Job security when you are in your 50's. Tech expert / ProjectManagement / Management

pusher

I am at cross-road where I am having a tough time deciding on a career path and am wondering what would give me a better chance of having a better job security when I am in my 50's and 60's where looking for work (if I am made redundant) would be a lot tougher due to age discrimination.

True life examples here. Fifty, fired and fretful: Three chaps stare down CAREER MORTALITY ? The Register

My background: I am now in my early 40's and have been a generalist for about 15 years. My current work is in infrastructure projects and I really enjoy getting my hands dirty in researching and implementing new technology. However, I am adaptable and find learning, be it any discipline, enjoyable to certain extent. Certs I have collected are VCP5, MCITP Server 2008, MCTS Exchange 2010

My Question: What's more secure for an IT Pro in the 50's and 60's?

1) IT engineering / specialization / tech expert
2) Project Management PMP (real projects, not a one-person or small team project)
3) IT Management

Pros and Cons

1) IT engineering / specialization / tech expert
-Pros: interesting work, working with new techno, challenging
-Cons: can be easily made redundant by younger worker, keeping up with new tech (tough when you are older), update certifications

2) Project Management PMP / Maybe Security Management CISSP
-Pros: challenging work, middle ground between "regular" worker and management, work "might" be interesting
-Cons: can still be made redundant, not getting hands dirty in technology, maybe non-techno work

3) IT Management
-Pros: power, lowest chance of being laid off, usually makes the most $, making big decisions
-Cons: politics, non-techno work, not interesting


So, I thought, a natural progression would be to work toward the PMP certification which is also applicable to any industry in the case that I get out of IT. And then progress from there to IT Management if I can tolerate it.

Keeping up with new technology is getting to be too much, especially if one is not in the field of Database or Software Development where your skills are not made obsolete every 3-5 years. So, this is one of the reasons why I created this thread.

I am wondering whether I should go with:
1) Project/ IT Management route: start studying for Project+ cert and then work toward PMP
or
2) Tech Expert route: continue down the infrastructure road > MCSE Private Cloud, "cloud" (I hate this word), virtualization, storage, networking, etc.

Please share your experience. Have you made the transition from being a techno geek to management? In retrospect, what are your thoughts and feeling now?

Thank you!

treehouse

When I'm 50 or 60, the singularity may have occurred, in which case I'll be an unwilling energy source for our robot overlords. Failing that, I plan to teach this stuff at a college or university. However, at my work it seems like almost all of the consultants we bring in for special projects are in their 50s or 60s. PMP may be a viable route for you if you like traveling.

I can't speak from experience, so I'm at the limits of my helpfulness here. I'm on the other side of your problem (younger, not a lot of experience in my chosen discipline), and from my perspective it seems like age and experience is more valuable than youth and elasticity.

blargoe

This is something that has been on my mind a lot lately (I'm in my mid 30's). I have seen as many middle-managers in IT laid off at my last two jobs as I have regular non-mangement employees, so I don't necessarily see that route as "safer" per se.

I do think "Windows Admin", "Storage Admin", "VMware Admin", etc. types of jobs are eventually going to decline somewhat, as IT infrastructure becomes further consolidated, so my biggest concern is trying to excel at what I do, try to keep up with advances in technology, and try to have as much design/implemenation experience as possible. "Project Management" probably goes hand in hand with this. If I keep doing what I'm doing career wise, I want to be at the top of the heap.

I'm beginning to wonder if I should shift to something like database admin (demand for this has been high forever) or something more business-focused like BI.

paul78

It's good that you are thinking about this now. It's really never too early to have some longer-term views on your career.

I'm in my late 40's and it's a thought that crosses my own mind often. I'm in management so my viewpoint may be less relevant to you. I would describe myself as a generalist as well. I do believe that for longer term horizon, being a generalist may offer better career longevity.

The one track that you mentioned - project management - does also offer some good job security - IMO.

But realistically, I don't really think that there is such as thing as a specific career track that offers better job security over any other. It's really about making yourself relevant to your employer and contributing to its success.

Being in management can sometimes be a little better from a job security perspective - but lower-level and mid-level managers tend to be just at much at risk during any economic downturn.

