Time to update skills--get a degree

zzyzxgal

Probably embedded in one of the threads is a situation similar to mine. But, I'm cutting right to the chase by asking my own question.

I'm a 48-year-old woman who's been working as a programmer since I was 18... wow... 30 years! Back then I was able to get a job by just knowing how to program and then getting a quick tech degree from a now defunct trade school. I've only worked for 2 companies in all that time and I've never been unemployed a day.

I should've been working to get a BSCS degree. But for most of this time I've lived far away from a university along with raising 4 daughters (two with autism, yikes!). I've worked part-time for the past 20 years.

Now, I'd like to get a full-time job. I've been programming in BASIC for 30 years on UNIX/LINUX systems used for medical/dental billing and records. Clearly I'm not marketable as a programmer today. So, I've been looking at my online education options and stumbled on WGU. To be honest...money's so tight, it's the only one I can even consider.

I thought I should do the BSIT-SE program to stay true to my programming roots. But, I've read so much on here about it being a nearly useless degree. Since I have so much programming experience, is there any way that this actually is the right degree for me? It just seems like a broader base and not so limiting as the others.

Job listings in my area ask for BSCS or a combination of applicable experience with a related BS degree for most programming spots. And various certifications are often listed.

What are your thoughts?

NetworkVeteran

Dear zzyzxgal,

First, I would not be so quick to discount your prior programming experienced based on languages used. The ability to create and execute an efficient design (that meets business goals, at a reasonable cost, that manages complexity, that's self-documented or well-documented for maintainability, and reasonably efficient) does not change so much from language to language. How large were your projects? What tools did you use? How much did you design vs. merely coding or updating existing code?

Second, I would agree that neither WGU's SE program nor certifications are ideal for your situation. Based on your answers to the above questions I would consider one of the following options, with the most focus on the second one--

A. Update your skill-set by learning a modern language. Say, C# w/ .NET. Make some show-off projects. This makes the most sense if you already have a shelf full of books on design patterns, algorithms, etc.

B. Improve your foundation and learn a new language by taking one or two Intro to Computer Science online courses. These are offered free online today with certificates by many top schools (MIT, Stanford, Berkeley, Harvard).

C. Enroll in an online Computer Science degree.

Many smaller businesses will take a shot on you if you can demonstrate (via a test project) the ability to crafty high-quality software in a short period of time using their target language and architecture.

ratbuddy

Wait, the IT-Software track from WGU is useless?

NetworkVeteran

I wouldn't say useless. I would say, from a quick glance at the program guide, there are better options for her.

For big companies, a CS degree tends to be the golden standard for programmers. For small companies, being able to excel at a test/demo project is often enough. Excelling at a couple online computer science courses from Berkeley/MIT/Standford/Harvard will probably help her develop the skills to accomplish that. I would probably aim for the latter at forty eight.

(Not to mention, students who truly excel, may get leads from the professors!)

petedude

Well,

Yes, the WGU BS-IT is narrow in scope in that they only heavily emphasize Java and Javascript, BUT--

At least they teach you UML, use cases and test cases. Keep all that documentation, and it is something to show an employer, no?

zzyzxgal

Ratbuddy, I should've said that a little less drastically...I meant that it might be useless in my case... Hopefully others here can shed more light on that.

NetworkVet-Thanks so much for your thoughtful response. Here are some answers...

Big projects come along about 4 times a year. The rest of the time I'm providing support and program modifications. I'm the only programmer in the company so I do the design, development, documentation, and implementation. As far as tools...none. Our Basic editor seems crude to me. I'm faster just typing the code in myself. (Seriously...I type 85 wpm)

I was trying to do like you suggested in A & B (except the MIT, Stanford, & Harvard route...didn't know they were for everyone). I've accumulated a lot of books and done a lot of free on-line courses. But my confidence is shaken. I feel like I'm missing some essential structural knowledge when it comes to relational databases and web programming...like I have to start over from scratch. I'm hoping a systematic approach to the subject will keep me from skipping critical clues to what I've missed on my own.

Without any kind of degree, I can't explain my knowledge concisely in the education section of my resume. HR friends I've spoken to think my resume will be chucked because I'm competing with a large pool of BS holders.

So... I'm looking for a BS that will get me past those gatekeepers. And at the same time I'm hoping to start over to really absorb these new languages and database structure.

But, now that you mention the MIT, etc programs I know I need to take a look at them. Maybe those programs have the methodical approach I've been trying to find.

Here's another thing, though. My confidence problem had me considering some other kind of IT job. What do you think of the other IT degrees from WGU and is there something there I should be looking at?

Thanks a bunch.

NetworkVeteran

For the learn on your own route--

https://www.edx.org/course/mit/6-00-1x/introduction-computer-science/1122

This actually begins tomorrow! A free intro to computer science course taught by the instructors from one of the top schools in the country. This will introduce a popular language and more importantly the fundamentals of software development. Expect instructor interaction and challenging projects! I would aim for one of the certificates w/ distinction.

Intro to Computer Science (as above)
https://www.udacity.com/course/st101 - Statistics

https://www.udacity.com/course/cs215 - Algorithms (required Intro to CS)
https://www.udacity.com/course/cs262 - Programming Languages (requires Intro to CS)

https://www.udacity.com/course/cs313 - Intro to Theoretical Computer Science (requires Intro to CS and Algorithms)
https://www.udacity.com/course/cs212 - Design of Computer Programs

Add in a couple electives (such as SaaS I & II which teach Ruby web development) and you're set.

The neat thing is you can take courses that teach the meat/foundation of CS from top instructors for free these days. Of course, if you're doing all that work, spending the $$ for the actual degree is also worth considering!

