Negotiating wages in current company

markulous

In a few weeks I will be coming up on my 90 days at my current position. I was hired through a recruiter and after 90 days they will bring me on permanently. I was told by one of the team leads that I am able to negotiate what my pay will be and that it won't necessarily be what I'm making now. What number should I aim for?

A little about the situation: I'm making $15 an hour at the moment and as you can see I am in Denver. Initially I was hired on with for this help desk position to do about a dozen jobs (password resets, malware scans, very basic stuff, etc.) with a window of 15 minutes (with just a couple of exceptions), however new processes were literally added every single day and now it's full end-user support. Mobile devices, laptops, PCs, remoting into printers, etc. That 15 minute window is basically out the window (no pun intended) and we have pretty much free reign. We do use a terminal server for AD issues (new user creation, rights, vpn, etc.) but other than that we do not troubleshoot any server issues. I got hired on with a guy that is one position above me and he told me that his wage through the recruiting company is $32 an hour (no idea what they make after that). The only real difference is that he troubleshoots servers, everything else is the same.

About me: I have an Associate's in IT and I'm working on my Bachelor's at WGU. I have a MTA cert and I am studying for my Security+. Prior to this I volunteered online at a remote help desk for about a year. I have 3 months experience at a very basic help desk and then another 3 months as an internal PC Tech where I helped them migrate from XP to 7.

I think $15 is a little bit underpaid considering the gap between what the next position makes. Granted I don't troubleshoot DHCP, IIS, etc., but I am not sure what to aim for here. I have never been in this position. Not to be boastful, but I do really well at my job and I am the best person at my position. I was thinking maybe $22 an hour? If he goes down to $20, then I'd say okay? If he says $16 or $17, is it really fair that the other guys are making $15-$20 more(serious question, not rhetorical at all)?

BGraves

Based on what you say above, I can suggest...

Recruiters tend to make money off the candidates they find and place for a company. They might be getting paid 20-25hr for placing you. So if you get hired on by the company, it's possible you will see a wage increase.

It's also possible the company will have a predefined rate set for your position and you won't see much.

You could try to negotiate higher based on your technical/soft skills, experience, motivation. It may not work. Generally entry level jobs have much less negotiating room/power than higher level positions.

Frankly, if you got hired by a recruiter and you work at a place you don't hate and you're building experience and learning...sounds like you were lucky. You can always ask how they handle raises if you do get hired on in a full time position.

To...answer your last question.

Life isn't fair.
You don't determine your own hourly rate based on what a company is willing to pay someone else in a different position.
His experience and skills might be much more than your own, he might know the owner, he might negotiate better, they might have been desperate to recruit someone in that position, the recruiter might require a certain base rate for locating/placing someone with those skills.

My opinion is that knowing what someone else makes is the quickest way to start comparing yourself to them, getting butthurt about it, and leads to overall general unhappiness. None of these things are good for a job you've only been at for 3 months.

The only plus from this is, if you were to stay with the company and move in to that position, you would have an idea of what they paid your predecessor and could negotiate based on that.

markulous

Thank you for your reply.

I think I am not being understood completely. Let me clarify.

After I get hired on full-time, I go to the director and I negotiate my wage. There is not a set wage for this position and we will go into negotiations in a couple of weeks. I'm not doing this because I'm bitter or upset in any way, I'm doing this because it's a required step in the hiring process. I am just looking for a number to go in with and what my wage should be. For instance, if they were paying the recruiter $25 an hour, they may not mind paying me $20.

I'm not giving anyone an ultimatum here. If down the road I feel I'm overqualified or underpaid for this position and I am not able to move up, then I will move on, but now is definitely not that time.

no!all!

When you go full time you'll probably get an increase. I'd expect between $17-$20...get your Security+, more expereince, finish up WGU and peace out...

BGraves

Thanks for clarifying. It's really difficult for any of us to tell you what to expect, or what kind of $ you should shoot for. A lot of that depends on your location, position, company, your skills and experience, etc.

