Help ! ... armed forces VS college in order to acquire a federal IT job?

wolf187

I've been contemplating joining one of the armed forces in order to get training and help to pay for school, also from what I've read after boot camp you will earn the essential certifications to get started in the IT world .My end goal would be to work for a federal agency whether it be NSA , homeland security etc as an IT technician . I have heard that i dont need to go to the military in order to do that and then Ive also heard that yes i have to come from a military organization in order for that to happen so i am very confused in which way to go . These are the military branches i was looking into and their MOS :

Air Force : Cyber Transport
Army or National Guard: 25b ,25n , or 25f
Navy : Information systems Technician
Marine Corps : 0651 Data Network Specialist

I also got the impression from a Navy forum that the Navy will make sure i acquire more certifications then in the other branches for my initial job training out of boot camp , i dont know if thats true im trying to figure this out as fast as possible and any insight will be greatly appreciated .
I am 26 years old and I have some college credits towards an associates degree in Networking which i do want to complete in order to move on to a B.A and because i understand the importance of an education. As you can see i am pressed for time since i am only getting older as the pendulum swings.

Thank you in advance to all that take the time to comment , i appreciate it .

sigsoldier

I did the army route when I was 18. The military is a big commitment, but it will certainly help your odds when it comes to working for a 3-letter agency down the road. If you're willing to put in a few years in the military, you should be able to expect more opportunities when you are done. There are a lot of benefits that most people don't take advantage of while active duty. If you are willing to work hard, then you can come out after 1 enlistment with a degree, several certifications, clearance, and maybe even see a little of the world. Finding a job shouldn't be too much of a problem after that.

Oh, and I'd go either navy or airforce!

tpatt100

Cyber Transport? Who the heck approved that MOS title lol.

Sirbloody

Fair warning, if you do decided to join the Army (I was in for almost 7 years) do not go 25F, that is more of a phone operator position. That was my first MOS then I switched to 25B which is basic help desk.

networker050184

Hey, 25F was a great MOS! It's actually 25N now and it is much more than a telephone operator. Routers, switches, CCM etc all of that is covered in this MOS.

spiderjericho

I'm currently in the military and Marine Corps.

The one thing I'd do is touch base with the services and found out what is taught in the service's IT school. You want to go to the one that is going to provide the best training or ROI.


Your mileage will VARY due to the military unit (being in the right time and place), so everyone's input will have 0 influence, since the military experience is such a crap shoot.

From my 12 years of service, I've had the benefit of being with an infantry unit, being an instructor at the COMM school, working in the main NOC, etc.

I've happened to be in the right time and places to obtaining some of my certifications: MCSE 2003, Net+, Sec+, CCNP, CCNA, CISSP, ITIL Foundations and a few others. However, there are some I had to pay for (A+, CASP, etc).

I have a sergeant/E5 who is separating at 8 years and doesn't have a Net+, CCNA, etc. I happen to emphasize training when I assumed leadership of the section, so I sent him to a Sec+ and Net+ course and have him set to go to a CCNA boot camp prior to exiting.

I'm in a joint unit and met at least 2 dozen military guys who don't have Network+, Security+, etc and are in the Navy, Army, Air Force and Marine Corps.

The Marine Corps COMM school was a great primer for entry levels. We taught A+, CCNA, Microsoft Server and Exchange material to the kids. I won't lie, we went through a lot of growing pains, as the material is not friendly to someone with 0 IT experience. But the knowledge/material taught is great and obviously sets you up perfectly for life after the military. I cannot speak on the other service schools (and I haven't been at the Marine Corps COMM school for a few years and some things have changed like getting rid of the Pearson Vue/Prometric testing center).

In regards to Government Service jobs, prior military are looked on favorably versus someone who isn't a veteran. But look at this like a resume bullet, as ultimately it's going to come down to who you know or your qualifications.

dmoore44

A word to the wise... be careful when joining the military.

