50 Mbps on copper?

About7Narwhal

Anyone got a second to explain how TDS can supply 50/20 Mbps from a DSL copper phone line to a fiber junction box? The rep I spoke to said as long as the copper has a short run, it will carry the 50/20 without issues to the fiber line. Perhaps I am being bias, but I always assumed DSL was slow and phone lines could not carry that large of a signal.

To put it another way:

TDS indicates they can provide me 50 Mbps down and 20 Mbps up from a standard copper phone jack in my townhouse that runs to a fiber junction box. How is this possible and what are the risks or downsides of DSL?

Thanks. (once I get moved in and settled next week I will be more active again!)

netsysllc

what kind of DSL there are different technologies vDSL2 can do 100/100 Very-high-bit-rate digital subscriber line - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

it_consultant

Also depends on the distance, if the copper run is short you can get very fast speeds over DSL.

NetworkVeteran

I'd add that 120Gbps over copper (not phone lines) is already out there. Copper is speedy given short runs!

About7Narwhal

As far as I can tell we are looking at RJ-11 from the junction to the townhouse, then Ethernet from there for LAN. The lines from the provider to the junction are fiber. He indicated that no new wire would be needed meaning that my existing phone will be used. My area does appear to be one of the TDS "Fiberville" deployments. I guess I was just under a misconception that RJ-11 had terrible throughput. My other concern would be latency. Does anyone know if DSL has better, worse, or average latency compared to Cable?

Thanks

ptilsen

RJ-11 isn't necessarily a limited factor. Jacks can be replaced. You're thinking termination, and that's the wrong thing to think of. The capacity of the lines run to facility in question are not limited in throughput by your endstation jacks.

Latency and throughput of DSL are going to relate heavily to the length of the run, interference, and the type of DSL used. It is impossible to compare to cable directly, which can have many factors. In general, cable ISPs provide better service for less money in the United States, but it would be a stretch to say that cable is simply better. The right DSL under the right conditions could be better than your cable options.

Asif Dasl

I was previously on DSL and I am now on cable and I am getting the same latency to 8.8.8.8 that I did before - on average 8ms. I agree with ptilsen that other factors determine your latency, throughput & options. We have rolled out both 70-down/20-up FTTC and 150-down/10-up FTTH cable in Ireland so I was interested in that link you provided netsysllc, thanks.

Fiber to the x - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

About7Narwhal

This is honestly a very eye opening thread. I had always dismissed DSL as a slower alternative to cable. But the prices and speeds in my area blow away Charter. I guess I will need to perform some extra research before I decide. I was unaware that higher speeds could be carried through existing phone cable at shorter distances. Also, thanks asif and netsysllc for the articles. I will have to take a look at those after work to better educate myself.

cruwl

I use to have 40Mb down and 5Mb up on dsl via copy phone lines in my old apt and currently have a 20Mb down on same thing. So to OP the sales guy at the DSL company is not lying to you its very possible.

About7Narwhal

Well that settles it then. I will have to ask how far the junction is from my unit, but I will likely go with it based on the information you guys have given me. The price difference is considerable compared to cable in this area. Here is hoping things turn out well.

Thanks again.

JasonIT

I work for an ISP. Let me help out a bit on this.

Max for ADSL over copper single pair is 24 MB down and 2 up. Usually you need annex mode to get the full 2 up
Bonding will double your download speed, but I believe 2 meg up give or take on ADSL is about the limit.

VDSL will max at about 100 meg down and around 10 up using 17A settings on single pair under 1000ft.
Bonding will double speed matched up with footage. 12A may be the most some routers will handle and that will decrease speed quite a bit. Usually on 12A on VDSL, 50 meg down is quiet a bit depending on footage.

You can also gain/lose speed depending on interface settings. Video settings for IPTV will slow down bandwidth, where settings for data only will increase.

Of course footage is always a big factor with copper. If you can give me the footage you are from a CO or remote, I can help get you a better judge of speed.

J

Priston

Is the cable cat 3 or cat 5?

xXErebuS

JasonIT wrote: »

I work for an ISP. Let me help out a bit on this.

Max for ADSL over copper single pair is 24 MB down and 2 up. Usually you need annex mode to get the full 2 up
Bonding will double your download speed, but I believe 2 meg up give or take on ADSL is about the limit.

VDSL will max at about 100 meg down and around 10 up using 17A settings on single pair under 1000ft.
Bonding will double speed matched up with footage. 12A may be the most some routers will handle and that will decrease speed quite a bit. Usually on 12A on VDSL, 50 meg down is quiet a bit depending on footage.

You can also gain/lose speed depending on interface settings. Video settings for IPTV will slow down bandwidth, where settings for data only will increase.

Of course footage is always a big factor with copper. If you can give me the footage you are from a CO or remote, I can help get you a better judge of speed.

J

I agree with this; you are more than likely referring to ADSL remember there are all types of flavors ADSL, SDSL, VDSL, ETC ETC

networker050184

They are probably using some form of ethernet over copper pair solution using a Hatteras, Overture, etc. like device. It's a common practice on the provider edge.

About7Narwhal

So, they could not hit the speeds I was looking for due to my dwelling type (multi). 15/2 was the best they had. It was a sad day, but I stashed away my pride and called Charter like calling an old girlfriend.

I appreciate the input, learned a lot about DSL.