You could try to do a search online, look for jobs similar to yours in the same area as yours. See what other companies are offering for the same/similar position. Glassdoor.com, etc. Then you have an idea of what to expect should you get hired on full time and you have some ammo when you go in for "negotiations". And hell, if things don't go your way and you know some other company is offering more, it wouldn't hurt to float your resume over and see what they think.

Another option would be to talk with your recruiting company and see if they have any insight, as they may have placed people in your position previously or in similar positions in other companies. Perhaps they would be willing to tell you what they make, or provide advice on what range you should expect.

Best of luck!

markulous

Thanks for the suggestions. I think $17-$20 sounds about right and I will definitely look at glass door.

Is this like salary negotiations when someone with experience comes in with a company? I.e. do I give him a higher number that I expect so that he comes down? I don't have a ton of leverage and I'm not trying to be demanding, so I'm thinking just go with the number I think is good and see what his thoughts are.

puertorico1985

Generally, as a contractor, the hiring company pays double what you currently make (this is assuming you did not negotiate a higher rate with the contracting company) I say this as I was once a contractor, and the general rule is that if you are making $15/hour, then I would safely assume that the contracting company is making ~$30/hour (give or take a few dollars). With that said, I would imagine that you could negotiate at around the $22-$25/hour mark.

Take everything I said with a grain of salt, because I could be completely wrong. The above is said from my perspective only. I worked as a contractor for 4 different companies, and this was what I learned as the general rule. There is a possibility that the contracting company decided to make less when they hired you. Who knows.

malikhan292

I guess recruiter will be getting at least 2x times of what you getting paid. If this was agreed during hiring that pay will be review once probation is over then take this matter back to the recruiter and negotiate. Good luck.

markulous

The recruiter had straight up lied to me. At first he said it would be 18 or 19 an hour, then said I would be at 15 but get periodic raises as soon as I was hired. Neither of which was true.

If they are really paying twice what I'm getting paid, then I think $20+ is more than fair. I don't think they have a ton of benefits and I know I have to pay a premium for insurance.

mikeybikes

Hello fellow Denverite.

If it helps, I started out on helpdesk with an equivalent of $23.50ish/hr for a law firm in downtown. I was definitely salaried though, so I thought of it as $49K/yr. Wages in downtown are a little higher than elsewhere and being a law firm, it pays a little bit more.

markulous

mikeybikes wrote: »

Hello fellow Denverite.

If it helps, I started out on helpdesk with an equivalent of $23.50ish/hr for a law firm in downtown. I was definitely salaried though, so I thought of it as $49K/yr. Wages in downtown are a little higher than elsewhere and being a law firm, it pays a little bit more.

I work downtown as well. I looked on glassdoor and the average for a help desk position in Denver is about $18 an hour. Seeing as how they pay above average, I think they may pay more.

What were your responsibilities?

mikeybikes

My responsibilities included everything from answering the helpdesk phone, running up to the floor to fix broken things, deploying PCs, imaging PCs, visiting remote offices every once in awhile. We even did a little bit of printer repair (replace rollers, maintenance kits, etc), but usually called our vendor in for the big printer repairs (power supplies, stupid stuff). There was a little bit of sys-admining stuff, but that was only because I showed interest.

markulous

mikeybikes wrote: »

My responsibilities included everything from answering the helpdesk phone, running up to the floor to fix broken things, deploying PCs, imaging PCs, visiting remote offices every once in awhile. We even did a little bit of printer repair (replace rollers, maintenance kits, etc), but usually called our vendor in for the big printer repairs (power supplies, stupid stuff). There was a little bit of sys-admining stuff, but that was only because I showed interest.

Okay, so you had similar responsibilities. We don't physically handle any hardware issues since we are strictly remote, however. I'd be surprised if he gave me 23.50, I think that's a little on the high side, but I don't think $20 is out of the question either.

