In looking for a Masters program - prestige and quality, or interesting curriculum?

dmoore44

So, I've been looking for a good Masters program for the last few months (since the end of last year, really), and I'm kind of stuck. The 3 programs that really appeal to me (for various reasons) are:

Carnegie-Mellon: Information Security & Assurance
-The good: prestige, program depth, quality of education, NSA certified CAE
-The bad: have to take the GRE/GMAT

Northwestern: https://www.scs.northwestern.edu/program-areas/graduate/information-systems/index.php
-The good: prestige, quality of education, no GRE/GMAT requirement
-The bad: lack of program depth. There is an "INFOSEC" specialization, but it's really lacking, not an NSA CAE

Utica College: Cybersecurity Master’s Degree Online | Cybersecurity Education Training Program | Utica College Online
-The good: no GRE/GMAT requirement, program looks REALLY interesting, NSA certified CAE
-The bad: small school, lack of prestige, unknown academic quality

The cost really isn't an issue for me - I can rely on the GI Bill. So, the big question is this... which program do I choose? Do I go for known academic quality and prestige, or for a program that looks like it's super interesting?

santaowns

I dont think you should rely on others opinions and go with what your heart says. IF you want my opinion I say go for the best education possible, cause it may be the deciding factor some day between you and another guy. So Carnegie would be my choice

I wish you the best of luck in your search though

MrAgent

Have you looked at George Mason? The program I am in did not require a GMAT/GRE either.
Check out the Masters in Applied Information Technology
https://ait.gmu.edu/student/ms_curriculum/

I am doing the cyber security concentration, which will also earn me a graduate certificate along with the Masters degree.

dbrink

I'm starting at Dakota State in the Fall and will be starting off with Program: Information Assurance - Ethical Hacking Certificate (9 credits) - Dakota State University - Acalog ACMS and then moving to Program: Information Assurance and Computer Security, M.S.I.A. - Dakota State University - Acalog ACMS.

I looked around for a while and chose DSU because the curriculum looked interesting and what I want to learn along with the cost not being too bad. The program does require the GRE to be taken but there are a few conditions where it can be waived. I'm really not sure about the prestige of the program but I do know that they participate in (and won) the regional Welcome to the National Collegiate Cyber Defense Competition but not sure how they did in the nationals. They are also an NSA/DHS CAE.

datacomboss

I wouldn't let the GRE/GMAT stop me from attempting to go to Carnegie-Mellon or Northwestern. Considering you have a CISSP, I would think you would do OK on either test. I took both in the late 90s to attend graduate school and there aren't that hard.

instant000

Hrm, you seem to have graded them already, and still don't know which you like the best? After establishing your criteria, we could help you better.

Between those three, I'd choose Carnegie Mellon.

What's your undergrad?

If you want further information, you can get the full list of CAE schols here:

Centers of Academic Excellence - Institutions - NSA/CSS

I did an informal count last week, and I believe the number was 160+. I'm not sure that's such an exclusive club, and it would only seem to matter if you're getting the education in conjunction with some job that required that.

Here are a couple resources that might help you out:

DegreeInfo Distance Learning - online degree forum - The Front Page - A forum about degrees, which has an IT subforum. A major focus of the forum is distance learning.

GetEducated.com | Review, Rate, Rank & Compare Online Colleges & Degrees - An online degree search engine. (Of course, not all schools are represented in this portal, only a subset.)

sratakhin

Are you going to do your degree online?
I'm contemplating about applying to CMU... For $60k total, it's a much better deal than lesser known schools that charge $20 to $30k.

ptilsen

Money should be a big factor. The Carnegie Mellon program has both prestige and (IMO) interesting curriculum, but at a huge cost. If GI bill will really pay for all of it, it's an easy choice, IMO. GRE/GMAT seems like a really poor reason to not choose it, frankly.

dmoore44

instant000 wrote: »

Hrm, you seem to have graded them already, and still don't know which you like the best? After establishing your criteria, we could help you better.

In a sense, yes, I do already have them graded. I would love to go to Mellon... My aversion to the GRE/GMAT is that I really don't feel like adding another exam to the stack. My plan is to finally make good on all the Cisco training I had 15 years ago (went through the Cisco Networking Academy in high school) and take the damn CCNA exam - preferably before they change the format. And, since I'll be in Cisco mode, I'll be looking to pile the CCNA:S exam on soon after that. And, since I wasn't really planning on starting a grad program until fall 2014, I was planning on trying to get the OSCP in before I started school...

datacomboss wrote:

Considering you have a CISSP, I would think you would do OK on either test. I took both in the late 90s to attend graduate school and there aren't that hard.

