moving from programming to networking

dsa1971

anybody made a career switch from programmer to networking work? I've been a programmer for almost 10 years now and have tired of it in some respects. I am still employed full-time as a programmer but have always been interested in the networking side of IT and have decided at least to get a few certs under my belt. A+, Network+, and then maybe onto MCSA. I am wondering if anybody has made this switch. Right now, working from home, I don't have the opportunity to even stick my nose into our company's server room and get my feet wet. In the past, like most IT people, I've had to do some hardware stuff and have built computers for myself and friends so I have that experience but no major networking stuff just some basic stuff. also, lots of customer application support which often turns into teaching someone how to use windows. anyway, I'm looking for some advice on what steps to take beyond getting some certifications. I'm thinking I may need to get my foot in the door at a company with my programming background and eventually make the switch to networking that way otherwise trying to get a entry level networking job would hit my paycheck hard. advice?

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duckduckduck

I'd look for a job as a jr. administrator if I was you. Many network admins are expecting to need to train someone in this position and would most likely be happy to take on a programmer (which shows you have strong problem solving skills). Consulting firms also often employ both and may allow you to do programming and train for networking on the side.

However the consulting firms may well decide that you are more profitable to them as a programmer if you're good, so be careful following that route.

dsa1971

duckduckduck wrote:

I'd look for a job as a jr. administrator if I was you. Many network admins are expecting to need to train someone in this position and would most likely be happy to take on a programmer (which shows you have strong problem solving skills). Consulting firms also often employ both and may allow you to do programming and train for networking on the side.

However the consulting firms may well decide that you are more profitable to them as a programmer if you're good, so be careful following that route.

Thanks for the reply. I'm sure the consulting firms would want me to do programming rather than networking. I have looked at some job postings for jr. administrator positions so that's probably what I will end up doing. I'd like to get a few certs under my belt just to show that I am commited to a networking position.

JDMurray

As a programmer who also does IT work, I can say that you are going to have a tough time finding IT jobs because your resume is filled with 10 years worth of programming occupations and not full-time IT work. Certs are a complement to experience, not a replacement. You might find an entry-level IT position, but you'll only making only 30% or so of your current programmer's salary. It may be a long time before you have an IT resume that will net you the same $$,$$$ your programming resume.

If you are a bit burned out on programming, do the IT certs thing as a hobby so you can think about something else besides program logic (working with hardware is sooooooo much easier than writing software). But consider the possibility that you will one day be once again interested in writing software for a living and want to go back to it full time. This happens to all of us "softies" at least once in our careers. We all eventually go back to programming--especially when we realize the inevitable reduction in our paycheck.

dsa1971

jdmurray wrote:

As a programmer who also does IT work, I can say that you are going to have a tough time finding IT jobs because your resume is filled with 10 years worth of programming occupations and not full-time IT work. Certs are a complement to experience, not a replacement. You might find an entry-level IT position, but you'll only making only 30% or so of your current programmer's salary. It may be a long time before you have an IT resume that will net you the same $$,$$$ your programming resume.

If you are a bit burned out on programming, do the IT certs thing as a hobby so you can think about something else besides program logic (working with hardware is sooooooo much easier than writing software). But consider the possibility that you will one day be once again interested in writing software for a living and want to go back to it full time. This happens to all of us "softies" at least once in our careers. We all eventually go back to programming--especially when we realize the inevitable reduction in our paycheck.

do you consider IT work only to be hardware related? I consider programming, networking, pc techs all to be IT. I understand certs are a complement to relevant experience and I'm not sure if I would go for an MCSE or any advanced cert without some relevant experience because I think preparing for that without real-world experience would be extremely difficult.

I don't think I've completely lost interest in writing software but I have always been interest in the networking side and I believe it's possible for me to get my foot in the door at a smaller company as a programmer and also do some networking stuff. I have found that at the smaller companies I have worked for there is definitely some crossover among programming, networking, hardware, etc. It's certainly possible that in 6 monts I'll change my mind and be all about programming.

Here's my general rant about certs (not meant as attack)
Even without relevant experience it's my opinion that it's okay for people to go after these different certifications as long as they don't go into an interview or job and portray themselves as an expert just because they obtained a cert. There is no substition for experience but if someone takes the time to actually learn the material to pass an exam (a lot of people of course just memorize the material) and does what they can to make it as real-world as possible then I think that's okay as long as they understand it's not a substitution for real-world experience. If I were to go after the MCSA I would definitely take classes at my local community college where they at least have labs setup so I could get the minimal amount of hands-on training. That's no substitution for experience but it's better than strictly memorizing material from a book.