TomkoTech

I would highly doubt this company is paying a staffing firm $30 an hour for what started as a very basic tier 1 helpdesk position. My guess would be they are only paying the staffing firm $20ish an hour.

With that said it sounds like they are hiring you full time. As in it's a done deal. You just have to both agree on a salary. I would walk in there and start with what you feel is the upper level pay for the position. For example if $23.50 is the high side in your area, tell them you are looking to get $23. I am sure they will say you were making $15 for the same job. Why don't we bump you to $18. To which you retort $20 and then live happily ever after until you find a better position

Point being is that if you already KNOW you have the job they aren't going to laugh you out of the office asking for too much. They will tell you whether or not that is outside of their range and why.

markulous

TomkoTech wrote: »

I would highly doubt this company is paying a staffing firm $30 an hour for what started as a very basic tier 1 helpdesk position. My guess would be they are only paying the staffing firm $20ish an hour.

With that said it sounds like they are hiring you full time. As in it's a done deal. You just have to both agree on a salary. I would walk in there and start with what you feel is the upper level pay for the position. For example if $23.50 is the high side in your area, tell them you are looking to get $23. I am sure they will say you were making $15 for the same job. Why don't we bump you to $18. To which you retort $20 and then live happily ever after until you find a better position

Point being is that if you already KNOW you have the job they aren't going to laugh you out of the office asking for too much. They will tell you whether or not that is outside of their range and why.

Ah, that is the information I am looking for. So since I already have the job, there is no reason to not aim high and negotiate from there? I am unsure how to diplomatically say this (I've never done it before). Maybe, "After researching similar jobs in the area, I've noticed that several companies are paying helpdesks with full end-user support $23 an hour. I feel that I'm worth it because etc etc..."? And if he says $18, then say, "Perhaps we can meet close to the middle and go to $20 an hour?" I don't know that I should bring up the wage for the people in the next position up as that may cause conflicts and if my information is incorrect, then I will look foolish.

rsutton

I don't know how much experience you have but if this is your first job OR you have less than a couple years of experience, you don't have much negotiating power. That being said, you should expect a small bump when going from contract to direct hire. You should also consider other compensation you may receive when going to direct hire such as benefits, overtime, reimbursement, bonuses etc.

markulous

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get much of a raise. The current contract that we have was for a service desk that basically had a 15-minute window with only a dozen tasks. Once they renegotiate the contract I'll see if I can get a larger raise. As of now, he said 18 was out of the question. Once the client pays for full end-user support, I'd think we should see some of it.

ande0255

So you didn't get hired on as a direct hire? Or what do you mean by when the client renews the contract, if you don't mind me asking?

markulous

ande0255 wrote: »

So you didn't get hired on as a direct hire? Or what do you mean by when the client renews the contract, if you don't mind me asking?

I did get hired on, I mean the client that we service (i.e. the users). They pay a monthly fee, but it's reflecting less service than we are giving them now (if that makes sense).

hellolin

I just got offered an intern position here in Los Angeles with one of the biggest local dot com, and even being a part time help desk intern I will be getting paid $16 a hour, I think you are underpaid

LionelTeo

hired through a recruiter

Are you going onto the company directly or are you going to hired as being an outsource? This is very important, because there is little benefit being in an outsource company. The recruiter will absorb in 30% of your salary and let you left with peanuts. If you are going direct, then the direct company shoulder the payment to the recruiter and not cut into your salary, if the company is unable shoulder the payment to the recruiter and cut into your salary, this tells a lot about the budget problem the company your in has, and if you think in the long run, you would be at a disavantages, they already do not have enough month to give you your deserve pay. Do you think they can even give you a good increment and career progression?

The recruiter had straight up lied to me. At first he said it would be 18 or 19 an hour, then said I would be at 15 but get periodic raises as soon as I was hired. Neither of which was true.