When I joined up, I went to take the ASVAB and passed with flying colors - there wasn't a job I wasn't qualified for. When the recruiter asked what I wanted to do, I responded that I wanted to work with computers since that what I was currently doing (at the time I worked for a small business that installed and configured servers). Since there was a freeze on jobs with the AFSC that I wanted (3C0X1 - COMMUNICATIONS - COMPUTER SYSTEMS OPERATIONS), I told the recruiter that I would wait until it became available. After 7 months of waiting, the recruiter called me and told me that I could grab a slot in basic if I went "Open General". This essentially means that you're eligible for any job in the "General" category (which includes all of the comm, intel, and a whole lot of others). Since I was getting antsy, I jumped at the chance. When I got to basic, sometime in the 2nd or 3rd week I was instructed to fill out a card with the top 5 AFSCs that I wanted. Needless to say, I chose the top 3 comm jobs and two intel jobs. When I got to the 8th week, I was called back in to the assignment officer's office and given my job: 6C0X1 - Contracting. My reaction: WTF? The moral of the story: be patient you'll eventually get what you want.

So, now you're wondering why I recounted that story... And the reason is this: the DOD and Federal government at large are currently having their budget reduced (yay sequester!). This means that they could be slow rolling new trainees (i.e. accepting fewer people in to basic, and accepting fewer trainees in to the AFSCs or MOSes that you're looking at), and if Congress doesn't get its act together, the budget cuts from the sequester will be worse next year, which could result in RIFs (SECDEF has recently alluded to the possibility).

And now you're here, wondering why I'm being such a downer. But I'm honestly not trying to be. My purpose for this exposition is to let you know that the military is an awesome route to go with the possibility for some truly great experiences and top notch training. I honestly don't regret a decision I've made in that regard. But if you've got a vision of what you want to do - then go after it, and try your hardest not to compromise. And remember the moral of the above story: be patient, and you'll eventually get what you want.

Sirbloody

That sounds a lot like what I went through trying to joing the Air Force... same job and everything. As soon as the "recruiter" told me they wanted "open minded" people in the Air force I turned around and joined the Army.

beantownmp

If you're going Army, definitely check out this career field. A buddy of mine just retrained into it. They train you on BackTrack. Nuff said
Cryptologic Network Warfare Specialist Jobs (35Q) | goarmy.com

If you're looking AF Cyber Trans (networking), Cyber Ops(server/sysad), Cyber Surety(IA), or Programming are all decent jobs at the right duty location. Dont go Knowledge Ops (admin) or Client Systems (help desk).

I'd highly suggest doing a few years in the military. Get your 5 points veterans preference. Get as much schooling done while on Active Duty as possible. Then when you get out, finish schooling with the highly lucrative 9/11 GI Bill and you'll have set yourself up well for a Gov't job. Also, chances are strong you'll get some sort of clearance, SECRET level minimum which will help your chances as well. Stay in the Guard/Reserve to keep it active.

megatran808

tpatt100 wrote: »

Cyber Transport? Who the heck approved that MOS title lol.

Yeah not a fan of that title for the 3D1X2. They should have just kept the old 2E2X1 title Computer Network Switching and Crypto Specialist

shodown

I'm former navy IT.

Things are all over the place. At "A" school you just get the basics of IT. However once you make it to the fleet, you could end up in a radio room somewhere, a mesasge center, or doing Crypto, or IT. Thats your 1st hurdle. After that you could end up having contractors do the work if your on a shore command. As far as the navy if you get on a smaller ship(Destroyer, Crusier) you will get to do some IT on top of all the things I listed above. On a larger ship you will end up in a division that does one of the above and your chances of cross train go way down, but getting higher skills in one of the above goes way up.

tombosauce

If you decide to go the Navy route, talk to your recruiter about making sure you get the 2791 NEC (naval enlistment classification) right out of "A" school. If you do, you'll show up to your first command with Security+ and a couple of Microsoft certs. Like shodown said, if you go to a smaller ship, you'll become a jack of all trades, but if you show up to a larger ship like an aircraft carrier, you're *almost* guaranteed to be in the division that runs the networks and does help desk support. If I remember correctly, getting that NEC requires a 6 year committment when you sign up. The 2790 NEC will get you an A+, but it only requires a 4 year committment. If the recruiter tells you to just ask to go to school when you get to your command, don't do it. The schools are 3+ months long, and units are very unlikely to send you away for that long on their dime.

