Thinking about Navy Reserve...

laughing_man

So I currently work as a security analyst for a healthcare organization and have been on the job for just shy of 3 years. I have a non-technical masters degree, got my GSEC last year and am going for GCIH in the fall. I would like to break into the government/military world of security/information assurance and I was looking at the Navy Reserve as a possibility. I have flirted with the idea of joining the Navy since I was a teenager as my dad was career Navy. Anyone have any experience being in the Naval Reserve? Information Warfare looks good, but I understand it is VERY competitive. Intelligence is another option. I am in the process of talking to my dad for his opinion before I approach a recruiter.

Anyone think this is a viable option and have any information on the prospects?

For anyone in the reserve or guard in general, what is it like juggling a job and your service? How exactly does pay work when deployed (I assume that depends on your civilian employer)?

the_Grinch

I have not been in the military, but I have looked into it from time to time. You have two options. Enlisted will actually allow you to do the job. Officer, much more competitive and you'll be a manager for the most part. If you go enlisted, look into CTN as that will be the rate that will be right up your alley for computer security. You can enter as an E3 and I believe after tech school (due to the length) you'll get the E4 (don't quote me on that though).

Rosco2382

the_Grinch is correct, you can enter as an E3, though with my experience in the military its best to enter as an officer. The benefits far exceed the ones from being enlisted. Though its your choice.

aspiringsoul

First of all, thank you for considering serving our country, and good luck to you whatever your decision may be.

Please take everything I have to say with a grain of salt, as I have no affiliation with the Navy, have not spoken with a recruiter recently, and have acquired most of this knowledge from previous research on the Internet. Speak to a recruiter if you really want to learn more about your options.

I have flirted with the idea of joining the Navy since I was in high school. I had 3 years of Navy JROTC during high school and graduated at the rank of Cadet Ensign.

There are three options for becoming a commissioned Officer in the Navy (as well as other branches).

1. The Naval Academy (not an option for you).
2. College ROTC (not an option for you as your already have a degree)
3. Apply to OCS. Officer Candidate School is open to currently enlisted Navy as well as Civilians who possess Bachelor degrees. This is extremely competitive and the selection rate is very low. You would require a technical degree with a high GPA, as well as outstanding letters of recommendation and a superb interview with the board to seriously be considered.

If you went in as an Ensign, you would most likely be interested in the Information Warefare Officer job. Your job duties would be managerial in nature.

If you wanted to actually get your hands dirty and do the technical work, then you would most likely want to enlist and choose the CTN job.

You would enter as an E-3 as you only require 48 credit hours to enter as an E-3 (you don't get brownie points for a bachelor or masters when you enlist) and you would be eligible for promotion to E-4 after completing A school. The only branch that allows you to enlist as an E-4 with a bachelor degree is the Army.

The pay for the Reserve isn't that great (you're only paid for one weekend a month and two weeks a year which is your time on duty) but the benefits are excellent. Your pay will vary depending by time in grade and your rank so you would definitely need a full time job that supports your Navy career. If you were to deploy, then you would receive active duty pay which still is not that much for junior enlisted. An E-3 with less than 2 years makes $
1787/238 a month *pre-taxed active duty/reserve).

You would have to take the ASVAB and score high enough to be able to apply for the job that you want (CTN), and you would be entered into the Delayed Enlistment Program. The Navy has a college loan repayment program that you could use to pay back your loans.

If your primary goal is to become an Officer in the Navy, I recommend that you apply to OCS as a civilian instead of enlisting with the intention of applying to OCS while enlisted, as this requires your CO's approval and there are less slots open to enlisted personnel than Civilians for OCS.

Some of the former/current military members on this forum will be able to provide much better feedback than myself.

I'm still strongly considering enlisting for the CTN position but I think I'm going to wait and see where my civilian career takes me. I'm 26 years old and I almost have my bachelor degree and I will be starting the MS: Information Security and Assurance program through WGU next year.

Good luck to you.

