MCSE - Never again!

SkipSkipolski

Hi all, Just wanted to share my views on the current MCSE.

So I have completed 70-410,411,412, & 413. The lack of official study guides is so infuriating, and any released guides have been of poor quality and poorly reviewed by most people who have bought them. This is in contrast to the MCITP 2008 study guides which were fantastically detailed and really good to learn from.

So I have winged through the MCSE so far with a mixture of CBT Nuggets Vids, learning from MCITP 2008 books, learning from Technet (very difficult to keep up), and general pupose books E.g. Server 2012 Inside-Out, System Center 2012 unleashed.

Now onto the last exam – Usual mix of trying to find information and guides that I think are along the lines of the set objectives & using CBT Nuggets… the usual unfortunate way of trying to limp through an MCSE 2012 exam, not really a great way to prepare. Booked my exam a month ago for Next Thursday (01/04), and discover that just days before the objectives have been updated and changed.

So I now am studying new objectives, with less than a week before the exam, Prometric won’t move the appointment without charging despite MS moving the goalposts, and I have no time available to even use a second shot if I do fail.

This is my first MCSE (though I did toy with the MCITP 2008 breifly but realized the MCSE 2012 was going to appear shortly). I understand Microsoft cannot get material out instantly for new exams straight away, but we’re well over a year into this syllabus being released and still have not got an official study guide.

This whole experience of doing an MCSE has been a joke, and I have done an A+, Server+ and a MCSA Win7 (lesser exam I know, but they were work objectives) in the time it’s taken me to limp through this MCSE!

This will be my last MCSE and potentially Microsoft exam ever. Recommend anyone who asks to work on Cisco exams or getting a degree/other IT qualifications.

Regards,
Angry IT worker looking to progress career

jso

I can't comment on the MCSE, but I feel burnt out with the server stream and may look at private cloud - if I do ever get around to it.

I thought the MCSA structure could be a little different. There is a lot of 'lets try and convince you to use this shiny feature' or 'what do you do in this rare situation'. Perhaps two solid core subjects with the important features (Hyper-V, AD, etc) and then an elective between security (DAC, IPSEC, VPN, DA), hard core powershell, or large AD environments - I would have picked powershell

BGraves

All I can say is...I feel your pain...
The server 2003 MCSE was my first and it was 6 exams supported by top notch training/study material.
Since then I feel like Microsoft has pushed more features and trivia on their exams while at the same time, providing poor training/study material.

I think maybe their goal really is more to drive people to look at an exam blueprint and them leverage their online "resources" like technet, MVA, or whatever else is out there....but I'm really tired of it.

MrAgent

OP keep in mind that if you want to keep your MCSE youll have to renew it every 3 years.

GLaDOS11

I agree 110%. I have been going through Microsoft exams for the past few months and a lot of their questions seem to be very specific situations that you would probably only face once in a lifetime, if ever. The lack of one specific study guide for a test is very frustrating.


The thing that frustrated me the most though is when I saw some questions from a CCNA study guide and it was so black and white. Here's the question, what's the answer? There was no "well, in a normal situation, I would do this but Microsoft would want me to do this"


To compare it to school, Cisco seems like a math class while Microsoft is like Philosophy. There's no debating the answer with Cisco, it is what it is. Microsoft seems like 40% of their test is completely subjective and not relevant to real life.

jmasterj206

I agree with you. I have only passed the 70-410, but I also recently made attempts at the 2008 exams. It really is trivia. The materials out there are terrible and the exam objectives are vague. I also see many questions that are way of of scope of the objectives. I think the thing with MS exams is that there is several ways to configure things such as UI, Powershell, or the command prompt and Microsoft expects you to know each one and the fine details of each. I feel your pain.

MSSoftie

If just getting your MCSE is your goal - jso is correct. There are many tracks from which to choose. With the recent R2 updates it has taken sometime for the books to catch up but they are coming. Those specialties not affected by the R2 changes have great material out there for you. I do think it will be May or June before the R2 updated books are available though.

alokin123

i hope you realise you still need to pass the 70-413 & 70-414 exams to be an MCSE. You didn't have the 70-414 on the list so not sure if you know.

I think MS seriously needs to bring in lab based exams as opposed to multi-guess question format exams.

I sat the and failed 70-413 twice (once before the r2 upgrade and then once with the r2 updates) and reading the questions and available answers was sometimes very confusing. Then i read this post and realise why MS exams are written so badly:

Microsoft is Trying NOT to Trick You: Question Clarity - Born to Learn - Born To Learn - Born to Learn

To add to this a lot of the questions said something along the lines "there may be more than once correct answer. Choose the best answer" with no real qualifications like "least administrative effort".

I think i also had more powershell on this exam than i had on the 70-417 exam.

MSSoftie

I agree with alokin - I like the idea of lab based testing. The goal of earning the certification should be to prove you know the material and not just that you read the books. Labs would prove you know how to accomplish the goal while answering questions doesn't always do they same. They make the books more necessary and more necessarily specific to the exam questions.

Also a good catch - Did you also pass the 70-414? If you haven't, you don't have the MCSE qualification yet.

GLaDOS11

The original post says that he's completed the 70-413 and he's scheduled the last exam (the 70-414). I guess I could be misunderstanding the OP but I believe he's saying that once he gets this MCSE, he's done with the MCSE program. I don't blame him.


