How much does a school's prestige play a part in the IT world?

JaneDoe

dmarcisco wrote: »

I think people shouldn't beat themselves up over if one school is better then the other. If you are an MIT grad of course you will get looked at first over someone at a lower school but the reality is many people can't attend these prestigious due to cost/time/etc.

While people shouldn't beat themselves up over not going to Harvard/MIT/CMU/etc., those who have the opportunity to go should jump at it. Cost is a terrible reason not to apply to Harvard/CMU/MIT or other top tier schools. If you have the grades to get in, apply and see what aid your offered. Don't let the sticker price scare you away, because no one pays it. The only reason not apply is if you don't have the grades to get in (and most of us don't), or you can't drop everything for school as you would be required to.

olaHalo

The best part about prestigious schools is the connections and the name. The education you can get anywhere. (typically)
Sort of like the Harvard bar scene on Good Will Hunting.

So yeah it matters, but its not too important in most cases.

shodown

JaneDoe wrote: »

While people shouldn't beat themselves up over not going to Harvard/MIT/CMU/etc., those who have the opportunity to go should jump at it. Cost is a terrible reason not to apply to Harvard/CMU/MIT or other top tier schools. If you have the grades to get in, apply and see what aid your offered. Don't let the sticker price scare you away, because no one pays it. The only reason not apply is if you don't have the grades to get in (and most of us don't), or you can't drop everything for school as you would be required to.

I disagree with you on cost. I know a few people who went to schools like Cornell, MIT, Harvard and Penn State, (if you live in the DMV you can't throw a rock and not hit one)they all owe over 100K in student loan debt, and one of them owes 350K from under grand and grad school. He currently makes around 145K, price in the cost of living in the DC area, loan payments your life is not going to be the same if you don't move up the food chain and trust me a majority don't make it up the corporate ladder too many graduates leaving these programs and not enough jobs for them all.

Iristheangel

I agree with shodown. If you're going to go for a business degree, law degree, medical degree, banking. you want to become a CEO, etc, then sure! Go for the most expensive top tier school you can find. Good for you and that'll probably help you in the long run just with contacts you meet alone. In those industries, what school you went to really matters and certifications are either non-existent or not as important. You can be more competitive with top tier MBAs for finance positions that pay 200-300K right off the bat so that's a great ROI if you can get it.

But for an network/security/systems engineer looking to get an IT/CS/EE/CIS/etc degree? Let's be realistic. What would you consider success from those degrees? 6-figures? The ability to consult making $150/hr? You won't get getting that right out of college and you can achieve the same or similar results in your IT career with a mix of certifications and experience. I've met too many people in the IT field with random degrees in music, journalism, etc or from random universities who were making well past the $200K mark. Heck... look at Scott Morris - 4x CCIE and a degree in political science.

I hope I don't sound like I'm against degrees or top tier schools by any means but you have to be realistic after a certain point. Those schools definitely require a financial and time commitment so if you're 19 and can get in with reasonable cost, why not? But if you're an adult learner past a certain age, it's probably more beneficial to you to maximize your time by getting experience while you're going for your degree and/or certifications. You might miss out on a few things not going to a top tier school such as contacts but you're going to be in an awesome place if you walk out with your degree, 4 years of work experience, and a few certs. You could easily make new industry contacts without school by attending local chapters, meetups, groups, chatting on forums like TE/Linkedin, etc and you could have a 6-figure job after 4 years of solid work experience

instant000

N2IT wrote: »

I see a lot of people who don't have big named degrees commenting but not the other a around. Interesting.

If I had a big name degree, I probably wouldn't be working in a capacity where IT certifications were useful to me. In that case, I would not be likely to visit a site like techexams.net.