The Navy also has "general" slots. It's called going in undesignated or "undes". The recruiter may tell you that doing this will let you sample all the jobs and let you choose the job you like later. Don't fall for it. You'll end up doing all the physical labor jobs (chipping paint, working with the anchors, standing lookout out to sea), and when you do get a chance to change jobs, it will be whatever the Navy has open at the time, not necessarily what you want.

If you're interested in the infosec side, there's a rate called Cryptologic Technician - Networking (CTN) that does the Navy's "hacking", network defense, and information assurance type of duties. They typically require a very high ASVAB score though. I only worked with a few of them, but they all had their Security+ certs, and one had his CISSP. I'm not sure how much of that is worked into the training pipeline though.

SteveLord

Just so you know, the military is no less than an 8 year total commitment when counting inactive ready reserve time. If you think being in IT you'll never get deployed and if deployed, you'll totally be out of harms way then you're dead wrong.

traceyke

SteveLord wrote: »

Just so you know, the military is no less than an 8 year total commitment when counting inactive ready reserve time. If you think being in IT you'll never get deployed and if deployed, you'll totally be out of harms way then you're dead wrong.

FINALLY! A realistic quote!

WafflesAndRootbeer

tpatt100 wrote: »

Cyber Transport? Who the heck approved that MOS title lol.

The same guys who thought you'd be walking bow-legged after seeing the words "Digital Battlefield Warrior" and "Cyber Warfare Specialist" in the recruiting material. Probably also the same guys who called an armoured transport "The Stryker", which has vaguely phallic connotations.

Mrock4

I joined the Army at 18 and was a 25B for nearly 7 years. I got out and it really worked out fantastic for me, but it is what you make of it, just like life. If you join, serve 6 years, and get out, a good career is not guaranteed by any means (even with a clearance).

Also, while MOS is loosely tied to what you do, it also is no guarantee. I was a 25B who touched nothing but Cisco gear most of my career- even though we had 25N's (who were responsible for all the Cisco gear). In short, you'll probably be doing something a little different than the actual job description on the internet for that MOS.

With regards to other services, I served with all (except Coast Guard) for several years, and generally speaking- the Air Force was the most technically skilled (and usually overweight ) - but I don't think you can go wrong honestly. At the end of the day, hard work, motivation, and a good attitude will get you the most return on investment, not which service you choose to enlist in.

aspiringsoul

I've considered joining, but I'm hesitant to do so. I'm 26 years old and nearly have my bachelor degree. I could apply to OCS/OTS but they are extremely selective and the chances of being accepted are slim as they mainly fill the Officer ranks from the Academy and ROTC. Also, from what I've been told, Officers mainly handle administrative tasks and very seldom get their hands dirty with the actual equipment. Instead the Enlisted men and women are the ones who actually work with the equipment (as well as contractors). I would consider enlisting for CTN-Navy or Cyber Surety-Airforce, but going in as an E3 would be a pretty significant cut in pay. You sure don’t join for the money! Granted, the security clearance would be nice but I know I can make more money as a Civilian. The Army and Navy do have a generous loan repayment program though.

Joining the military isn't worth it just to gain some certifications or a security clearance. It's only worth it if you sincerely want to serve your country and can handle being away from friends/family for extended periods of time, putting your life at risk, as well as putting the needs of the service before your own.

Mrock4

aspiringsoul- if you want to join, want better money, and want hands-on experience, you might look into being an Army Warrant Officer. Might have to join as something else first- (ie: join the guard/reserves as enlisted, do some time, then get accepted to Warrant school). Just a thought. Warrant's get a lot of hands on, none of the administrative, and better pay than enlisted.

higherho

I would be careful because the military has been gutting their IT staff a lot this past year.

kurosaki00

tpatt100 wrote: »

Cyber Transport? Who the heck approved that MOS title lol.

I want to be a Cyber Machines Warfare Network Analyst