Qord

As former Navy (active and reserve) my best advice would be to weigh all your options carefully and not allow the recruiter to choose for you. They are salesman, their job is to sell you the Navy life and meet the quota that will help them get promoted. Make sure that you are calling the shots at every possible avenue.

shodown

In the reserves make sure you are a officer. You will enjoy life much more. That little bit of money you get as an enlisted is crap. I actually got out of the reserve's after doing it for a while. I was making way more money working side contracts. They threw retirement in my face, and I showed them that if I worked for myself it wouldn't' even be close the money I would have at retirement vs military retirement from the reserves

laughing_man

Qord wrote: »

As former Navy (active and reserve) my best advice would be to weigh all your options carefully and not allow the recruiter to choose for you. They are salesman, their job is to sell you the Navy life and meet the quota that will help them get promoted. Make sure that you are calling the shots at every possible avenue.

My dad always told me the same and said to me if I was ever considering service to approach him first. He still works for the Navy as a consultant, so he is a tremendous resource.

I would mainly be interested in work as an officer. I should point out that I am not motivated by the extra money so much as the experience, potential to immerse in the gov't/DoD side of security (where I would much rather be) and possibly clearance for future DoD work.

jamesleecoleman

I'm also thinking about joining the Navy. I saw some of the jobs that they have for an officer and the Information Warfare Officer looks cool. There's also another job that I saw posted at my schools career website. I'm interested in it and I thought I would share it with you.


184X - Cyber Warfare Engineer
Designator Description
Applies principles and techniques of computer science and computer engineering to research, design, develop, test and evaluate software and firmware for computer network attack, exploitation and defense in Cyberspace Operations. Note: These officers will be in this designator for a maximum of five years. At the 5-year mark they must decide to leave the Navy or convert to IW officers (designator 181X).

I found the Navy's COOL website. I thought it might help to put it in the post.
https://www.cool.navy.mil/officer/odc184x.htm



Here are some forums to do some reading on some things.
Navy Intelligence, Information Warfare and Information Technology - Forum
Military.com Forums

the_Grinch

You should note that Cyber Warfare Engineers are for active duty only and competitive is not the word for it. Without knowing where you currently live, you'll need to see if you're in an area where the clearance will actively help you. If you're in the DC area then it would make a lot of sense, but if not it might not be the best move as you might never be able to use the clearance. Officer route is great, but can be very tough.

laughing_man

the_Grinch wrote: »

You should note that Cyber Warfare Engineers are for active duty only and competitive is not the word for it. Without knowing where you currently live, you'll need to see if you're in an area where the clearance will actively help you. If you're in the DC area then it would make a lot of sense, but if not it might not be the best move as you might never be able to use the clearance. Officer route is great, but can be very tough.

I am not adverse to moving at some point, in fact that is one of the main attractions. Plus the officer route might be tough, but I am looking for a challenge. In some ways my current job is a bit too pedestrian so my initial thought was that the reserve might provide me that challenge while still being able to maintain my civilian career.

aspiringsoul

laughing_man,

Even in the Reserves, it's not a question of if you will deploy but WHEN. This can be a challenge for your civilian career and any potential employers you consider. While a career in the Navy Reserve would make you a strong candidate for positions that require a security clearance such as government jobs, I would imagine that some potential employers in the private sector would prefer a candidate that is available 24/7/365. Just something to consider.

tombosauce

Information Warfare officers have a much wider range of responsibilities than information assurance / security. I would argue that the chance of you working in one of those areas is much greater than getting a position working in IA. Becoming an Intelligence officer will get you no experience working in IA. You would just be a user of the systems.

This page has a lot of info about the roles of IW officers General Information

I'm currently an active duty Information Professional officer. Our range of duties also include computer network defense and IA. At my last duty station, I was information system security manager where I wrote up and managed the security accreditations for each of our intel networks. They push IP officers to get their CISSP cert because we often have security roles in our jobs.

This is the link to the brochure for the IP officer community (opens up a word doc). Keep in mind it's recruiting material though. http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/officer/Detailing/IDC_FAO/IP/Documents/Navy%20IP%20Community%20Brochure.doc

If you go the enlisted route, Information Systems Technicians (ITs) are the rate (Navy term for enlisted job specialty) that maintain the networks and servers. I'm not sure about reserve enlisted, but the active duty Sailors are required to obtain Security+ to maintain their system administrator access. You'll get a broader network experience as an IT than you would as a CTN, but you don't need as high of an ASVAB score. So if you try and go CTN and don't meet the minimum requirements, don't think you're out of options.

This page has a pay calculator on the right side that gives you a good estimate of what you'd make per month and year as a reservist:
Benefits: NavyReserve.com

laughing_man

Thanks for the great info tombosauce!