Legacy User

JaneDoe wrote: »

While people shouldn't beat themselves up over not going to Harvard/MIT/CMU/etc., those who have the opportunity to go should jump at it. Cost is a terrible reason not to apply to Harvard/CMU/MIT or other top tier schools. If you have the grades to get in, apply and see what aid your offered. Don't let the sticker price scare you away, because no one pays it. The only reason not apply is if you don't have the grades to get in (and most of us don't), or you can't drop everything for school as you would be required to.

Let me elaborate I think you missed my point I didn't mean a student that gets accepted or has the credentials to be accepted to be afraid to pursue it because of the price. I would say we are in agreement. I agree with you saying if you get accepted to go and do it. It will be a great opportunity and will open up many doors. But what I meant was that for the working adult not a high school grad going to these top tier schools isn't exactly feasible with family/work/bills/etc. Sometimes life gets in the way and people out of high school cannot pursue the college dream which can get put off of for a few years.

Let me try to swing it back around to the OP. I think everything branched off to another direction.

The OP stated "Does a person's choice in a school for a technical Master's degree matter all that much? Opinions? Examples? Is there really a huge difference overall in an MSIT from Carnegie Mellon or one from WGU?"

Theres always a difference but while I do not know much about the OP experience or goals I do know it all can vary on the position that the person is applying too. Depending on the company management positions may look for prestige with experience while most tech positions look for the experience you can immediately bring to the table. Some places may care some may not if you can go to a better school then do it why **** yourself.

To be honest the concern I have is a young college student reading this thread and taking a few peoples opinion too literal. Which could easily have them believe that they are wasting there time in whatever non-prestigious school they are enrolled in and they drop out or something because they believe @SomeGuy55 said "if you don't go to a prestigious school then you are wasting your money and won't find a job".

JaneDoe

dmarcisco wrote: »

To be honest the concern I have is a young college student reading this thread and taking a few peoples opinion too literal. Which could easily have them believe that they are wasting there time in whatever non-prestigious school they are enrolled in and they drop out or something because they believe @SomeGuy55 said "if you don't go to a prestigious school then you are wasting your money and won't find a job".

I agree with this. If you aren't one of the few people who can get in and attend a top tier school, that's no reason to give up on school all together.

I wouldn't want a young person reading this who has the grades for Harvard/CMU/MIT not to apply because they think it's too expensive, when in all likelihood financial aid will cover a lot of the bill, because some guy on a forum said school name doesn't make a difference.

Legacy User

I think if the young person has the grades, extracurricular activities, and such to get accepted to these top tier schools considering the schools are extremely selective then they know what they are doing and won't get swayed by some comments on a public forum. So there is no need to worry about that.

JaneDoe

shodown wrote: »

...too many graduates leaving these programs and not enough jobs for them all.

That couldn't be further from the truth, if we're talking about only top tier schools, and not average and state schools. The programs I'm talking about are highly exclusive, and there are plenty of jobs for their graduates. There are a couple thousand graduates from top tier schools a year, and they are in high demand.

dmarcisco wrote:

I think if the young person has the grades, extracurricular activities, and such to get accepted to these top tier schools considering the schools are extremely selective then they know what they are doing and won't get swayed by some comments on a public forum. So there is no need to worry about that.

Some people, like the OP, may not realize they could get into a school like that, don't know what the advantages of going are compared to cheaper schools, and some people are scared away by the sticker price. If someone does well in school and doesn't come from a background that encourages them to try to apply to schools like that (so they have to look it up online) they should know what the advantages are. This isn't the first time I've seen a question like this on this forum, and I see a lot of responses that aren't encouraging.

People applying to top tier schools should know what they're getting into, but they should also know what the stakes are.

lawrence_of_arabia

rsutton wrote: »

At my company I screen a few hundred resumes a week for entry level to senior positions & I will share my process with you.