Warren Buffet once said "Honesty is a very expensive gift, don't expect it from cheap people". If you are working with a dishonest recruiter, I clean him from my contacts and probably won't want to have any future dealings with him.

What number should I aim for?

I always aim for a value that is simply slightly lower than the market rate, I will look up glassdoor and payscale and ask a little lower and bargain with the recruiter that the usual market rate is XX and given my lesser experience I believe I had ask a lower price then what you expected. Let them bring up their best budget. This work better if your applying for multiple jobs then its easier because you can also go for the best choice among all the interviews.

As of now, he said 18 was out of the question. Once the client pays for full end-user support, I'd think we should see some of it.

I would say post your resume on job sites and go to update and click save so your resume is bump up to the top of the page everyday, wait for calls from new recruiter and get a new good paying job. Also, start doing your linkedin profile up and connecting to recruiters or at least gather your recruiter list.


Here is my two cents and personal story in negeotating pay. If you are good in experience wise and academically, the company will pay even if you ask below the market rate. From my first job to my second job, I asked for only a 10% pay increment for a job change, there is no chance I can think of asking more as what I grasp from the market rate. When the offer came back to me, I got a 40% increment to the next position instead.

For my next position, I asked for a 30% increment to my next position, I cited how much the lowest CISSP earns on average and I simply ask for a slightly higher amount, the staffing team inform my request its my expectation is quite high would come back to me on it, to my surprise despite saying that they decided to offer me an even more amount (a very out of league expectation) base my certs and my experience after considering how much I can contribute. Its not about how much the increment its, I want to let you know if the company can pay, the company will pay.

If your conned by a dishonest recruiter and being in a company only caring about p/l and not the general service of the team nor keeping the staff as with the team as long as possible, the company will pay you as low as possible so they can absorb as much profit in their pockets. Its not that p/l is a bad business strategy, p/l is good for newly startups or bad times so the company will float as long as possible and make a comeback, but once the company its in a peak and if they don't start rewarding their employees, their quality employee will leaves, and result in the company stop innovating and service drops, eventually and they will go back being a poor company that can't pays.

Open your eyes and look at the world, look at google compare to some of its competitor on web and mobile market, which company do you think pays the employees better given when the company its at its peak performance? Obviously Google has a has a way to keep talents better than other company, I believe you can imagine how they do it, company that couldn't keep keep its talents and care about that momentarily p/l; its talents leaves, now they left being scrub or some had already been bought over.

So my conclusion is to forget about this company and its bonus, you can probably make up the bonus loss back in your next increment.

markulous

LionelTeo wrote: »

Are you going onto the company directly or are you going to hired as being an outsource? This is very important, because there is little benefit being in an outsource company. The recruiter will absorb in 30% of your salary and let you left with peanuts. If you are going direct, then the direct company shoulder the payment to the recruiter and not cut into your salary, if the company is unable shoulder the payment to the recruiter and cut into your salary, this tells a lot about the budget problem the company your in has, and if you think in the long run, you would be at a disavantages, they already do not have enough month to give you your deserve pay. Do you think they can even give you a good increment and career progression?

I will be getting hired on directly in about a week. The next position, which I had touched on earlier, is almost double what I'm getting now. I really want to get to at least that position before I think about moving on. Even if 16.25 is underpaid, I don't have a ton of experience. If you subtract the year I volunteered at protonic.com doing remote tickets, I only have 7 months IT experience.

The next position will give me experience with servers, routers, and firewalls, which will allow me to either continue there if it works out, or branch off as a network admin.

When they renegotiate the contract with the client we are servicing, I'm going to try to get another raise since glassdoor says $18 is about average for a help desk position.

I'll have my Security+ in a little bit and have my Network+ and CCNA by the end of the year. I think if by around October or so it doesn't seem like I am not going to get promoted to that next position, then I'll leave.

FWIW, I like the people here, I definitely shine above my peers, and really don't have any issues with anything else. I don't want to keep bouncing from IT places every 3 months either.