what is difference ccnp and ccnp sec and ccnp voice compared to ccie route switch

itdaddy

hi guys just curious, dont you think i could get a job in network engineer with 3 ccnps vs 1 ccie in r/s? not to be disrespectful but does a ccie r/s have the skills a ccnp r/s, ccnp voice, and ccnp sec person would bring to table? I would think the ccie can do r/s only and the person who has 3 ccnps can do more and a company may want that? what are your guys thoiughts thanks..just wondering if i got ccnp and then ccie r/s what could it bring me?
If you look in most network engineering jobs they want a person who can do

wifi,
r/s
voice
securiy

to me as a minimum and can a ccie r/s do the same as 4 ccnps in that speciality?
just blows my mind how much they want but what can you guys give me as advice just wondering what you guys think? thank you

fredrikjj

itdaddy wrote: »

does a ccie r/s have the skills a ccnp r/s, ccnp voice, and ccnp sec person would bring to table?

It's not a good comparison because they cover different technologies. CCIE R/S overlaps with CCNP R/S (everything in CCNP is on the CCIE), but there's no voice and very little security in the CCIE R/S. For example, if you need someone who knows multicast, your 3xCCNP person is going to be useless, but if you need voice skills the CCIE R/S person is not going to have much to offer. Of course, this makes the unrealistic assumption that someone only knows what's on the exam blueprint, and nothing else. You can obviously know stuff even if you don't have a certification.

I heard Grego Ferro talk about having a 'T shaped' skill set on the Packetpushers podcast recently. His point was basically that a good engineer should have a certain area where she's particularly skilled, but that she also should be proficient in other areas. Using your example, that might be a person who has a CCIE in routing and switching, but also has a few CCNPs in various other tracks.

itdaddy

thanks fredrikjj good answer thanks i will listen to that podcast about the T skill set sounds good...makes sense to have a ccnp broad foundation and then narrow it ....i need to broaden my base big time ccnps here i come
thanks again i appreciate your advice

fredrikjj

I'd like to address this too.

If you look in most network engineering jobs they want a person who can do

wifi,
r/s
voice
securiy
...
just blows my mind how much they want

Reading job ads like that really annoyed me for a long time as well, but I've since come to terms with it because in reality, they could hire that person who is an expert in all aspects of networking. They just can't afford it most of the time. See how that reframes the entire situation? If a company is hiring for a 3 person team, they want 3 top notch experts with multiple CCIEs (or <insert other high level credentials>), but they'll settle for one guy who is good at r/s, one good voice guy and a good security guy. But, the team can't be entirely dependent on any one guy so they want some proficiency in the other areas as well in case someone gets sick or simply quits.

That's what I think anyway, based on no actual experience of how hiring managers think.

EMcCaleb

itdaddy wrote: »

hi guys just curious, dont you think i could get a job in network engineer with 3 ccnps vs 1 ccie in r/s? not to be disrespectful but does a ccie r/s have the skills a ccnp r/s, ccnp voice, and ccnp sec person would bring to table? I would think the ccie can do r/s only and the person who has 3 ccnps can do more and a company may want that? what are your guys thoiughts thanks..just wondering if i got ccnp and then ccie r/s what could it bring me?
If you look in most network engineering jobs they want a person who can do

wifi,
r/s
voice
securiy

to me as a minimum and can a ccie r/s do the same as 4 ccnps in that speciality?
just blows my mind how much they want but what can you guys give me as advice just wondering what you guys think? thank you

Having a CCIE R/S doesn't mean you don't have other expert level skills (It better not). What typically occurs is that once one acquires a CCIE of any sort you never again attempt any "professional" level certification -there just isn't enough juice for the squeeze. Personally, I have never known a seasoned CCIE R/S that didn't also have strong abilities within security, VoIP and often storage. In today's enterprise it's very difficult to separate these environments. You can't say "yea I'm a ccie r/s, but you better find a ccnp security to develop a NAC solution". Doesn't work that way.

And to take it a step forward, As a CCIE, CCNP, CCNA you have to understand there is a very very big world outside of Cisco. If you are a CCNP Security, does that mean you can't configure/design networks that leverage Palo Alto, Stonesoft, or Juniper Firewalls? What about application layer firewalls such as Imperva or IDS such as Fireeye? If all your CCNP Security means is you can configure, design and troubleshoot Cisco environments you're in for a world of hurt. And likewise, that CCIE R/S better be able to configure Juniper, Brocade and whichever other router may cross his/her path, including virtual routers such as quagga and vyos.

But more than configure these devices, there should be the ability (by all network professionals) to architect solutions. That is ultimately the benchmark of true expertise.

DoubleNNs

How does one become proficient in so many technologies? Being able to configure, interoperate, and troubleshoot Juniper, Palo Alto, Cisco, Brocade, and Storage solutions at a IE/NP levels sounds like more than just a challenge.

EMcCaleb

I believe that as we learn we strive to understand the technology and not simply a single vendors application. The RFCs are not written to any single vendor. So when you learn to configure BGP on a Cisco router, the idea of doing it on a Juniper should require a very short curve It basically becomes locating the knobs.

When you learn to configure one firewall, its not about knowing it like a script. It's about understanding what you're trying to accomplish. At that point the vendor becomes largely irrelevant. Yes, vendors implement HA differently, or have some other tweak that may differ. But the logic is the same.

I am in NO way trying to minimize the accomplishments of anyone who gets has multiple professional certifications. I am simply saying that these disciplines are not stove-piped.

SteveO86

In regards to the job, that really depends on the job market in your area, and more importantly what you want to learn and do.

Let's say someone has their CCIE: R/S, yes it is very focused on routing/switching but just because they have a CCIE:R/S and not a CCNP:S/W/V/DC does not mean they do not know how those other technologies work. I'm sure would have probably worked with those technologies sometime during their career. (unless they do work for such a large company and their position is very silo'ed to only route/switch.

Also keep in mind those other technologies can be a world of their own. Voice/Wireless/Security you can easily make a full time career out of just of those specialties.

(Remember at the end of the day these are just pieces of paper (except the CCIE of course) with a few letters on them)

The best thing you can do is follow the path that you are interested in. That keeps everything fresh to you and you won't have to force yourself (too much) to keep going.

networker050184

You can get a job as an engineer with either of those or none of them. I think you are thinking of this a bit too narrowly. By the time you get to the point where you need expert level knowledge in all those areas you are going to be getting hired on experience first and foremost anyway.

itdaddy

thanks guys. yeah I understand what you mean. I am only a CCNA and CCNA security. I have dones ome VOIP and some Security things and some wifi things but just going throough what 5-6 exams per ccnp wow just alot of specializied knowledge to test out and then possibly never apply them fully but I guess you are right they are a stepping stones really. So maybe it is best to get more of the T portion before the I portion hahahah thanks men you have really helped me focus on my T portion to really get breadth before I focus