For entry level positions I usually get 300+ resumes. For these positions I screen by looking at (in order or relevance): 1) School Name - online universities, community colleges are out. I can afford to be picky based on the volume of resumes. 2) formatting - spelling, grammar, layout etc 3) experience

For mid level positions I screen by looking at 1) primarily experience, 2) Certifications, 3) School Name - same as above, 4) resume layout - same as above

For senior level positions I screen by looking at 1) almost exclusively experience, 2) Certifications, 3) resume layout, 4) School name - same as above

At least you put certs and experience before a degree for higher level positions. I can't count the number of morons I've worked with who have degrees from reputable colleges. I feel like a lot of companies are finally starting to realize that degrees in general don't really define a person's ability to think critically, solve problems quickly, and demonstrate excellent work ethic. Another thing- do you actually type in names of colleges when you scan resumes? You do use software to scan keywords within resumes, right?

shodown

JaneDoe wrote: »

That couldn't be further from the truth, if we're talking about only top tier schools, and not average and state schools. The programs I'm talking about are highly exclusive, and there are plenty of jobs for their graduates. There are a couple thousand graduates from top tier schools a year, and they are in high demand.

Some people, like the OP, may not realize they could get into a school like that, don't know what the advantages of going are compared to cheaper schools, and some people are scared away by the sticker price. If someone does well in school and doesn't come from a background that encourages them to try to apply to schools like that (so they have to look it up online) they should know what the advantages are. This isn't the first time I've seen a question like this on this forum, and I see a lot of responses that aren't encouraging.

People applying to top tier schools should know what they're getting into, but they should also know what the stakes are.

I'm basing this off real experience. Like I said I live in DC and you can't throw a rock without hitting one. Are most of them employed? Yes. Are they working in jobs they got from there MBA's? This is where the number starts to drop off. My wife graduated from a top economics program, then did a fellowship at a top school, then a graduate program at big name school(not top tier, but name recognition) and could have went to a Top Tier PHD program. However when she did the ROI, it didn't make since. She wanted to be married, buy a home and the amount of debt we would have carried vs what she would have made with a PHD didn't make since. My wife is just one person, but several of her friends have come to the same conclusion.


You have to figure out why you are going to these schools and what you want from them. If you just want the money, I think its a bad decision. If you want the name, plan on being a CEO, run for office then it makes since. If you want to be a IT geek, than that type of money on education is just not a wise decision.

datacomboss

Iristheangel wrote: »

But for an network/security/systems engineer looking to get an IT/CS/EE/CIS/etc degree? Let's be realistic. What would you consider success from those degrees? 6-figures? The ability to consult making $150/hr? You won't get getting that right out of college and you can achieve the same or similar results in your IT career with a mix of certifications and experience. I've met too many people in the IT field with random degrees in music, journalism, etc or from random universities who were making well past the $200K mark. Heck... look at Scott Morris - 4x CCIE and a degree in political science.

The great thing about the computer industry is its constant evolution. It provides opportunities for those who stay current and threats for those who don't. My first job was doing COBOL programming on a DEC VAX mainframe after I graduated from a top CS/IS school in 1992. Back then, it was more about the degree, because certifications didn't really exist in the way they do now. Certifications just matter a lot more today. I am an IT director in Healthcare and although all of my staff possess bachelor's degrees, I really don't care where they went to school as long as it is accredited. I do care though what certifications and experience they have.

bull313

My two cents is to look into Georgia Tech. Prestige at an affordable price.

kohr-ah

shodown wrote: »

You have to figure out why you are going to these schools and what you want from them. If you just want the money I think its a bad decision. If you want the name, plan on being a CEO, run for office then it makes since. If you want to be a IT geek that type of money on education is just not a wise decision

I think this puts it best.

If I had the chance I would of gone to a 4 year school that would of possibly made it easier to get my foot in the door at lot of places but my goal now is to get my experience (i've had a few lucky breaks) and make sure my daughter has a better chance than I do.

linuxlover

I had to rethink my opinion on this. Naturally I would be in favor of attending college, but that's years ago, these days not so much. First let's distinguish between technical and non-technical degrees. A degree is a piece of paper saying you have the necessary knowledge to perform work and that's legal requirement in some fields such as law, medicine, healthcare, education...but these are all non-technical fields. Technical fields are IT, engineering, construction...this is where a degree is not a requirement anymore (it used to be), instead experience took its place.