NetworkVeteran

Here's another thing, though. My confidence problem had me considering some other kind of IT job. What do you think of the other IT degrees from WGU and is there something there I should be looking at?

Sure! WGU is a good option if you're looking for a low-cost online school where you can get a degree and many IT certifications. You will still be able to apply your programming knowledge somewhat for automating tasks.

DissonantData

Have you considered a degree in Information Systems? It's basically a combination of business and computer science.

NetworkVeteran

Another viable option, if she likes management!

(The folks with the CS degrees or the certifications will typically decide the architecture/technical plans, but you could choose team members, allocate resources, set business goals, track projects, manage and report on progress, etc.)

An MIS degree program might cover from the above 1 math, 1 core CS, and 1 elective CS. Of course, otherwise they cover business-y and management-y stuff! If that's your cup of tea, that or an MBA are interesting.

zzyzxgal

NetVet, Thanks for the list of courses. It's a great blueprint. I signed up for the intro class that starts today and I'm really excited about it.

I'd already enrolled in WGU when I posted my question. I'm set to start Nov 1st. But, I was still uncertain about which degree to pursue so I was researching it. That's how I ran into a post comparing BS-CS to BSIT-SE from WGU here. I'd been using this site a lot in my decision to apply for WGU. But, I hadn't seen that discussion until yesterday. At this point I could back out of WGU. But, I still think a BS degree would help me. And WGU seems like the only way for me to do it because of the cost and ability to accelerate. I can't take a bunch of student loans. Debt is a huge concern at my age and so is time. But, then I'm limited to the degrees they offer which are all IT. Or I could switch to business IT but that still wouldn't be what DissonentData suggested.

As far as my business interests, I've held supervisory and project management positions. I did well in those roles. But, they're not what I prefer. At the same time, I never turn down an opportunity when I'm needed, which is why I had those jobs.

Here's what I'm thinking of doing... I get one of the IT degrees from WGU that will make me marketable for many jobs in my area. At the same time, I'll continue taking on-line courses that build my programming skills and try to integrate those new skills into my work so that I have that "on-the-job" application of new languages. By the time I graduate from WGU I should have a resume that clearly shows a BS plus programming experience in newer languages. Will it matter so much what my BS is in with that kind of experience? Or will I appear overqualified for IT Network Design jobs if that's all I can find?

Thanks so much for the great wisdom you all share here.

paul78

I am curious what type of full time job you are seeking? Is it programming as you are already doing or are you trying to get into a different area of IT? Have you tried just applying to programming jobs in the medical industry. Sureky you must have lots of valuable domain expertise. There is still a lot of work using MUMPS which isnt too different than BASIc if I recall.

zzyzxgal

I would love to stay in programming. I've kept an eye out for local jobs these past few years. I've inquired about anything that looked remotely close but the feedback I've gotten is that I either need on-the-job experience in one of the newer languages or a BS degree. If I could commute an hour away there might be more options, but I can't realistically do that with my responsibilities at home.

I feel pretty inadequate in general network stuff. Lots of jobs listed include that sort of thing in the description, even if the title is programmer. We call an independent guy to handle that stuff for our company. I don't do any of it.

I think working at the local hospital would be the best fit for me. Every job they list requires a BS in CS (or related field). It just kills me because sometimes the job really is something I could do right now... but I'm competing with hundreds of applicants that have a BS so my resume doesn't make it past the 1st level gatekeeper. I wonder if a BS in IT + my 30 years of medical system experience would finally get through to someone.

zzyzxgal

NetworkVeteran, I've just got to tell you how happy I am that you pointed me in this direction! I started the intro class yesterday. I thought it would be just so much obvious review to start with that I wouldn't really enjoy it until we got deeper into Python. But, I was wrong. It's been great out the gate. I love the way he's explaining things and even though it's stuff I already know, I love seeing it in a new way.

So.... THANK YOU!!!!!

Xonis1

Hi Zzyzxgal! I started WGU in BSIT:Software Oct 1st. Welcome aboard!

Welcome aboard! If you need a study buddy at somepoint give me a shout! I used udacity and loved it, also check out codeacedemy to help along the way.

paul78

zzyzxgal wrote: »

I wonder if a BS in IT + my 30 years of medical system experience would finally get through to someone.

I'm sure that it wouldn't hurt. Of the jobs that you applied for - do you think you could have done them? Perhaps with some of the self-study and your classes in WGU, you could continue to apply to jobs. If you aren't opposed to entry-level programming jobs, I bet you will eventually find one. Sometimes, it may just take time. I'm in my late 40's and I do often think of getting my BS as well but I have been very fortunate that it hasn't been an issue.

stryder144

I just started the EdX programming course, myself. I'm not sure if you've noticed, but that course is the first in a seven count of classes that can lead to an XSeries certificate. Once you complete all of the courses successfully, you will receive the certificate and knowledge in Python, Java, and design. That, along with the BSIT, will help to validate your skills, plus get you past the gatekeepers. Good luck!

As background, I, too, am in my forties and starting over. I am fortunate that I was able to get the CompTIA triple cert (A+, Sec+ and Net+) and then get into a job. Once I finish studying for my CCNA and SAP HANA certs, I will be jumping into getting my degree through WGU. That way, I can get past any gatekeeper who insists that the password is BSIT (or equivalent). Though, to be honest, I am thinking about pursuing a different bachelor degree and getting a masters through WGU. So many options that the GI Bill will pay for, it is hard to decide which will be the most advantageous to me.

Good luck with your studies and your job hunting!