NetworkVeteran

pusher wrote: »

1) IT engineering / specialization / tech expert
-Pros: interesting work, working with new techno, challenging
-Cons: can be easily made redundant by younger worker,

Easily? Are 30-somethings with an in-demand master's degree, a CCIE, other specialist certifications, good people skills, and a strong work ethic growing on trees somewhere? If so, the employers near me certainly don't know where those trees are hiding.

keeping up with new tech (tough when you are older), update certifications

It's "tough" at any age. With age comes experience. New technologies are often based on older technologies.

3) IT Management
-Pros: power, lowest chance of being laid off, usually makes the most $, making big decisions

Low-level managers typically don't make as much money, have as much power, or make the key decisions. That's left to senior engineers or upper management. And the people making those decisions--whether engineers or managers--will always have a target painted on their back. If you like management, go for it, but go in with your eyes wide open.

pusher

blargoe wrote: »

This is something that has been on my mind a lot lately (I'm in my mid 30's). I have seen as many middle-managers in IT laid off at my last two jobs as I have regular non-mangement employees, so I don't necessarily see that route as "safer" per se.

I do think "Windows Admin", "Storage Admin", "VMware Admin", etc. types of jobs are eventually going to decline somewhat, as IT infrastructure becomes further consolidated, so my biggest concern is trying to excel at what I do, try to keep up with advances in technology, and try to have as much design/implemenation experience as possible. "Project Management" probably goes hand in hand with this. If I keep doing what I'm doing career wise, I want to be at the top of the heap.

I'm beginning to wonder if I should shift to something like database admin (demand for this has been high forever) or something more business-focused like BI.

Exactly, with "cloud" computing methodology, once a private or public cloud is setup, users (development, IT, or even end users) can request to spin up an IT service (e.g. appropriately sized vm with sql server) from an-easy-to-use front end. Most of the work for this environment is done by the person who sets it up and that could be an outside consultant or outsourced company. The only in-house IT staff would just be tech support.

IT is in the business making everything more efficient which is self cannibalistic.

In the future, it seems to me that a typical IT department would only comprise of the IT Manager and tech support. Because once the infrastructure stuff is setup with the "cloud" computing methodology, anyone can provision an IT service for business need with just a few clicks. If something is broken, just call the consultant or outsourced company that set it up.

So, this is why I am looking out for my career path as getting a bunch of non-relevant certifications would be a waste of time and effort.

Thank you everyone for your replies. Please keep them coming.

NetworkVeteran

[QUOTE="

Exactly, with "cloud" computing methodology, once a private or public cloud is setup, users (development, IT, or even end users) can request to spin up an IT service (e.g. appropriately sized vm with sql server) from an-easy-to-use front end. Most of the work for this environment is done by the person who sets it up and that could be an outside consultant or outsourced company. The only in-house IT staff would just be tech support

A network is still required to connect all the employees to their data, whether the data is hosted on a cloud, VMs, or physical servers. This change may be a threat to you, but it is not a threat to many domains of technical expertise. While this may be a wake-up call that you need to adapt, it doesn't indicate you need to adapt in a non-technical way, unless you prefer to be non-technical.

paul78

pusher wrote: »

In the future, it seems to me that a typical IT department would only comprise of the IT Manager and tech support.

I'm not sure that I agree with that premise. The concept of cloud computing isn't new and has been around for over twenty years, just because some marketing person came up with a new catchier phase doesn't mean that IT jobs will be reduced.

I actually believe the opposite, the increased delivery of "cloud services" will create even greater opportunities and innovation. What really enabled more of these kinds of services are the higher and cheaper bandwidth that can enable richer services. The creation and delivery of these services have actually created more jobs.

Yes - I agree - gone are the days when small and medium businesses needed to have their own IT staff. But that trend started 10 years ago when small MSP's started to crop-up to deliver out-sourced IT services.

Cloud services may allow for one-click provisioning. But companies that deliver those services need competent and skilled IT professionals to deliver that click.

datgirl

OP, I can commiserate with you, as I am a "woman of a certain age". Thus for me the solution has been academia. While those that can, do, and those that can't, teach, I am at the point in my life where as Danny Glover said "I'm getting too old for this $h!t," at least physically.

paul78

datgirl wrote: »

...Thus for me the solution has been academia. While those that can, do, and those that can't, teach...