Times are changing, you need to realize that, and we're living in a world where limiting yourself to one area of expertise is getting outdated and will vanish completely in the following years. Today, you need to know multiple things, instead of just one, if you want to survive in this world of tough competition. When it comes to technology, it's changing really fast and sometimes it's even hard to keep up with. If you apply that to traditional education you can see how flawed the current system it. By the time you get out of college, some concepts will be on a verge of being abandoned and you spent 4 years (3 years in EU) learning that stuff and not only that, you're getting out with a debt to pay off.

Now, I'm not against formal education, I have Associate's in Informatics, but as far as IT is concerned, I don't think it's worth much these days because employers want people who can do the job, not know a lot about it. Time is money and you can take it from there. Take two fictional guys for example, one if attending college pursuing a degree in computer science and another one is going straight to work. After four years the first one will have a degree and the second one will have four years of work experience... I think you get my point and I believe it's a valid one.

Experience, experience, experience!

dmoore44

I don't know... I finished my BS at UMUC, and since I got out of the military, i've worked for a government contractor, was then hired by the government, quit and got another job as a government contractor, and just accepted a job at a big tech company away (not related to government, finally)... My degree obviously hasn't hurt me and it allows recruiters to check the box and pass my resume on to a hiring manager.

So far, i've found that the most useful items on my resume have been experience + certs. I've never had a question about school, and the only time it comes up is when I'm forced to bring it up.

msteinhilber

Prestige or not, I think the best course of action would be to find a school that isn't going to set you back an obscene amount of money. I see no point in going deep into debt just to get a degree regardless of where it's from. There are a lot of for-profit schools out there whom cater largely to working adults, these are often going to lack prestige. They're also going to often cost much more than you might spend at a state run school, because they are trying to cater to a niche market of students where a state run school often isn't feasible or will take a long time and they lure them in with hopes and dreams as they borrow their way through school. If one really wants a degree, I'd suggest looking for a state run option where if you have to spend more time to complete it (if you're also working full time). Prestige, to me, just isn't worth it unless you have the capability to afford it easily with minimal amounts of borrowed money.

Frankly, I don't see any benefit to my degree. Perhaps it has had me considered for employment when I have looked around for a job change, I couldn't tell you. I obtained my present job before I had any degree and I still remain there. I'm frustrated by the current paradigm being pushed down the throats of today's youth, that you have to have a degree to be successful. Meanwhile loans are handed out to anyone and everyone and thus with all that cash being made available, the cost of tuition keeps skyrocketing. I made the mistake earlier in my life of financing the bulk of my education, there is not a day that goes by where I do not deeply regret it. I let myself be sold on a for-profit education so I paid out the back end big time for it - with borrowed money. Fast forward to the future and I'm not living in a two income household like I was at the time when I started down that path. Now I'm a single man again with a single income and a chunk of my income going to my ex. Paying back student loans hasn't been an option for several years now. At this rate, I'll be paying off my loans for decades. Hardly something I would suggest to anyone.

I'm not against furthering your academic education, just completely against borrowing money to do so. So in summary, buy the best education your dollar can buy. Preferably dollars you didn't have to borrow or at the least keep your borrowed dollars to an absolute minimum. Because let me tell you, it's no fun going through life watching interest accumulate on your loans in forbearance or doing your best to keep payments flowing in as you can while fielding calls from the lender demanding payment because the money you anticipated being there to help pay your loans isn't there.

JaneDoe

The online for profit schools are scams and degree mills and should be avoided at all costs.

