago I used to buy my computer parts from a little hole in the wall store near Flint Michigan. Great place. Dark, cluttered, disorganized to the untrained eye....not a marketeers delight. Best conversations, best service best knowledge of anyone I knew at that time.

The fancy, brightly lit retail store an hour away....crappy knowledge, guys merely trying to sell you stuff. Not a one could read code to help troubleshoot squat.

Just because something looks pretty, nice and is well packaged...doesn't mean it is 'good'

RamsesK

what i recommend while you get experience in a company or whatever, assign as experience time the point that you work by your own giving technical support to some small companies and end-users from company to home environment if you like it to sound more professional, i have been working for almost three years in the field and just until a few months ago i was hired in a good company as IT Network Consultant, my experience before that as i said to you and to them when i was in the interview was i work myself and i have my own clients to give support and bla bla bla you know , however, certifications are important as experience, i have seen how people with knowledge and no certs are not counted and also i have seen people with certs but nothing in the brain to work in a real world but in great positions, keep working on your certs to get those helpful titles and also practice, work by your own doing some publish in your area and that way working and getting experience, by the way more than certs and experience what i feel is more important is know someone to help you contact managers, people in the field etc, i am sure of this, no matter in what field you work on, relationships and contacts are awesome helpfull to get in wherever ... not suposed to be that way but it is.

Regards;

pod

i agree with RamsesK, if some1 can get certs meaning they cant be dumb, they either have to have experience or study of a book. If studying of a book im pretty sure they can make up good bullshit in the interview n so on in the workplace to get his ass in there first.
eventhough experience matters heaps but getting into a good job interview is very hard if u have lack of certs, even if u have the experience, ur Resume can say u got experience but no certs then they will hardly believe that
im just saying what i think im not sure, still pretty noobie so yeh

scot_donecker

Good call, I think the only way to combat getting a job, would be to have both, I guess one could not be measured better than another (I never thought so many people with A+ certs could know so little about computers).

I would say, become certified and start out either entry level position or freelance (most small towns wont hire anybody, because they already have positions filled, so start out as a freelance tech).