I have always had a high degree of respect for those that teach. I considered it at one point in my own career and realized that I lacked the talent and patience for this noble profession. Regardless of the level of academia - middle school, high school, college, vocational - teachers nurture the youth of the future and advance our civilization.

Thanks for being a teacher..

datgirl

Paul, thank you for your kind and thoughtful response. There are moments when teaching can feel like a thankless job, and we may question why we are doing it. However, when a student has that aha moment, that moment of Zen when they comprehend the subject or topic at hand, then it becomes all worth it.And being appreciated by the public is heart-warming as well. Thank you again.

[QUOTE=paul78;761087]I have always had a high degree of respect for those that teach. I considered it at one point in my own career and realized that I lacked the talent and patience for this noble profession. Regardless of the level of academia - middle school, high school, college, vocational - teachers nurture the youth of the future and advance our civilization. Thanks for being a teacher..

JDMurray

As the impossibility of retirement becomes more real to me, selling everything I own, donning a saffron robe, and wandering the Earth attempting to help my fellow man secure his computers and data centers sounds like a viable option to me. I think that I'm closer to that point than I'd care to admit.

paul78

What??? No shaving your head to go with the robes???

JDMurray

Dude, have a look at my picture on my LinkedIn page. I'm already there!

instant000

I have a great appreciation of teachers, especially those who have worked outside of academia before, as it helps them bring a fresh perspective.

If I could pull a gig with a steadier schedule, I'd look into teaching some entry level technical classes for a community college. (Definitely not for the money, because the pay for adjuncts can be pretty low, but it would be a way to invest in others.)

010101

pusher wrote: »

My Question: What's more secure for an IT Pro in the 50's and 60's?

I pay a lot of attention to this subject because I think ageism in IT is a major problem.

One thing I try to notice is who I see that's older and what possitions they're in today.
For example, I know a very high-end EMC engineer. He's retiring this year(mid-60s).
I know another high-end consultant who's kind of a generalist(knows tons about tons). He's early 50's. Works crazy hard and crazy hours.
I've met a lot of instructors who are in their 50's. The older ones always seem to be super high-level.

I know 2 guys who are in Help-Desk in their 50's. Both WERE IT Managers prior to getting laid off with no REAL skills......

Basically what I've seen, most people that I know in IT with good jobs who are older work their butts off. THAT seems to me to be the key to longevity.

pusher wrote: »

3) IT Management
-Pros: power, lowest chance of being laid off, usually makes the most $, making big decisions
-Cons: politics, non-techno work, not interesting

I turned down being the 'IT Manager' where I work.
As mentioned above, I've seen first hand 2 IT Managers get laid off and they had no real skills to fall back on.
That would be my main concern.
IT Managers positions are usually promotions from within, and they really don't require a unique skill.
What I mean by unique skill, you don't gain something by being an IT Manager for 10 years that guarantees you'll find another IT Manager job. It's just another manager really...
Both of the IT Managers mentioned above ended up going into Help-Desk after losing their job, making about 1/3rd of what they made before.

JDMurray wrote: »

As the impossibility of retirement becomes more real to me, selling everything I own, donning a saffron robe, and wandering the Earth attempting to help my fellow man secure his computers and data centers sounds like a viable option to me. I think that I'm closer to that point than I'd care to admit.

I'm with you. I live a very frugal life spending under 50% of what I make because I know this ride isn't necessarly forever.
I make good money today. 10 years from now, it might be another story.

NetworkVeteran wrote: »

A network is still required to connect all the employees to their data, whether the data is hosted on a cloud, VMs, or physical servers. This change may be a threat to you, but it is not a threat to many domains of technical expertise. While this may be a wake-up call that you need to adapt, it doesn't indicate you need to adapt in a non-technical way, unless you prefer to be non-technical.

True, but....
So say most Network Admin(Windows/Unix/VM/etc) job go away...
There's some really smart people in that space. Guess what they're going to do when faced with unemployment.
They're going to get a CCNP/CCIE and fight for your job. If it takes them 4 years to do it, they will.
Then what?
The competion for the remaining jobs will be more feirce and the pay will come down.
So while technically you're correct, if 20-30% of IT jobs go away, it will become hard on everyone.