Maybe I'm just psyching myself out over the GRE/GMAT tests. It's been more than a few years since I've taken a math class, or used many of the math skills that will be tested... so I'm really kind of apprehensive about that aspect of it. The rest of the exam, I'm pretty sure I can square away with reasonable effort.

ptilsen wrote:

GRE/GMAT seems like a really poor reason to not choose it, frankly.

Point well taken.

RoyalRaven

Do you know the inside scoop of these places directly? Talked to current professors, admins running the programs, current/former students, etc? Just because a school has a program doesn't mean it's crushing the subject material.

Prestige plays a small factor, but what matters the most is what you'll learn while there. The key to grad school is finding the right people to work with. They will be mentors, leaders, shapers of what you'll get from the program. If I was to re-review programs (now that I'm done), my most important criteria are the people involved. Harder to do with online, but if you're looking at any programs where the people are accessible, do by all means ask questions and get a feel for the day-to-day. That will tell you way more than looking at the online materials or brochures.

Getting in isn't usually the harest part. If you're totally ready to commit to the program, you'll likely work hard to get accepted regardless of the overall requirements...don't let those beat you up. Pick a program that will maximize your growth potential and find people who will best help you get there. Of course, interesting/challenging classes make a big difference too. Look for classes that make you push the boundaries of thinking/make you learn new ways to do things vs. just having classes that follow a cert path (for instance).

Perhaps another measure of a good program is if the other students are excited about the subjects. I know in mine, we'd want to hang out after class, hit the labs again, discuss stuff all of the time...essentially fully engaged in learning. That helps keep you fueled up for the long process of getting to the end result (that dilploma).

dmoore44

@RoyalRaven - I've not had a chance to speak with anyone from the programs at any length (i.e. current/former students or faculty). At the very least, given the reputation of Carnegie Mellon, I would assume they're at the top of their game when it comes to mastery of the material and curriculum. I would assume much the same for Northwestern, but the program seems so limited as to not really be worthwhile. The program at Utica seems like it would be pretty good - there are some faculty members who have received recognition in the industry... but my major concern is that the program might not be terribly well rounded (i.e. it will focus far more on the practical than anything else, and will wind up being more of an expensive job training program).

I'll have to keep looking around for students enrolled in one of those 3 programs - I would be very interested in speaking with them about their experiences. I know there's a guy here on TE that's enrolled in the Northwestern program, so I hope he'll post his thoughts.

But what about you - where did you complete your Masters program at?

robp12

Hi Dmore,

I'm currently in the Northwestern University Masters of Science program and just completed my first class. I really like the program so far, it's definitely challenging and I think the professors are top-notch. I haven't gotten too in-depth in the degree yet, but my initial reaction is position so far.

As far as which program to choose, I think the Northwestern MSIS degree is geared heavily towards students with a limited background in information technology. Most of my classmates were doctors that became in charge of their hospital's IT departments or some related functions, with additional classmates being in leadership functions of their organizations.

If you have any specific questions about Northwestern, feel free to shoot!

Valsacar

Depending on when you plan to start, The Georgia Institute of Technology/Udacity program looks like a good option (more CS than infosec though). Looks like it will be cheaper, prestige is there, and program looks pretty good. But it's not starting until next year.

CM is a good option, but GI Bill won't cover all of it, there will be some out of pocket expenses there.

RoyalRaven

dmoore44 wrote: »

But what about you - where did you complete your Masters program at?

Eastern Michigan University. Did all of it in-person.

will do better

looking for any feedback on the masters in info tech at northwestern. i dont have a finance background but IT is becoming a large part of my job so need to find a good program, any feedback appreciated or other course suggestions, thanks

aderon

I'd say go with Carnegie. There's not really any doubt they have one of the best (if the not the best) program available. If the only thing holding you back is the GRE, just go get a book on it. Study it for like a month or two and you'll be fine. It's actually a really easy test.

Also some other schools with quality programs:

Northeastern University: Very strong program. NSA certified CAE. Their CTF team is extremely good. Ranks up there w/ Carnegie Mellon's. Also, their MS Information Assurance graduates have 100% employment in their chosen field after graduation. This would probably be my second choice.

