How can I get into SP networking?

realdreams

So here is my story.
I have been working on networking stuff since HS (tried to start a small ISP), got CCNA in college, which was really easy. I did an internship as infrastructure support for one summer while I was in college. They didn't let me to do much advanced stuff but I did get exposed to ASA, NX-OS, UCS, VMware etc. I have a lab with FreeNAS, MikroTik and of course Cisco L2/L3 switches. I have some experience with Asterisk, iSCSI, SAN, vSphere. Some interviewers like the diversity but some thinks its a minus (not concentrated).

What I really want to network engineer/architect in a service provider or large enterprise (companies in NANOG). I am going to get CCNP next week (hopefully, I passed CCNP Route already). But after I graduated from college I had almost no luck finding a job... A Tier-1 ISP did give me a NOC engineer offer but due to some timing issue I couldn't take it... After than I didn't even get a second interview from any company...

Now I am kinda frustrated.. Almost every network engineering job requires a couple years of work experience, my experience as a hobby does not really count as work experience. So it's hard to get pass the HR. Some interviewers actually told me their boss wanted someone with more experience.

I did have a couple interviews, but either the interviewer was asking totally irrelevant questions (small company or kinda tech support position), or the questions are kinda overwhelming (QinQ, lower layer mechanisms like PHY, optics wavelength). Only 20% of interviewers ask BGP, OSPF questions which I consider relevant but too bad I wasn't ready back then...

Now I kinda regret that I applied those positions before I was ready... I don't think they will consider me anytime soon.. I even tried to apply those really entry level positions for CCNA trainees but they won't consider me because I am not local... Forgot to mention, I live in a really small town but I am totally willing to relocate, but that still seems to be a big minus...If the company does not have the budget to fly me in, they probably won't interview me?

After finishing CCNP next week I plan to work on MPLS and JunOS, which is essential for most network engineering positions. But all the experience I can get is my lab experience and lab is getting more expensive (getting an SRX). I dont really know what I should do next, any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Edit: I really like network engineering. I guess I didn't realize there are actually not that many SP network engineers. Most service provider NOC and engineering are quite small (a tier-1 ISP's NOC might have just 15 people). And most people going to NANOG have well over 20 years of experience (since the early times of the Internet). I just don't see a visible path to get in.

Since last year I have applied over 200 positions online, got interviews from about 8 companies, got second interview from 2...Basically the hiring manager called me, there is a good chance that I got at least a meaningful conversation. But if HR does the screening, most likely its not gonna work... Why in the world would someone let HR do the screening with a script that he/she doesn't understand?

Now I think I can do a lot better in an interview talking about BGP/OSPF. But there is still so much that I need to work on, MPLS, L2VPN, IPv6 routing, JunOS, QinQ, vendor specific things etc.

networker050184

Your perceptions are kind of off. It's not true that there aren't many SP network engineers. I work at a tier 2 level ISP and we have hundreds of engineers doing everything form planning, design, QA, sales engineering, operations etc. There is plenty of work to go around. Not all people going to NANOG have over 20 years of experience. I go to as many NANOGs as I can and I haven't been dong this for 20 years.

As far as how to get in you are on the right track. Work on your entry level certifications and start applying at ISPs and get your foot in the door. It is likely you might have to move to where the jobs are first. They don't come to you and there will be someone local to take the job. Companies usually don't start paying to relocate people until you get to the mid and advanced level positions.

Some other things to think about. How does your resume look? How are your interview skills? Are you convincing people to take you on?

networker050184

I was assuming that was a long term goal, but I agree. If you are trying to get into those types of positions now you are aiming too high.

iBrokeIT

Sounds like your certifications and expectations are a head of where your work experience and hiring managers are willing to hire you at. You listed 1 summer internship and have a CCNP, if you are applying for CCNP jobs I probably wouldn't hire you either. You need to be applying to help desk and NOC jobs first to gain some proven experience.

realdreams

Thanks.
I always tell the interviewer I am ready to relocate and dont require relocation assistance. Salary requirement is often a mandatory question and I usually say negotiable since I don't have a previous job to compare.

Can you give some hint for these 3 questions? My resume has gone through major revisions a few times and I can't really tell how well it works.
On interview skills, I almost always ask for feedback from my interviewers but most don't say much. I like it better when the interviewer guides the interview instead of throwing me very generic/open questions (usually HR) that I am not even sure my answer is in the same direction as what the interviewer expected

I think generally I am very passionate in the interview but again I don't know what the interviewer feels. I am not particularly confident sometimes, especially when the interviewer keeps asking about experience.

networker050184 wrote: »

Your perceptions are kind of off. It's not true that there aren't many SP network engineers. I work at a tier 2 level ISP and we have hundreds of engineers doing everything form planning, design, QA, sales engineering, operations etc. There is plenty of work to go around. Not all people going to NANOG have over 20 years of experience. I go to as many NANOGs as I can and I haven't been dong this for 20 years.

As far as how to get in you are on the right track. Work on your entry level certifications and start applying at ISPs and get your foot in the door. It is likely you might have to move to where the jobs are first. They don't come to you and there will be someone local to take the job. Companies usually don't start paying to relocate people until you get to the mid and advanced level positions.

Some other things to think about. How does your resume look? How are your interview skills? Are you convincing people to take you on?

VAHokie56

with zero experience in the networking tower I would say keep an open mind when it comes to the position you take. Many of us started as help desk or desk side tech's and worked into networking from there. In the long run I am really happy I did , it gives me a broad look into whats on the other end of my wire and its needs. Like networker said get in the door and show them your stuff and that you are willing to learn.

realdreams

networker050184 wrote: »

I was assuming that was a long term goal, but I agree. If you are trying to get into those types of positions now you are aiming too high.

Yeah it would be hard to get into IP engineering. What kind of position should I start at? It would be great if you can link some examples. For now, a NOC technician position would be great. But often even for NOC, it requires a few years of experience, sometimes experience with teleco circuits, optical networking like DWDM which is kinda hard to lab at home... I just pulled an example here

Oops that's actually a tier 2....

Qualifications/Skills:
5+ years experience providing customer and technical support.
5+ years experience with Cisco routers/switches (configuration and hardware support, IOS, TCP/IP), Access Lists, Circuit (T1/DS3/Sonet/Ethernet) Troubleshooting.
Extensive experience in working with routing protocols such as BGP, OSPF and RIPv2.
Experience with DWDM technology and concepts; Adva experience preferred.
Familiarity with IPv6.
Strong oral and written communication skills, ability to thrive in a fast paced team environment and multitask many ongoing issues simultaneously.
CCNA required as well as a strong desire to learn new networking technologies and willingness to pursue professional certifications (CCNP/CCSP/CCIE,BCNE/BCNP,JNCIA,JNCIS).

I don't think an IT helpdesk position (like install windows patches, fix printer, imaging laptops) is going to get me any closer to where I want to be..... unless it's in a company that actually has network engineers. I've done helpdesk before and didn't enjoy it. Most of my time was wasted on trivial stuff (like a missing pin in VGA cable)..

realdreams

Got CCNP certified today.... start looking for jobs again.... A linkedin search on BGP didn't give me that many options other than those companies that I never heard back from.... Dunno if they will give me a second chance.... Filing applications is a lot less fun than doing labs..

CodeBlox

Best of luck to you man... It sounds like you have been advertising yourself with CCNP and almost zero related work experience. Many folks start on a helldesk of some sort and either get promoted internally (Like me) into a networking role or leave the company when the opportunity arises. I've had the engineers here tell me that they've worked with horrible "Engineers" because they probably did not start on a helpdesk.