All that said, I don't expect Fortune500 to use the cloud at all. Way too risky.

I also think Amazons Cloud will get hacked in the next 5 years and thousands of companies will lose MAJOR data all at the same time. Way too big of a target for it not to happen.


.

sparob

government gs jobs offer all kinds of job security to the older workers, little to none to the newer guys. I would go look for some jobs on usajobs.gov if you want job security.
Aside from that there is no one certification to help you the most. Just get really specialized and good at something then get the cert for it. Contracting based work maybe better for you then. If they fire you oh well you get paid!

sparob

010101 wrote: »

I pay a lot of attention to this subject because I think ageism in IT is a major problem.

One thing I try to notice is who I see that's older and what possitions they're in today.
For example, I know a very high-end EMC engineer. He's retiring this year(mid-60s).
I know another high-end consultant who's kind of a generalist(knows tons about tons). He's early 50's. Works crazy hard and crazy hours.
I've met a lot of instructors who are in their 50's. The older ones always seem to be super high-level.

I know 2 guys who are in Help-Desk in their 50's. Both WERE IT Managers prior to getting laid off with no REAL skills......

Basically what I've seen, most people that I know in IT with good jobs who are older work their butts off. THAT seems to me to be the key to longevity.





I turned down being the 'IT Manager' where I work.
As mentioned above, I've seen first hand 2 IT Managers get laid off and they had no real skills to fall back on.
That would be my main concern.
IT Managers positions are usually promotions from within, and they really don't require a unique skill.
What I mean by unique skill, you don't gain something by being an IT Manager for 10 years that guarantees you'll find another IT Manager job. It's just another manager really...
Both of the IT Managers mentioned above ended up going into Help-Desk after losing their job, making about 1/3rd of what they made before.




I'm with you. I live a very frugal life spending under 50% of what I make because I know this ride isn't necessarly forever.
I make good money today. 10 years from now, it might be another story.





True, but....
So say most Network Admin(Windows/Unix/VM/etc) job go away...
There's some really smart people in that space. Guess what they're going to do when faced with unemployment.
They're going to get a CCNP/CCIE and fight for your job. If it takes them 4 years to do it, they will.
Then what?
The competion for the remaining jobs will be more feirce and the pay will come down.
So while technically you're correct, if 20-30% of IT jobs go away, it will become hard on everyone.

All that said, I don't expect Fortune500 to use the cloud at all. Way too risky.

I also think Amazons Cloud will get hacked in the next 5 years and thousands of companies will lose MAJOR data all at the same time. Way too big of a target for it not to happen.


.

Lots of "I THINKS", in there. I sure hope Amazon cloud gets hacked being a cyber guy. Will help me loads getting a job.

DB Cooper

If IT fails me, I'll become a Chinese fighter pilot. Nothing to worry about when you have a solid plan B.

Raisin

Where I work we have several 50-60 year old's. Some of them do a great job of staying current in the tech field and are valued for their years of knowledge. Everyone is happy to have them around and nobody would consider getting rid of them because they'd be hard to replace.

Unfortunately we also have the older IT guys who don't stay current. They don't take classes, pursue certifications, study tech books, or experiment with new technologies. If you try and suggest that they should, they get pissed off and tell you that they can't possibly find time to do that stuff. They end up being the first to be laid off, and instead of owning up to the fact that they allowed themselves to become obsolete they'll blame it on ageism instead.

jibbajabba

DB Cooper wrote: »

If IT fails me, I'll become a Chinese fighter pilot. Nothing to worry about when you have a solid plan B.

Oh, like the idea ... or Seppuku teacher might work too ...

paul78

010101 wrote: »

IT Managers positions are usually promotions from within, and they really don't require a unique skill.
What I mean by unique skill, you don't gain something by being an IT Manager for 10 years that guarantees you'll find another IT Manager job. It's just another manager really...

Since you have never been an IT manager, I'm curious on what basis you make that statement?

For-profit companies hire and compensate their employees based on the value that the employee bring to increase the profitability of the company. In my own experience, IT managers will typically have a much higher compensation level than an individual contributor - specifically because they bring specialized skills. Those skills may not be technical in nature but are valued for different reasons.