MrAgent

I am in the process of re-entering the reserves now. I just have to go and pass the PT test and a medical physical. I was prior enlisted in the Navy as an IT2 (E5). I have applied 3 times to become and officer, so unless you already have a technical masters degree (working on mine) and a CISSP, the odds of being selected into the reserves as an Officer are quite slim. I have a wealth of experience, a slew of certifications, and I am prior service. That was not enough to get me selected. So at this point I am going to keep applying (the next selection board is in March 2014) but I feel I will have a leg up already being in the reserves.

There are generally over 400 people who apply each board which is twice a year. Of those ~400 there are generally about 5 IP slots (which is an IT Officer) about 5-8 IW slots, and about 25 intel slots.

Now if you decide to enlist and become a CTN, youll have to attend bootcamp and then a lengthy school. You should get E3 out of bootcamp, and E4 after you have completed your intial schooling.

Feel free to PM me with any questions.

PhillyDilly

MrAgent,

What was the outcome to your submission? Did you ever get in?

I too was thinking about going into the reserves as an officer, I have 10 years active duty as enlisted; got out as an E-6, completed my undergrad, then worked in the private sector as a Computer System Engineer (Unix).


Let me know,

Thanks,

PhillyDilly

yellowpad

i would love to get back in, but i am a little over the cut off age limit

JockVSJock

Go in as an Officer.

You will get more pay, more respect (enlisted and non-commissioned officers (NCOs) have to salute and render courtesies to you) and way more privileges.

For example. When I was enlisted in the US Army, if I wanted to go on leave (vacation) I had to drive to a HQ building, present my ID, sign the paperwork and then sign out and go on leave. An Officer only has to pick up the phone, call in, and tell the NCO/enlisted person on the other end of the phone to put them on leave. When I was in South Korea, only married enlisted/NCOs or an E7 or higher could drive/operate a civilian car. Any Officer could drive a car. See what I'm getting at?

Also if your older, have professional work experience and hold a college degree, and go enlisted, your going to suffer the wrath of the jealous NCOs and often be the focus of their rage, anger and resentment. They are used to dealing with kids between the age of 18 - 24 years old.

However if you can put up with it, then by all means, go enlisted. There were a number of folks like you who I met at Basic who were going National Guard or Reserves so they could get business opportunities and/or security clearances with the Federal Government.

MrAgent

PhillyDilly wrote: »

MrAgent,

What was the outcome to your submission? Did you ever get in?

I too was thinking about going into the reserves as an officer, I have 10 years active duty as enlisted; got out as an E-6, completed my undergrad, then worked in the private sector as a Computer System Engineer (Unix).


Let me know,

Thanks,

PhillyDilly

I had some issues come up that prevented me from joining at that time. I am again in the process and waiting to go back to MEPS to get my physical done.

JockVSJock wrote: »

Go in as an Officer.

You will get more pay, more respect (enlisted and non-commissioned officers (NCOs) have to salute and render courtesies to you) and way more privileges.

For example. When I was enlisted in the US Army, if I wanted to go on leave (vacation) I had to drive to a HQ building, present my ID, sign the paperwork and then sign out and go on leave. An Officer only has to pick up the phone, call in, and tell the NCO/enlisted person on the other end of the phone to put them on leave. When I was in South Korea, only married enlisted/NCOs or an E7 or higher could drive/operate a civilian car. Any Officer could drive a car. See what I'm getting at?

Also if your older, have professional work experience and hold a college degree, and go enlisted, your going to suffer the wrath of the jealous NCOs and often be the focus of their rage, anger and resentment. They are used to dealing with kids between the age of 18 - 24 years old.

However if you can put up with it, then by all means, go enlisted. There were a number of folks like you who I met at Basic who were going National Guard or Reserves so they could get business opportunities and/or security clearances with the Federal Government.

It is EXTREMELY competitive when applying for a commission in the reserves. If you don't have a masters and a lot of management/leadership experience, your chances at getting selected are quite slim.

eansdad

Qord is correct about recruiters. Although I am not Navy I was Active Army. If you want the experience and training then go enlisted. You can always apply to OCS if you want to become an officer later. Enlisted get more respect then most would think, an E-5/6 or higher will always be relied upon by his/her command.

Enlisted joke - What is the difference between an E3 and a 2nd LT? The E3 has been promoted twice....

Do what you love and the Military will be a great experience, plus you can't beat a pension after 20yrs.