Some schools that don't have the prestige of top-tier schools charge as much as the top tier schools, without giving their students a way to pay it back, and those should be avoided. Paying Ivy League prices for an Ivy League education is a great investment, and no one should be afraid to apply to Ivy League or Top Tier schools because of money.

To clarify here, by Top Tier, I mean the Ivy League and maybe the next top 20 schools in the country.

blargoe

Iristheangel wrote: »

I agree with shodown. If you're going to go for a business degree, law degree, medical degree, banking. you want to become a CEO, etc, then sure! Go for the most expensive top tier school you can find. Good for you and that'll probably help you in the long run just with contacts you meet alone. In those industries, what school you went to really matters and certifications are either non-existent or not as important. You can be more competitive with top tier MBAs for finance positions that pay 200-300K right off the bat so that's a great ROI if you can get it.

But for an network/security/systems engineer looking to get an IT/CS/EE/CIS/etc degree? Let's be realistic. What would you consider success from those degrees? 6-figures? The ability to consult making $150/hr? You won't get getting that right out of college and you can achieve the same or similar results in your IT career with a mix of certifications and experience. I've met too many people in the IT field with random degrees in music, journalism, etc or from random universities who were making well past the $200K mark. Heck... look at Scott Morris - 4x CCIE and a degree in political science.

I hope I don't sound like I'm against degrees or top tier schools by any means but you have to be realistic after a certain point. Those schools definitely require a financial and time commitment so if you're 19 and can get in with reasonable cost, why not? But if you're an adult learner past a certain age, it's probably more beneficial to you to maximize your time by getting experience while you're going for your degree and/or certifications. You might miss out on a few things not going to a top tier school such as contacts but you're going to be in an awesome place if you walk out with your degree, 4 years of work experience, and a few certs. You could easily make new industry contacts without school by attending local chapters, meetups, groups, chatting on forums like TE/Linkedin, etc and you could have a 6-figure job after 4 years of solid work experience

Have to agree with Iris here. I think for most people here, the "geeks" as someone else said, it usually will not make sense to incur the enourmous debt for an top-tier master's program. I personally have a degree from a B&M public university, and right now my only limiting factor is that I choose to be available for all of my kid's sports, family functions, want to sleep in my own bed at night, and I love the semi-rural location in which I live. I have enough money.

N2IT

Jane we just hired a new hire at work on a contract who graduated from a top 50 CS program and makes 80,000 easy, it's their first job! I've seen it happen too many times not to buy into it. I think top 50 within your specialization is just fine. Southern Illinois is a okay school nothing great, but their aviation program I believe is fantastic. If you graduate from there it's straight to the Navy or Air Force into their flight program. My point is I think you have to look at the school and the program as well. But I agree Jane.

JaneDoe

I think having a bachelors from a decent B&M school (and by decent I don't just mean top-tier, but most state schools, and many nonprofit private universities), can trump a masters from an online degree mill.

N2IT, many schools beyond the top tier schools I mentioned are great schools, but I would spend more time considering the costs and benefits of schools outside of the top tier.

aaron0011

Some great posts here already.

In the IT field from a technical standpoint, a degree only will only take you so far. I don't care what name is on it. It all comes down to aptitude and talent. If you have it, you'll be successful and make money.

It's a waste of money to get a degree from a highly prestigious school if you're interested in doing the things discussed daily on this forum. If you can get into and afford MIT then you should have higher aspirations than supporting a server or designing a network with existing technology.

FWIW, I only have an AAS and made 6 figures before turning 30. I would like to think If I had the opportunity to attend MIT, Harvard, etc. I wouldn't be doing what I do now, would be making more money, and not posting in this thread.