Raisin wrote:

Unfortunately we also have the older IT guys who don't stay current.

That really is the key point. And it doesn't really matter if someone is in their 20's or 50/60's. It's about staying relevant and being able to contribute to the success of a company if you want to be employed by that company. And I say that it doesn't matter if you are an individual contributor or a manager.

@OP - Your comment about getting some project management experience because it's a transferable skill in many industries is great. That will certainly reduce career risks. Also, I would add that it is an area that is less likely to be labor arbitraged to another country.

Architect192

I'm 43 and have been going through the same line of thinking for a few years. I don't see myself still designing solutions in 22 years (retirement at 65), keeping up with the latest techs in a "detailed/hands-on" kind of way. I am currently taking a management course @ university and being a tech guy, I find a lot of it really boring. On the other hand, some of the content is very interesting and opened up quite a bit of self-questionning about my motivations and my perception of management.

I currently work for a great manager, while not the perfect guy, he's very good at motivating, leaving freedom to try new things, etc. I (again being from the technical side of things) would tend to micromanage a lot and I see that it's not a great way to approach management.

I love tech. I just don't see myself spending all those hours learning new stuff for the next 20 years... I must mention that I am a generalist because I refuse to specialize and end up with nothing should the market drop the specialization I chose. So that takes it's toll in the study department...

Don't know if I'd be happy in management, but I'd like to give it a shot!

Raisin

Architect192 wrote: »

I love tech. I just don't see myself spending all those hours learning new stuff for the next 20 years...

20 years is a long time not to be investing hours into new technologies. If we were to rewind the clock 20 years from today, it would be July 1993 and a 43 year old tech would probably be working with DOS, Windows 3.1, and NetWare. Microsoft would be getting ready to release Windows NT. Since this 43 year old tech doesn't want to spend time learning a whole new operating system, he decides to go into management instead. What are the odds that this guy would still be working in IT management today?

My guess is that he'd make it to the post Y2K downturn and then get laid off. Then he'd be 50 something and all his old DOS knowledge would be worthless because the business world would have mostly upgraded to Windows 2000 and XP at this point.

It doesn't matter what your position is, if you work in IT you HAVE to spend the hours to stay current. Otherwise you're going to be put out to pasture at some point.

Asif Dasl

JDMurray wrote: »

As the impossibility of retirement becomes more real to me, selling everything I own, donning a saffron robe, and wandering the Earth attempting to help my fellow man secure his computers and data centers sounds like a viable option to me. I think that I'm closer to that point than I'd care to admit.

There is a magazine called International Living where you do exactly that... URL="http://internationalliving.com/2012/12/the-worlds-top-retirement-havens-in-2013/"]link1[/URL URL="http://internationalliving.com/2012/12/the-scores-and-how-our-2013-retirement-index-works/"]link2[/URL - sell everything buy a mansion in a foreign country and live like a king (or queen!) on what pension might only get you by in the US or Europe. As I'm in my 30's it's a decision a long way off for me but I will keep it in mind and might even make it to Ecuador one day to check what retirement might be like there... it has year-round nice weather at the very least.

JDMurray

Asif Dasl wrote: »

sell everything buy a mansion in a foreign country and live like a king (or queen!) on what pension might only get you by in the US or Europe.

This idea is perpetuated by businesses who stand to make money by helping people do this. I know people who have moved to countries like Guatemala, El Salvador, and Ecuador for their permanent retirement and ended up back in the states after a few years because the economy or society or government of the country shifted in ways that wasn't favorable to them staying any longer.

If I actually did this, my plan would be to relocate every few years. I could just wander, offering my services for teaching English and technology. Heck, I suppose that I could do that now and never leave California and its great weather!

Asif Dasl

I guess that magazine benefits alright, they send me an email to me EVERY day! so they do have to benefit by giving you the information about these retirement programmes. But your right it's not for everyone, you need to go in with your eyes wide open about it and language/culture could be a huge barrier too. Bureaucracy in some of these countries is ridiculous - FWIW it's my "Plan B". I hope to do it the other way around, "Plan A" is to retire in Santa Barbara or Santa Monica. Good luck with your retirement plan!