I would love to see some labs brought in to these exams. Just tell me to set up a DNS forwarder that points to a specific IP address. Don't limit me to ONLY doing it through the GUI or ONLY through PowerShell...just tell me what needs to be done and let me do it.

Also, while I'm venting, the worst types of questions on these exams are the ones that show me a specific properties box and ask me which tab a certain setting is on. You know what would happen in the real world if I clicked on the "Sessions" tab and not on the "Environment" tab...? NOTHING! I would obviously realize, "oh this is the wrong tab, it must be the Environment tab!". It would set me back all of 2 seconds. I don't think I should be penalized for not knowing what Tab a specific option is on. To pass or fail someone based on that kind of stuff is kinda weird.

pramin

I did MCSE many moons ago - pre Win 2K. I left Microsoft for Cisco. I saw Microsoft as always overhauling their product and you have to relearn most if not everything. At least with Cisco the core knowledge stays and you are just adding on.

atari37

pramin wrote: »

I did MCSE many moons ago - pre Win 2K. I left Microsoft for Cisco. I saw Microsoft as always overhauling their product and you have to relearn most if not everything. At least with Cisco the core knowledge stays and you are just adding on.

Hmm...I know both Cisco IOS and everything Microsoft and I don't see any truth in your statement. If you know Windows 2000, Windows 2003 will be familiar to you, Windows 2008 will be familiar to you and Windows 2012 will also be familiar to you. You don't need to learn everything from the ground up, just the new technologies and things that might be done differently.

Cisco has several versions of the IOS software that needs to be learned, even if you know the basics of IOS. They have the small business software that run on their small business line and though it looks like IOS at first glance, it isn't. They have several versions and generations of IOS 12 and now IOS 15. Commands are not the same across the different versions. Then, there's the Nexus line and the ASA line as well and they also have slightly different IOS software.

My point is, all technologies change. Red Hat Linux, Fedora, Microsoft, Cisco, etc all change with every upgrade. It's up to us, the techies to decide on which technologies we like enough to invest our time in. I don't feel like Microsoft changes the upgrades enough for Sys Admins to have to relearn "most, if not everything".

BTW, I agree with everyone about the hands on/lab exams.

6502

atari37 wrote: »

If you know Windows 2000, Windows 2003 will be familiar to you, Windows 2008 will be familiar to you and Windows 2012 will also be familiar to you. You don't need to learn everything from the ground up, just the new technologies and things that might be done differently.

I can agree with that. I got my MCP with NT4, MCSE with 2k and used 2003 for years. I took a break from IT during the 2008 years and recently started on 2012. Things changed but they improved and got better. The foundation is still there. Right now I'm on 70-411 and I'm finding it mostly review and learning powershell commands.

I'm not sure what Microsoft should do about the exams. Right now I think they are pretty poor, as BGraves said "Trivia". Their study guides are terrible. Some hands on configuration or troubleshooting would be a good start. Maybe there shouldn't be so many exams for MCSE. Maybe they should include exams that focus on security or networking as requirements.

SamMerlotte

I'm in the same boat as the OP. All I have is my 70-414 left to pass, and I'll be done. I'm so not enthused about it. There aren't any accurate training materials available. The updated objectives sheet looks like a cluster. If it wasn't for the salary increase after obtaining the MCSE, I probably would push this off a few months. I really want that money, though....

woodworm

I feel the same, I have passed my MCSA 2012 + 70-413 and only have the 70-414 to (re)sit, though I feel like packing it in to be honest. The issue I have is that there is very little in the 414 that is relevant to my job (which I'm not planning on changing) so it's just a 'vanity' thing.

At the moment I feel the MCSA is enough and I will probably be happy with just doing the update exams every few years.

it2b

I am frustrated with the process as well. I've decided to hold off on the 70-413 until better material comes out. I've also heard there are questions on cloud topics (Azure and O365) on the new exams which I'm not sure how you could get hands on experience with if your environment is all on-prem.

Regarding the comments on including labs in the tests, Microsoft tried that with the 2008 tests and they were terrible. The first two times I took the 70-640 the labs crashed. I was reimbursed for the tests and they eventually scrapped the idea and went back to a multiple choice format.

izzyiz426

For all the people that have there MCSA, how long did it take you to study, and what material did you use? I am just graduating from college and im wondering wether it is even worth going for my MCSA 2012 or some other cert?

it2b

izzyiz426 wrote: »

For all the people that have there MCSA, how long did it take you to study, and what material did you use? I am just graduating from college and im wondering wether it is even worth going for my MCSA 2012 or some other cert?

It took me about six months to complete the MCSA. I used CBT Nuggets, the MS Press Books, and selftest practice tests primarily. I did take the official class for the 70-411 as well.

daviddws

I thought about going the MCSE route, but the whole process looks to be one big headache, so I will pass thank you very much.

J.Tot

I'm in the process of studying for the 70-410. I feel like I'm 80% ready to take the exam. I expect to take the test in the Next Month. After that I plan on knocking out an exam a month at a time.

Because I'm also doing VCP5 at the same time, and I'm taking the Stanly.edu vmware course It will probably be the end of the year before I get my MCSE

f0rgiv3n

I'll jump on the bandwagon. I did the MCSA 2003 and haven't touched a Microsoft exam since. Their questions are ridiculous and you have to answer them the "Microsoft" way. It's the least logical exam experience I've had through all of my certifications.