Bjmach

I think each individual situation is unique. Are B&M schools better than online? Up to the person reviewing the resume etc.... Take my situation for example, I joined the Air Force 20 yrs ago out of High School at the age of 18, I just finished my Bachelors last year. Here I am 20 yrs later with a ton of experience and a bachelors degree, does that give me a leg up against a guy that went to a prestigious school and just graduated with no experience? With all the deployments, a family, 10 different military moves to different states and my normal day to day duties over the last 20 yrs, I just did not have the time to attend a B&M school. Luckily the online school gave me the oppurtunity to achieve a Bachelors Degree which otherwise I probably would not have yet. Now when I enter the work force next year I'm hoping that when they review my resume they notice all the experience, certifications and degree and more importantly that I just didn't sit back and stay comfortable I continued to pursue a degree with the opportunities that were afforded me. The Air Force paid for my degree 100% I would have had to been a fool not to jump all over that. In some aspects it was harder completing the degree completely online and having to self study. In the end, I don't think whether the school was prestigous or whether it was online vs B&M really makes a difference. You go after what is presented in front of you and do the best you can with those options.

linuxlover

It makes difference in people's heads, not in reality. It's all about the ego. There are exceptions, however, like world's best universities that cost an arm and a leg to attend, but those are exceptions. I've done my degree half in B&M and half online, because I took a job offer so I couldn't attend classes during the day. I was lucky that my Faculty offered distance learning so I could finish it while working full time. The program is completely the same, the only difference is that it was a lot harder for me to finish the last year "online" because I was literally left to myself, there were no more classmates to turn to, no more raising hand asking questions, no more tutor meetings every Tuesday...

JaneDoe

linuxlover wrote: »

It makes difference in people's heads, not in reality.

That's all it's about. The people whose heads it makes a difference in are hiring managers who have power over our lives.

Typically you need a degree to get experience. Your degree determines the quality of your first job, which determines the quality of your next job and so on. If you have great experience without a degree, the prestige of the university you get your degree from matters a lot less. For people relatively new to the field/work force, the prestige of the institution you get a degree from matters a lot more.

egrizzly

when you're talking about IT leadership the name of the school weighs a whole lot. There has actually been talks of some hiring managers who have preference for candidates from a "club" of schools. e.g. top state schools like Louisiana State, Florida State, University of Texas, e.t.c

anoeljr

People ask this everyday and you're going to get different answers. The main thing is that you get your education. You are the one who decides if you're successful. Stop worrying so much about what others think. Like they say, opinions are like buttholes, everyone has one.

Cert Poor

Eh, the private school I started out for undergrad had a somewhat well known CompSci department, among other types of Engineering, and it was cool to regularly attend seminars (free pizza!) hosted by Google and Microsoft recruiters. Free software too like Windows 2000 and XP, Office, Visual Studio .NET beta (before 1.0!), free XBox prizes, and while the coursework was very good and a good foundation in architecture, OS kernel, basic C++ programming, data structures, digital logic and hardware assembler programming, honestly a lot of it is outdated or obsolete by the time one graduates.

In other words, a lot of the traditional "old school" computer science or computer engineering curricula doesn't translate well to the real world except for development. So while there were definitely opportunities to make contacts with Google, Microsoft, and the rest of Silicon Valley (and some landed cushy jobs doing mostly development stuff), for any regular IT career outside of development, the coursework was meaningless.

I've learned more teaching myself + on the job than literally everything I've learned in undergrad. And I'm stuck with over $100K in student loan debt, half of which are evil private loans.

Prestige can help when it comes to networking and contacts and landing some very good jobs, but for most of the vanilla IT jobs out there, experience and adaptability are king.

The big name engineering schools are good for engineering jobs (mechanical, electrical, chemical, computer, nuclear, civil, biomedical etc.) which I consider a separate field than IT.

In summary: If I had to do it all over again, I would have slapped myself in the face to forget about prestige and gone with a good state university with all the full-ride scholarships I had INSTEAD of obsessing over prestige. My student loan debt has really screwed up my 20's and getting "started" in life.

If you want prestige, go to a more prestigious school for a Master's or PhD (or professional degree) instead of the BS degree, which is mostly a lot of BS.