JBrown

First time I attended a big conference was last year in San Francisco, for VMWorld 2012. I registered somewhat late in the game - 2 month before the conference- all the decently priced hotels around the Moscone were either sold out or prices were jacked up to 4 times than they would usually cost.
I ended up taking a cab every day to the conference and back number of times. I have a tendency to socialize with everyone i meet, and i was scared when found out that 5 out of 7-9 cabbies had a previous IT experience. They all were paid top $$$$ for their job, well respected and had a good life. All until their jobs were either outsourced and, they could not compete on the local market since they did not have the necessary skills -they were mostly specializing in one single area - or they were "squeezed out" of juice and did not have any strength left to learn new skills.
Keep up with the technology, you don't have to be master-expert in everything, know it well enough to handle it if they - company, friends and etc- decide to implement it, and well enough to handle majority of problems. There is a vendor support for everything else.

There was time (1999- 2004) when an Active Directory admin with no other experience than GPO/DNS/DHCP/WINS/NetBUI could potentially make $140K, show me a company that is willing to pay an AD expert that much money nowadays. May top Fortune 50 only.

Starting offer for a freshly minted VCP with some AD Experience used to be $85k-$100K. How much do they make now ?

Raisin wrote: »

20 years is a long time not to be investing hours into new technologies. If we were to rewind the clock 20 years from today, it would be July 1993 and a 43 year old tech would probably be working with DOS, Windows 3.1, and NetWare. Microsoft would be getting ready to release Windows NT. Since this 43 year old tech doesn't want to spend time learning a whole new operating system, he decides to go into management instead. What are the odds that this guy would still be working in IT management today?

My guess is that he'd make it to the post Y2K downturn and then get laid off. Then he'd be 50 something and all his old DOS knowledge would be worthless because the business world would have mostly upgraded to Windows 2000 and XP at this point.

It doesn't matter what your position is, if you work in IT you HAVE to spend the hours to stay current. Otherwise you're going to be put out to pasture at some point.

pusher

I didn't get a chance to reply to some of the really insightful posts. I really appreciate the wisdom from all the different walks of life here. Please keep the discussion going.

From what I gather, the consensus seems to be that

1) Ageism doesn't matter as much if one continues to keep up with technology
2) Keeping up with technology is a very very tough thing to do, more so when you are an old fart with a family
3) IT Management (or managerial positions like PMP, CISSP) is a viable option for an older IT PRO if a techie can tolerate non-techie stuff

With point #3 above, I am going to give Project Management a go, starting with Project+ cert and see if I can tolerate it. We'll see where that road leads. If it's not fun, then nothing is lost, but I can still remain in doing techno stuff.

On that note, is there any techie who have transitioned to IT Management, PMP, and/or CISSP? How do you like it now? Would you have done anything different in hindsight?

NetworkVeteran

pusher wrote: »

2) Keeping up with technology is a very very tough thing to do, more so when you are an old fart with a family

#2 was your point, which I don't agree with at all. I have many advantages over the younger folk in keeping up with technology:

For example, let's say Mr-21-and-eager and I both need to learn OSPFv3 to stay competitive--

(1) I have a family to protect. Never back a mom/dad with cubs into a corner. ++Motivation to learn.
(2) I have a head-start knowing yesterday's technologies. You may be learning OSPFv3 from scratch, but I already know OSPFv2!
(3) I have the context of knowing IS-IS and BGP and IPv4 and IPv6 and IPSec. I better know where OSPFv3 "fits in".
(4) I have a proven system for studying and advancing myself.
(5) I have wisdom and self-knowledge.

NetworkVeteran

I would add, I see people use their family as excuses all the time. "I don't have time to exercise because I have a toddler." Seriously? I was always running after mine! One of my colleagues completed an across-America road-trip with their elementary-school kids, and Kindles/Nooks/iPads are great for being mobile and with them and studying.

(Obviously, you should also budget a significant portion of your evening for engaging them! My boss, a sharp executive, has always budgeted a couple hours per day for reading to his daughter. He excelled at more technical roles when she was younger. Another strategy is to take advantage of their sleep cycles and do intensive study after they go to sleep or before they wake up.)