Johns Hopkins University: [FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]They have the oldest program in the country staffed with some of the best people around. Avi Rubin testifies in front of congress regularly and was key in exposing flaws in Diebold Voting Machines. Matt Green is an amazing cryptographer and is routinely quoted in the news when it comes to cybersecurity. Also an NSA certified CAE. Nonexistent CTF program (as far as I know).[/FONT]

Georgia Tech: NSA certified CAE. Real quality program, but it's highly selective. 3.5 minimum GPA cut off and they'll also require a GRE. Their CTF team is also pretty decent.

University of Washington: They don't exactly have the "name" of everyone else. But, after some research and looking at their class selection, their program looks really good. Also, NSA certified CAE.


Also, you might find this interesting. It's a 2014 (so only slightly outdated) survey/study sponsored by HP and conducted independently by the Ponemon Institue to rank the top Cyber Security programs in the US. It doesn't factor in Master's vs Undergraduate, but it's still pretty useful:
http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press_kits/2014/RSAConference2014/Ponemon_2014_Best_Schools_Report.pdf

And lastly, I'd look up your favorite security authors. A lot of them are professors at universities and if you liked what you read, then you're most likely going to like what they teach as well. Good luck! Let us know how it all turns out.

jdancer

Georgia Institute of Technology has CAE designation. Plus their master's degree in computer science is $7K. Did a quick look and saw they have info sec concentration with no thesis.

da_vato

Of the three you mentioned I would certainly agree that Carnegie Mellon will be your best ROI. I have worked with some of their research staff over the last year and think very highly of them; this is not something I say about just anyone.

However, to add one to your possibilities have you thought about Capitol Technology Univ. (formerly Capitol College)? I think very highly of their staff as well and willing to bet their curriculum meets your criteria as well. Everyone I have talked to that has attended their program had nothing but good things to say about them.

Christian.

Guys, the thread is from 2013. He probably graduated already

dmoore44

Christian. wrote: »

Guys, the thread is from 2013. He probably graduated already

Not quite - I just started back in August.

Christian.

dmoore44 wrote: »

Not quite - I just started back in August.

Where did you end up going?

dmoore44

@Christian.
I was accepted to the Carnegie Mellon program. I wound up applying to two programs - the MS:Computer Engineering program at Syracuse and the MS:IT program at Carnegie Mellon. I wound up getting accepted in to both, but in the end, decided that the program at CMU is more well rounded and was the better choice.

da_vato

Christian. wrote: »

Guys, the thread is from 2013. He probably graduated already

I completely overlooked the date of this thread... oops.

@dmoore44 - Congrats on getting accepted to CMU, I know they are very selective of who they admit so acceptance speaks volumes alone. Keep us posted as you progress through the program.

zxbane

Keep us updated, I'm sure this will be hugely beneficial to your career. They have an incredible reputation.

shoom

How do you feel the GRE difficulty was and does your GI bill pay for your Carnegie Mellon tuition?

the_Grinch

Carnegie was an excellent choice! They offer a government employee discount that takes it from $60k to $45k (if I remember correctly). Also, if you have the 9/11 GI Bill don't forget about the Yellow Ribbon Program!

Veterans Education Benefits-The HUB - Carnegie Mellon University

dmoore44

shoom wrote: »

How do you feel the GRE difficulty was and does your GI bill pay for your Carnegie Mellon tuition?

Ultimately, I guess the GRE wasn't too difficult. I didn't score as well on the GRE as I wanted to... but it all worked out in the end. If you're looking at taking the exam, I would stay away from the Princeton Review materials (they grossly misrepresent the difficulty of the test - their materials present the GRE as being easier than it really is). The Manhattan books were good, but I only purchased the 5lb book of practice problems. If I had to do it all over again, I would buy the whole set of books. They're expensive, but definitely worth it.

The GI Bill does cover all of my tuition. The only out of pocket expense I've incurred thus far is the $500 deposit upon admission acceptance - in the grand scheme of things, that's not too bad.

the_Grinch wrote: »

Carnegie was an excellent choice! They offer a government employee discount that takes it from $60k to $45k (if I remember correctly). Also, if you have the 9/11 GI Bill don't forget about the Yellow Ribbon Program!

Veterans Education Benefits-The HUB - Carnegie Mellon University

In my acceptance letter, I was notified that I would receive a 25% Scholarship/Veteran's Discount... I would imagine that's something extended for all vets. And I definitely took advantage of the Yellow Ribbon Program. If I'm being completely honest, if it weren't for the GI Bill + Yellow Ribbon Program, I wouldn't be in this program.

shoom

Awesome, congrats on getting accepted.