johnnynodough

DSA, you are correct in theory, but unfortunately its wrong in reality these days. Since there are so many asshats that **** there way through exams, 99.999% of employers will look at a resume and see "Wow, JimBob has an MCSE and a CCNA, but no job experience, kinda like the bazillion other guys we interviewed that couldnt even answer a simple question, guess it wasnt on there test **** software. Next. (Shreds resume")

That is what has become of certification, I guarentee well over half of the people that hold certs are worthless pieces who just make certfied people with integrity look not so good. There is the problem, you cant even get an interview

Experience tends to overcome that, so now and employer looks at your resume and says "JimBob has an MCSE and a CCNA, and worked as a level 2 helpdesk for 4 years, well if he was completely worthless like the last bazillion monkeys resumes we have shredded, his last employer probably wouldnt have hired him, so I guess we will at least give this guy an interview (Places in the keeper pile)

Now I personally think that with a strong and lengthy background in programming that you will have a much easier time then someone who just walked in off the street, I work with many guys that had their roots in programming or electrical engineering like myself, got some certs, and have been doing very well.

Like JDmurray says, get ready for a nasty paycut, there is no reason an employer would pay you seasoned porgrammer wages for an entry level network tech. Even formal education just makes you entry level, but it certainly helps get your resume get looked at.

Just bust your ass off, do it with integrity, be prepared to take a paycut so you can get your foot in the door with a job that matches your certs, and have some patience. You have an upper hand though, you can always fall back on your background as a code monkey

Good luck!

dsa1971

johnnynodough,

thanks for the reply. I understand that a lot of people do **** their way to certs. I have not fully commited to switching to networking it's just something I have thought about doing. I also really need to make an effort to do some networking (more than just the computer kind) to meet some people locally in the industry who can open some doors for me. Online forums are nice but networking locally can be extremely beneficial. I'll just keep studying, get some certs, and see what happens.

int80h

I started my carrear doing software development, the switched jobs to where now I do 50% CAN and LIN network design and 50% software development of nodes on these networks. If you have a strong software programming background and want to get into networking without taking a paycut I suggest you find a programming position for embedded firmware for networking devices such as routers, switches, or automotive ECUs. This will give you excellent experience with networking protocols. Who better to set up a router than the person who wrote the firmware inside the router?

If you want to do netwoking for a living I highly suggest you look into CAN and LIN networking. Its a lot of fun to test your network when it's inside a Viper or Corvette

JDMurray

dsa1971 wrote:

do you consider IT work only to be hardware related? I consider programming, networking, pc techs all to be IT.

No, and I didn't say that. And most software engineering projects are not related to the IT work used to maintain an organization's infrastructure. Programming is a tool used by IT; software engineering itself is not part of IT.

dsa1971 wrote:

I understand certs are a complement to relevant experience and I'm not sure if I would go for an MCSE or any advanced cert without some relevant experience because I think preparing for that without real-world experience would be extremely difficult.

It's difficult, but not impossible. One of the areas that MS certs have been slammed for in the past is that they can be passed by only studying that material and without having any hands-on experience. I believe this is no longer the case.

dsa1971 wrote:

I believe it's possible for me to get my foot in the door at a smaller company as a programmer and also do some networking stuff.

I've worked as a programmer for over 20 years and I've never had a software engineering job where I didn't do hardware/networking stuff. Usually the IT people are so over-worked just keeping the infrastructure running that they don't have time to help with product development. That's when the software engies develop their IT skills

dsa1971 wrote:

Even without relevant experience it's my opinion that it's okay for people to go after these different certifications as long as they don't go into an interview or job and portray themselves as an expert just because they obtained a cert.

The employers conducting interviews are not clueless imbeciles. If someone presents to me their resume, and it has an arm-length listing of certs on it, I can still tell whether they have the knowledge and experience that I need regardless of how they attempt to represent themselves in an interview.

Consider getting an IT or programming cert to be like taking a one- or two-semester college-level class with a certificate of completion awarded after passing the final exam. It's self-directed education, and you are better for having the cert rather than not having it. If you don't wish to accidentally "deceive" any prospective employers, then just don't list the cert on your resume. There is no requirement for you to do so.

dsa1971

jdmurray wrote:

[No, and I didn't say that. And most software engineering projects are not related to the IT work used to maintain an organization's infrastructure. Programming is a tool used by IT; software engineering itself is not part of IT.

we'll just have to agree to disagree on the definition of Information Technology.

JDMurray

Information Technology is only one of the many applications for computer programming. Computers, programming languages, and software engineering all existed before Information Technology, not the other way around.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_Technology

dsa1971

jdmurray wrote:

Information Technology is only one of the many applications for computer programming. Computers, programming languages, and software engineering all existed before Information Technology, not the other way around.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_Technology

I don't disagree with the definition but, in general, the term Information Technology is sort of a catch all for computer related things and maybe that's not technically correct that's very common for the term to be used in that context.